Pet Store puppies

[Journey]

Thanks Kathy!

 

Here's a copy of a PM sent to me, no names used......the reason I am posting it is the "breeder" - and yes, permission was given to post the story.

 

******************

 

I bought a pup from a pet store. Personally I just don't want to post it on the thread because I have allready got enough crap about buying her from the pet store. You are more then welcome to share the info in the tread just please don't include my name.

 

I bought a BC pup from "family pet" in Chesapeake Va. I was told that she was registed, with no health problems, etc.....

 

When I brought **** home and finally looked through my paperwork I noticed that infact she IS NOT registered! I was kinda upset that I was lied to but didn't want to take her back. kwim? anyway the info that was given to me is as follows....

 

Age- 10 weeks 2 days

from- Wagner's kennel watertown SD. bred by Hollie Kahnke

 

Thats all the info that was really given

 

upon the first vet visit 2 days later found out that she has a umbilical hernia, but other than that seemed to be in good health. Now 4 weeks later we have started to have a few issues with being timid, shy, etc....

[Ooky]

Anyways, I don't blame the people who purchase from pet stores. People are not born with this knowledge. Lots of what we learn we need to learn from life experiences. And unfortunately, many of those experiences are not good ones:(

 

I suppose I don't really blame people who really don't know any better, but I *do* blame people who have been told better and persist in insisting it's a perfectly reasonable choice, maybe even the best choice, to buy a puppy/kitten from a pet store. I am not talking about anyone here, but people I have personally known in my real life. Most recently my soon-to-be SIL, who has been talked to about (and very briefly out of) her deep desire to get a basset hound puppy from the local hideous mall pet store. DH, my brother, and I have all talked to her about it, and while sometimes she seems to be listening, mostly she just gets a bit sulky and calls us all snobs. Then talks about how cute the latest litter in the store is.

 

My brother got exasperated (not a great way to handle it) and went and got a mixed breed shelter pup to head off her desire to have one of those basset hound puppies. It's not the type of dog she wanted, and she mainly ignores the dog although SIL claims to love her. Meanwhile, SIL's parents went and bought an English bulldog puppy from a pet store. This dog has grown up to develop a really good sampling of multiple, serious physical and mental health issues, is aggressive, and apparently has terrible conformation for an EB anyway. And yet she still makes noise about getting one of those basset hound pups one day.

 

Sigh, give me patience - the wedding's in a couple of months I have already been warned from my parents to lay off the girl (and she brings it up a lot) for the sake of family unity.

 

Thanks for starting this thread, Journey. I think it's absolutely valuable.

[Lizmo]

Nice try, Karen. I thought it was a good idea to open up some discussion on the "breeders" that sell to brokers who supply pet stores. I didn't find it a loaded question nor offensive. *shrugs*

 

This is what I thought, too. Great thread, Karen and it's an iteresting thing to think about!

 

This is what I was asking about. We can't stop the millers if we don't "know" WHO they are!!

 

Exactly!

[JaderBug]

Ignorance I think is by far the biggest problem. I'm often amazed at the actions of people when they're getting dogs... maybe it's just a select few that actually do their homework- lots of it- and actually take time before making a big decision to bring a pet into their home.

 

Everyone makes mistakes. But in all honesty, I don't know how people can keep buying dogs from pet stores/puppy mills, ESPECIALLY with so much of the (bad) publicity they've gotten in the news in the recent past (good lord, Oprah did a few shows about them!). There's so much media attention about them anymore that I don't understand how people don't know about them, and know the truths about them. I know there's been a big story about them in Iowa lately, a couple bought a husky puppy from PetLand, a few days later it got parvo, and soon after died. They called the news and have made a big fuss about this company.

 

On another note (as far as ignorance and not wanting to listen to things)... I work in an animal behavior research lab. We focus a lot on behavior and animal welfare, etc. One of my co-workers has an aunt that gives a lot of money to organizations like PETA. My co-worker talked to her aunt and tried telling her that PETA is a bad organization, and if she wants to support animals, she should give money to the SPCA instead; she explained to her aunt how PETA really works and what they're really all about, some of the many bad things they do, etc. etc. etc. Her aunt just got all huffy-puffy and came back with this "Well, how do YOU know?!" response, my co-worker had to explain all the things that we do in the lab and how inaccurately PETA and H$U$ portrays animal agriculture, etc. After listening to someone who WORKS in this welfare field, her aunt ignores her and continues to give money to PETA.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that sometimes the ignorance can just be so overwhelming that people don't want to listen to reason or listen to the facts. Or admit their mistakes (as someone earlier mentioned). It's a shame that people don't do their homework better.

