Dog Limits

[Katelynn & Gang]

So I know a lot of us have dogs, probably 3 or more.

 

I for one own three and my mother owns three. I've only recently just moved out over the last two or so years, leaving my dogs with her and taking them on and off when I can. Together, we have two 11 years old, a seven year old, two that are about five and a two year old. All six of these dogs have been through obedience and are well behaved. Four of the six do or have worked livestock in their lives. These dogs do everything or have; agility, flyball, rally, obedience, showmanship (4H) and as just stated for the four, work livestock. You can just walk into my mothers living room and see that there are trophies galore that both I and my sister have won with five out of the six dogs (one never did 4H).

 

To add to our six, my mom usually has at least one rescue on and off. I'm always getting dogs dropped on my door step, so I usually have one to three fosters that live with me (not her) but we do go visit her.

 

We were just recently (last week) notified that we are in violation of our cities limit on dogs, dogs that we've owned for years at the same house (all six dogs have lived their whole lives at this residents). We didn't know there was a limit until we received this in the mail with a request that we remove three of the six dogs. We have also never had any violations prior to this, no noise complains (one did come with the limit violation, of coarse), no dog bites, not a thing.

 

I am just wondering if anyone else has had this happen and what they did. I have now heard of people battling with the city to keep their dogs but I am wondering if anyone has done it personally. Has anyone ever won this sort of battle?

 

I by far am not getting rid of any of the dogs, none of them are in danger unless I suddenly have to move home, in which case I'd be calling my lawyer.

 

They have all been there for five or more years (besides the two year old) and have always been licenses with the county with the same address without question or hesitation. I just do not see how they can just now say we are in violation when we were obviously five and two years ago and no one said a thing to us about dog limits as we registered with the county.

 

Thanks.

 

Katelynn

[sea4th]

I've been involved in dog limit ordinance issues several times, mostly when it was being tossed about and presented to different levels of city committees -- before it's come to my door step.

 

It's odd that you are just now finding out about it. Do you have any idea what prompted this notice? A neighbor (s)? The current "climate" in your area?

 

Have you seen a copy of the law? I think there is a good chance you might be able to be grandfathered in, but you need to find out what exactly you're fighting -- or who --- and that is one thing I would not go down without --- a fight.

 

If push comes to shove, public attention, media scrutiny. React with outrage and not with your hat in your hands, but you need to find out who your enemy is.

 

Vicki

 

 

So I know a lot of us have dogs, probably 3 or more.

 

I for one own three and my mother owns three. I've only recently just moved out over the last two or so years, leaving my dogs with her and taking them on and off when I can. Together, we have two 11 years old, a seven year old, two that are about five and a two year old. All six of these dogs have been through obedience and are well behaved. Four of the six do or have worked livestock in their lives. These dogs do everything or have; agility, flyball, rally, obedience, showmanship (4H) and as just stated for the four, work livestock. You can just walk into my mothers living room and see that there are trophies galore that both I and my sister have won with five out of the six dogs (one never did 4H).

 

To add to our six, my mom usually has at least one rescue on and off. I'm always getting dogs dropped on my door step, so I usually have one to three fosters that live with me (not her) but we do go visit her.

 

We were just recently (last week) notified that we are in violation of our cities limit on dogs, dogs that we've owned for years at the same house (all six dogs have lived their whole lives at this residents). We didn't know there was a limit until we received this in the mail with a request that we remove three of the six dogs. We have also never had any violations prior to this, no noise complains (one did come with the limit violation, of coarse), no dog bites, not a thing.

 

I am just wondering if anyone else has had this happen and what they did. I have now heard of people battling with the city to keep their dogs but I am wondering if anyone has done it personally. Has anyone ever won this sort of battle?

 

I by far am not getting rid of any of the dogs, none of them are in danger unless I suddenly have to move home, in which case I'd be calling my lawyer.

 

They have all been there for five or more years (besides the two year old) and have always been licenses with the county with the same address without question or hesitation. I just do not see how they can just now say we are in violation when we were obviously five and two years ago and no one said a thing to us about dog limits as we registered with the county.

 

Thanks.