[OurBoys]

One of my co-workers has an aunt that gives a lot of money to organizations like PETA. My co-worker talked to her aunt and tried telling her that PETA is a bad organization, and if she wants to support animals, she should give money to the SPCA instead; she explained to her aunt how PETA really works and what they're really all about, some of the many bad things they do, etc. etc. etc. Her aunt just got all huffy-puffy and came back with this "Well, how do YOU know?!" response, my co-worker had to explain all the things that we do in the lab and how inaccurately PETA and H$U$ portrays animal agriculture, etc. After listening to someone who WORKS in this welfare field, her aunt ignores her and continues to give money to PETA.

My DH use to think PETA was great too. I tried talking to him but he wouldn't listen. Finally, I got fed up. I did a Google search and found a couple of online newspaper articles and emailed them to him at work. With him, it worked. Maybe your coworker can do the same???? If the aunt doesn't have a computer, maybe she can print them off???

 

Sorry, back to regular programming.......

[desertranger]

What does that mean?

 

 

Part of her problem was behavioral and part of it was physical. She was totally aggressive toward everyone except me and even then she would still have at me from time to time. Nor would she get along with Fuzzer. For that part nothing worked, crates, love, drugs, nothing. Physically she had joint problems almost from the time we got her. She seemed to be in a lot of pain all the time. Yet she was a tremendous jumper and responded well to training from me only. She went over a 6ft fence for some reason one afternoon and you don't want the picture of the rest. My mother had a Puli named Roman she had the same problem with. Roman had it lucky he was put to sleep.

 

It was after Chelsea that we started interviewing prospective breeders as hard as they interviewed us. Jin was purchased from a private party that had an oops litter. My daughter, Megwyn, told me that she got the pick of the litter because of the way she qualified herself and our family as a place for Jin to live. I don't think she would have taken Jin if that process had not been part of it. As a reminder Jin was a total surprise to me when I got home that day. I want's expecting to get another dog much less a BC for which I'm forever grateful.

[Sue R]

Warning Tangent!

 

Could some one explain what the farm subsidy to not farm is all about please? Why is the government paying people not to farm?

 

Sara

Sometimes, when so much of a particular commodity is being produced that prices are suppressed too low as there is just simply too much produced, the government will pay subsidies to farmers who take that land out of production. That reduces total production of that crop and allows prices to readjust upwards as supply is reduced and comes more into balance with demand.

[Caerus]

I don't know how helpful this is, but I did have a coworker who bought a maltese from the local Petland. When he received the dog's paperwork there was a paper that was supposed to have the breeder's info (and pedigree) on it, but it was blank. When he asked they said that it had gotten lost, but that they would look for it and mail it to him shortly. They never did procure the papers, though he did go back in and ask after them several times. The poor pup looked "healthy" to him when they bought it, but had to be euthanized 3 or 4 days later after a 3000 dollar vet bill. I forget what was wrong, but it was a sad story all around.

 

Though it doesn't pertain directly to BCs, it does show how incredibly unhealthy this poor maltese was after a stint at presumably a puppy-mill then pet-store. On the upside, he has since become virulently anti-pet store puppies and always told this story to people coming into Petco wanting to buy a puppy from us (or asking if we knew a pet-store who DID sell puppies, to which we always said the shelter was right down the road ).

 

That reminds me of a woman (with much more money than she knows what to do with) who purchased two kittens at $2500 each because they were the newest and the latest "rare" fashion cat breed.

 

Ugh, my family vacationed in London a few years back and visited Harrods department store while we were there. They had a cute little pet section that I would have liked very much (except for the prices!), except that they sold puppies and kittens in typical pet-store fashion. Not only were they obviously unhealthy and undersocialized but the prices were absolutely exorbitant. I really don't remember the exact prices but they were definitely all over 2000 pounds.

[Root Beer]

I would just bet there is some Amish breeders that actually take care of there dogs, believe it or not <---- course that is just assuming also I havent seen any Amish here with there dogs

 

Maybe.

 

The fact is, though, that I live in central Pa. and I know of NO Amish breeders with a reputation for caring for their dogs. That's not to say there aren't any, but if there are, they are keeping that fact a big secret.

 

I'm not bashing the Amish. They are great neighbors and they sell good produce and eggs and milk and baked goods.

 

I would never get a dog from an Amish breeder, though. The few Border Collies I've met from Amish breeders were an absolute mess. That's not to say that there aren't good ones - just that I don't know of a single one with a good reputation as a dog breeder. That's saying something.

[bcnewe2]

I bought my frist BC from a backyard breeder. I don't remember her name (to lazy to go look) but I know she's out of the bc business. She called me a few years after I bought Jazz and wondered if I wanted her mom. No thank you mam. She had decided to go into teacup poodles and get out of BC's, less space was needed for breeding.

 

I think this is a good topic. If those that have bought from a byb or pet store are here, then they are reading other posts. Once they get broke in and if they haven't run off then they will understand this post. But if someone comes on looking for a breeder or a place to buy a pup, they might find this post first and could stave off the horror of buying a poorly bred dog.

 

So hurt feeling aside, if you've made some mistakes with your first dog(s) purchase, get on the stick, let's out these byb/millers and help curb the madness. I would loved to have found this site before I bought Jazz. The deed is done, I don't regret buying her, but I sure do regret how poorly she was bred and that I was so clueless when i got her.

[sea4th]

I just scanned through this thread, so sorry if I repeat anything. I think the purpose of this thread is a great idea. I too want to know who is providing border collies to pet shops, and I'd love to see copies of pedigrees of pet shop pups posted.

 

As far as the Amish go, where I live now, there are a lot of Amish. I've gotten to know some and I like the ones I know. Would I place a dog with them ---- nope. One Amish guy, who came by to do some work for me, was interested in my dogs and asked if I bred them. I told him no, to which he replied that if I ever do, he'd be interested in one.

 

And mistakes don't have to be with your first dog. What's worse is if you know better and do it anyway --- like I did, several years ago, when I friend and I took a ride through Amish country in Ohio and saw a sign in front of an Amish farm -- border collie pups for sale. And we stopped. To make a long story short, I brought home Dolly who was one of the sweetest dogs you'd ever want to see, but also one of the most expensive --- Dolly was severely epileptic. She did live over 10 yrs. and died of a massive seizure. I miss her a lot, but would I ever do it again? No. But people make mistakes. Mistakes are part of a learning process, and while I learned that it wasn't a bright move to go to the Amish for a pup, Dolly did teach me a lot in her short time with me.

 

Down toward Central Ohio is Sugarcreek, Berlin, Amish country, tourist traps. Sugarcreek is where the livestock auction is that I posted about a few months back. Berlin, a small town with all sorts of craft and gift shops with signs like "Amish made crafts. Amish made quilts", now has a new business --- a pet store on the main drag with a sign something like "puppies --- farm raised" (kind of like their vegetables?), "Amish raised pups" (as though that would make them as good as their quilts?) "Country raised puppies".

 

One time I was waiting for a friend to come out of the bulk food store in Sugarcreek when a pick up parked along side of me. There was a box with 4 Schipperke pups in there. People were gushing over them --- and they were cute, but the guy said he got them from a breeder in his area and G-d knows what the fate of those pups was, but like anything else, dogs are a cash crop, bred and raised to be sold individually or by the entire litter.

 

There is nothing aesthetic about the commercial side of being Amish. It's pretty cut and dried, and the bottom line is $$$.

 

Dolly:

[Jack & Co.]

That is very disturbing, Vicki.

[Jumpin Boots]

I guess changing people's perception as to where they should purchase a pet puppy from is part of the uphill battle. Most arn't aware of possible health problems until after they bring their little pride and joy home, some not even then. In many cases puppies are impulse purchases, how do you change that? Hey, how about a 5 day waiting period with a requirement that they research their purchase and Federal Background Checks? The background checks will stop a bunch of people from buying... ...I'm joking...

 

I think the impulse purchase of dogs and cats is one of the biggest issues. How often do we have a new member join these boards saying, 'I just bought this pup, it's so cute, what do you all think.' Versus, 'I'm thinking about buying this pup, it's so cute, what do you all think.' And in my opinion this isn't just a border collie thing, I blame the majority of 10-24 month old dogs and cats sitting in rescues and shelters across America on this issue and the rediculous number of young animals being 're-homed' on craigslist. People, in general, just don't think about the long term and by long term I mean the next month. I am by no means saying that circumstances don't change and that there are good people who have to give up their pets for understandable reasons, but I'm sick of hearing the 'we decided to have a baby,' or 'I don't have time to invest in training' or 'I'm a renter and moving and my new apartment doesn't allow pets.' Bad planning on your part, does not require an emergency on mine. Unfortunately for pets this is not true. Both of our bc's most likely came from this sort of situation, given the age (10 months) that we rescued them at. They were no longer cute, fluffy pups, they were gangly, hyper, obnoxious teenager, well still cute and fluffy in our eyes.