 

Katelynn

[sea4th]

These people have been around for a while. Good place for some information gathering in preparation for a battle with the powers that be --- who, BTW, are not the "Great and Powerful Wizard of Oz" behind the curtains.

 

http://www.adoa.org/

 

If I can think of anything else, I'll let you know. I'm at work right now and have to go.

[desertranger]

I have a similar problem. Somebody filed a complaint. That's the only time anyone who works for a city gets off their ass to actually do any work. Someone filed a complaint against me years ago and I've been having to deal with it since then. The idiot who said you can't fight city hall is wrong. Just bear with it and know we're on your side.

 

Legally there may be a variance in the law that would allow you more dogs. Whatever it is make them fight for it because the more money they spend on you the more you have to complain about their wasting it. The economics are simple. It costs the city more to go after you than it does for you to defend yourself by just writing letters in return. Just make it a drain on their resources. Eventually hits a point where you can complain to the city council. I've been doing that for years now.

 

Best of luck.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

We rented from a lady who, bless her heart, occasionally reminded us of our three pet limit. I'm rather ashamed to say we were purposely deceptive to her - I wouldn't do it today. I can only plead young-and-stupid-dom. Anyway, she was very elderly and we quickly realized that she could not tell one Border Collie from another. We could literally have as many black and white Border Collies as we wanted, as long as none of them were ever out with any of the others. We had three of our own, plus two foster dogs at any time. The other two pets were Maggie (red mutt) and a cat.

 

On the other hand, this plunged me very firmly into many branches of structured training, because of course that limited the time any of them could spend outside. So I made sure it was high quality time and their little brains were very exercised as well as bodies, plus we piled everyone into the Dodge Colt ( ) and went for as many outside activities as we could find.

 

Anyway, no real advice there. Except that, with our landlady, we did get her to raise the limit by demonstrating that Ben was a "fully trained show dog" with titles - showing her his CGC, FD (lol), and demonstrating all his training. That may not help with city regs but it will help with neighbors who might be less inclined to turn in the crazy people with all the dogs.

 

It's really funny now being where I am. I've always felt just a little nervous about my dog pack numbers - but my neighbors to the one side have three dogs and only stop there because the younger kids are too little to ask for dogs yet - plus they have a veritable zoo of critters. On the other side, there's six dogs, four of which are "inside."

 

I'm actually kind of admired because all my dogs come when called. My one neighbor said I looked like the Dog Whisperer walking around with all my dogs tagging along. Um, okay.

 

It's nice to live where they understand. Should I be worried that it's because it's redneck land?

[Journey]

Find the ordinance and see when it went into effect - read it. You may be grandfathered in depending upon the time frame. If not be prepared to hold your ground as you have documentation of how long the dogs have been there and the fact nothing was said/done prior to this. Sounds like a po'd neighbor bearing a grudge.

[Jumpin Boots]

I would look into when the limit number was brought into effect, if you owned any or all of your dogs prior to it being passed, then they should be grandfathered in. If you are on good terms I would talk to your neighbors and voice your issue to them and find out if they would sign a petition that your animals are a problem, if you have to go to the city council. Also are you guys fostering on your own or through a rescue. In our experience often the ACO will be very understanding about fosters that push you over the limit, if you work with an actual organization. Best of luck!

[Debbie Meier]

We were served notice 2 years ago about exceeding out states limits, luckily we could cure by obtaining a state kennel license, I have no doubt that the state would have eventually had our exessive number issue remedied along with imposing fines from the time of the notice until the problem was remedied. Here in Iowa, even in the rural parts any more then 3 unaltered dogs require a license, they don't care about the altered ones, but the local juristictions are cracking down on the unaltered. As far as grandfathing, it is my understanding that if the dogs were there before the law was passed you may have hope, but any dog aquired after the date of the law may not be grandfathered. Lack of knowledge of a law is typically no grounds for a grandfather clause, in our case we did not know that we were over limit or that there was a law, basically the noticed given us was our notice to our Right to Cure.