 

Anyway, I guess I think that Deb's joking comment about a waiting period should be considered. All the rescues and shelters I know of in our area typically require one. You go in, find a pet you love, fill out an adoption sheet (including long term and training plan), depending on the animal they may be collecting applications or you may be approved immediately, an interview is held, and typically you pick the animal up 3-5 days later at a vets office.

 

I definately think the spreading of puppy-miller's names is a good thing, but the difficult part in that is that the tricky one's don't sell the pups. In January we were directly involved in the raidings of 2 puppy mills. In the Sunberg's case we were told there were appx. 150 small dogs on their property, ha, when we arrived there were appx. 450 small dogs. The tricky part comes into play b/c their daughters who lived in another county and who owned multiple properties sold the dogs. Apparently the daughters had smaller breeding operations, but then had a very nice house where they would sell the pups and would only have 1 or 2 litters there at a time, with the dams and sires present. So even people that were going in with good intentions, asking all the right questions and did a fair amount of research would have no clue what they were getting themselves into...ugh.

[Riley-dog]

I'll admit, with shame, that I got Riley from a pet store. I could list all of my excuses, but they're just that, excuses. I knew better. I went to look at the shelter dogs. I couldn't get one since I was at the end of my lease in a place that didn't allow dogs (they contacted landlords). I didn't/don't have a fenced-in yard. Again, an excuse. I'm sure the right rescue would have asked enough questions to determine that I'd be a responsible owner, or maybe they'd determine that I wasn't. I was still in college, moving over the summer and had no stability. Who would have given me a dog? I should have waited until I'd moved and checked out the shelters in my new town, it would have been the responsible thing to do.

 

I just went to "pet the puppies". I went down to the pet store in town (Wild Side Pets, State College, PA) regularly because they don't have separate kennels for the puppies. You can just sit in the middle of the puppy room and play with all of them crawling all over. I'd been checking the papers for BCs and had planned to visit a litter of mixed pups. I loved the obedience and loyalty of the border collies I'd seen at horse expos and the BC mix that followed the farm hand around. I didn't know about the herding/conformation war. I wanted a puppy so I could socialize and train it correctly, or so I rationalized. I'd grown up with Labradors who weren't the most intelligent and I convinced myself that I wouldn't be able to properly train and socialize a dog with horses if it wasn't raised with them.

 

There were three puppies there. A BC, a rough collie and something small that was passed out in the crate they all shared for sleeping. The store had a reputation for buying local home-bred litters. The single BC was the last of four in the litter that they had. I'm not sure what their sources actually are.

 

The two collies were wrestling with the rough collie barking and growling and the BC silent. He was 12 weeks old, on sale, and the minimal white that I'd been vainly daydreaming about. I played with him for about an hour and carried him around the store for 15 minutes while he stayed relaxed in my arms and licked my chin. It was done. I put him on hold for 24 hours so I could make sure my roommate was agreeable, and mull over my decision (I know I'm impulsive) and I came back for him the next day.

 

Sure it was a mistake in terms of the fact that I supported the machine, but knowing the dog that he became I would not change a thing. I'm sure no matter what dog I eventually got it would have been a fine companion... but there will never be another Riley. I can't imagine making it through some of the low points of my life without him. We've moved around nearly a dozen times since then. We still have no stability and far from the ideal home for any dog, particularly a high energy breed, but he is happy, well-adjusted, and ever my constant companion. He is my canine soul mate.

 

Yes I am ashamed of our beginnings, but I am eternally proud of the incredible animal that he is.

 

[Sue R]

Yes I am ashamed of our beginnings, but I am eternally proud of the incredible animal that he is.

Good for you, and good for Riley. You've both come a long, long way.

[Tommy Coyote]

I think the impulse purchase of dogs and cats is one of the biggest issues. How often do we have a new member join these boards saying, 'I just bought this pup, it's so cute, what do you all think.' Versus, 'I'm thinking about buying this pup, it's so cute, what do you all think.' And in my opinion this isn't just a border collie thing, I blame the majority of 10-24 month old dogs and cats sitting in rescues and shelters across America on this issue and the rediculous number of young animals being 're-homed' on craigslist. People, in general, just don't think about the long term and by long term I mean the next month. I am by no means saying that circumstances don't change and that there are good people who have to give up their pets for understandable reasons, but I'm sick of hearing the 'we decided to have a baby,' or 'I don't have time to invest in training' or 'I'm a renter and moving and my new apartment doesn't allow pets.' Bad planning on your part, does not require an emergency on mine. Unfortunately for pets this is not true. Both of our bc's most likely came from this sort of situation, given the age (10 months) that we rescued them at. They were no longer cute, fluffy pups, they were gangly, hyper, obnoxious teenager, well still cute and fluffy in our eyes.

 

Anyway, I guess I think that Deb's joking comment about a waiting period should be considered. All the rescues and shelters I know of in our area typically require one. You go in, find a pet you love, fill out an adoption sheet (including long term and training plan), depending on the animal they may be collecting applications or you may be approved immediately, an interview is held, and typically you pick the animal up 3-5 days later at a vets office.

 

I definately think the spreading of puppy-miller's names is a good thing, but the difficult part in that is that the tricky one's don't sell the pups. In January we were directly involved in the raidings of 2 puppy mills. In the Sunberg's case we were told there were appx. 150 small dogs on their property, ha, when we arrived there were appx. 450 small dogs. The tricky part comes into play b/c their daughters who lived in another county and who owned multiple properties sold the dogs. Apparently the daughters had smaller breeding operations, but then had a very nice house where they would sell the pups and would only have 1 or 2 litters there at a time, with the dams and sires present. So even people that were going in with good intentions, asking all the right questions and did a fair amount of research would have no clue what they were getting themselves into...ugh.

Ah. What a great story. Some things are just meant to be. I really hate the puppy mills but I still feel really bad for all the little guys caught in the middle. I'm glad Rily got a really wonderful home.

[DeltaBluez Tess]

You shouldn't be ashamed. It was meant to be. If you knew what you know now, you wouldn't have gotten him. But now, you know differently and you and Riley have each other.

 

Tess, my top Open dog...I bought her from a low life BYB for $100 to save her from being shot. That was a pity buy and look where we are at now. Now, knowing what I do now, I wouldn't have gotten her...so it was meant to be.

 

We all have mistakes....it's what you learn and grow from them is important.

 

Whatever you think, you should not be ashamed.

 

Diane~

[Soda-pop]

Question regarding Soda's "pedigree": Anyone know or heard of Kerry Trotter/Trottier of ND? She's the only person I haven't been able to find out anything on. I'm just curious about where she is in this whole pet store mismosh.

[Jumpin Boots]

Yes I am ashamed of our beginnings, but I am eternally proud of the incredible animal that he is.

 

You should not be ashamed, from the sounds of it you entered your relationship with Riley knowing that it was not ideal circumstances and was going to be difficult. To me, that right there is planning ahead. And I'm sure over the years you have made sacrifies that maybe you wouldn't have to made had he not been in your life. I was a renter with 3 dogs, let me tell you it was about impossible to find living arrangements. But not completely impossible. I by no means think there is an issue or you should feel guilty for having Riley, it is the people who don't plan ahead and as soon as things get tough the dog or cat is the first on to go that are the issue with me. Often those people turn around and 'replace' that animal once things are ok again, I personally don't know how you ever replace an animal, but anyway.

 

It really sounds like you have done right by Riley and that he has been there for you in tough times, wish there were more dog owners out there like you.

[kaos]

Thanks Sue R. It seems like a strange situation though. Why wouldn't the government instead pay to help them get set up in a niche market that needs more supply? To have the land standing empty and not producing is illogical when there are other crops to be had. Am I missing something pertinent?

 

Sara

[JaderBug]

So, yesterday I received an e-mail from a woman looking for a BC puppy between 8 and 12 weeks old, she said she wanted to get involved with agility. She also said she'd never had any experience with a BC before. So, I sent her a couple of e-mail addresses/websites for some places she could look into getting a pup if she wanted to, and a link to this board to learn as much as she could.

 

Then, last night, I got an e-mail back from her saying thanks for all the links and such, but she was looking through the paper and found a woman who had three BC litters on the ground right now and happily stated that she was going to go today to pick out a 10-week old female. Needless to say when she said that my heart sank... I promptly e-mailed her back and explained that while I didn't know if it was a true puppy mill, that having three litters at once (I can't imagine how many she has throughout a year!) was not an indicator of a responsible breeder. I explained how a lot of puppy mills/high-volume breeders can produce puppies with bacterial/viral diseases (including parvo) and the puppies can often times get hip dysplasia, which would keep her from participating in agility.

 

I said that I didn't know who she was and I didn't want to tell her what to do, but I advised her to take her time in looking for a pup, and that she would be happier in the long run if she did.

 

I haven't heard back from her and I don't know if I will, but it just goes to show you the ignorance out there.

[Beach BCs]

That's not just ignorance. That's willful ignorance. I firmly believe that some people don't want to know better. It's easier for them to go through life with their blinders on.

[BayouBC]

Pith was originally from a pet store, but bounced a couple of times before coming to me as a 12 week old puppy. His papers are in one of the boxes I've yet to unpack from the move, so I'll only give you the basic information that I remember.

 

pet store: Just Puppies

location: Laurel, MD

registration: ABCA

breeder location: Missouri

 

Again, I unfortunately don't have it handy, but probably 2-3 years ago someone had posted on the BC rescue board about a website that you could plug in all of the pet store information and puppy information, and they could track back to the breeder or puppy mill and give you some information about them. As it so happens, Pith didn't come from a puppy mill. Instead he came from a farmer that allowed their working dogs to have a litter each year. He'd sell puppies locally and then any "left-overs" would go to the pet stores. So not the worst of the worst origins, but not good.

 

The pet store he came from sold exclusively puppies (hence the name) and some limited supplies aimed at the new puppy owners. It happened to be right next to my bank, so I'd stop in every other week when I deposited my paycheck and play with the puppies. I felt bad for them, so I figured I was at least one "normal" person that would come play with them every so often. I'd seen Pith in the store and played with both him and his sister. I don't know if there were more than just the two originally or not (I still wonder what happened to his sister). Long story short, border collies don't sell well in Laurel, MD pet stores, so after a couple of weeks, they dropped the price to rock bottom and someone bought him as the "cheap puppy" - $100 versus the ones $800+. Pith was high drive, even for a BC puppy, so, surprise, surprise, he didn't fit in the home. He moved to two other homes before being surrendered to the vet I worked for (if you can't take him, we'll just have to take him to the shelter). He'd left the dam at about 6 weeks of age, was bought at about 8 weeks old, and came to the vet at about 12 weeks. Talk about a lot of traveling, home changes, and stress for a young puppy.

 

Fast forward over the next 6 years: Pith started showing signs of serious fear aggression at about 10 months of age, which got progressively worse until, after a lot of work, it got better to the point of being mostly managable (it will never be "fixed"); Pith had his first seizure at ~18 months old and was diagnosed as an Idiopathic Epileptic about a month later after continued seizures; Pith is extremely and increasingly sound sensitive - thunder started when he was about 2.5 yeards, gunshots and fireworks just about 7-8 months ago.

 

There are a number of lessons to be learned from Pith, but the big two (at least in my head) are #1: Just because a puppy is ABCA registered doesn't mean the puppy store is reputable. They can still get ABCA puppies, though I'm sure these days BC pups are more likely to be AKC or CKC or whatever else at a pet store. #2: The puppy can look and seem perfectly happy, normal, and healthy for a while. There is obviously something wrong in the way Pith's brain is "wired". There are just way too many things "wrong" with him that are neurologically based. I love him to death, and he's the one that started me on the Border Collie road, so I'd never, ever change my mind about keeping him. BUT he's damned lucky he ended up with me, because most people wouldn't have stuck with him. The epilepsy and sound sensitivity are one thing. The fear aggression is a whole 'nother story.

[martySQ]

'Thanks Sue R. It seems like a strange situation though. Why wouldn't the government instead pay to help them get set up in a niche market that needs more supply? To have the land standing empty and not producing is illogical when there are other crops to be had. Am I missing something pertinent?

 

Sara '

 

No, you're not missing anything. goverment messin in business again is all...just like buying up the exra milk and giving it away free so the dairy industry doesn't go broke. Or buying the wheat up from the farmers and selling it overseas cheap, just to keep the farmers from going broke. It doesn't encourage thinking outside the box or exploring new ideas like subscription vegetable service...oh wait, that is far more work than the average farmer wants to do if all he is used to doing is planting wheat...which is far more predictable, and he doesn't have to worry so much about the market.... sorry ....wrong board to vent my thoughts on the matter...