 

I'd be approaching your situation from two fronts, first checking to see when the laws were imposed to see if grandfathering is an option, along with investigating to determine if others are getting exemptions, or if their fight against the city is working or fell short. You already have been served notice, they know you are in violation so you may as well see if others are in the same boat as you to determine if they succeeded in keeping their numbers. The second is to see if there are any boarding kennels, rescues or breeders in your juristiction to determine what their limits are and what type of licensing they need. You may be able to just license as a rescue or a boarding kennel and exempt yourselves that way, though you may be subject to inspections along with care and housing restrictions. Life as a licensed kennel is way different then just keeping your dogs as pets, but it can allow you to keep your numbers along with allowing your mother to continue to rescue.

 

I would'nt be surprised to hear of more people getting served notice, the pressure is pretty high right now trying to get the pet population down and shedding light on all the current laws that are not being enforced. We had an inspection a few weeks back, the inspector mentioned getting calls from people alerting her of dog owners that were in violation, even being as bold as to drive into your driveway to perform their own headcount and judge your enclosures.

 

Good luck to you, I hope you can get it worked out.

 

Deb

[Brad]

I just looked up my limits, I can keep 4 dogs without a kennel license. This is on my property, not just my quarters. The issue is I have a rental suite with tenants that own two dogs, I have 2, with a 3rd coming in the fall. I suppose I'll have to investigate a kennel license.

[Debbie Meier]

I just looked up my limits, I can keep 4 dogs without a kennel license. This is on my property, not just my quarters. The issue is I have a rental suite with tenants that own two dogs, I have 2, with a 3rd coming in the fall. I suppose I'll have to investigate a kennel license.

 

Brad, has your property been zoned as a rental property? If so, how do apartment complexes in your area get around the dog limit or are they on a "No Pet" policy. If your not zoned as a rental property (provided that your juristiction has the requirement for zoning for rentals) I would be careful about the reason you state for trying to secure a kennel license, it could open a can of worms.

 

Deb

[Brad]

Brad, has your property been zoned as a rental property? If so, how do apartment complexes in your area get around the dog limit or are they on a "No Pet" policy. If your not zoned as a rental property (provided that your juristiction has the requirement for zoning for rentals) I would be careful about the reason you state for trying to secure a kennel license, it could open a can of worms.

 

Deb

 

Deb, I believe apartment units would be considered their own "parcel" (the wording for property). On top of that, each building would have additional by-laws. For my property, it's zoned as single family dwelling, but with rental availability near 0% in my town, the municipality has allowed permitting of normally illegal suites. So while I pay an annual fee to have a suite, I don't get any perks from the city (extra garbage pickup, etc). So I don't think I'd have an argument about 2 seperate residences, since their both on the same "parcel". The suite is licensed though, so approaching the city wouldn't cause me more trouble. Although, doing the "right thing" never works out well for me, so perhaps I'll just wait for them to come to me Luckily, my neoghbours all seem good with my dogs, so hopefully nobody points me out to the city!

[Debbie Meier]

Although, doing the "right thing" never works out well for me, so perhaps I'll just wait for them to come to me Luckily, my neoghbours all seem good with my dogs, so hopefully nobody points me out to the city!

 

It's such a frustrating thing when laws put good normal law abiding citizens on the wrong side of the tracks It would be so much easier if they would disban all the number related restrictions and base it on care and custody guidelines, but I suppose that would require more judgement calls. Way easier to say X number, end of story.

 

Personally I don't care is someone wants to have more dogs then what they are legally allowed to have, but I also think it would be nice that they knew they were in violation so that they don't end up jepordizing their way of living, I wish someone had taken us aside to warn us, we first wouldn't have taken in as many as we did and we would have been more careful as to who we shared our dog stories with. Now when someone asks me how many dogs we have, I just say "To many" and leave it at that, prior to knowledge of the law I didn't think about it and would have just answered with our actual or near actual number.

 

Deb

[northborderrookie]

If you have been licensing all your dogs in the past, I would first check the bi law on what the dog limit is, and if you are over the number then check when either the new number /or a bi law limiting the number of dogs came in to effect. if you are over and the bi law has been in effect for a while (as in since before you have been licening all your dogs) I would question the city on why suddenly I was being suddenly served notice when for the past however many years they would have been fully aware of the number of dogs you had as they were issuing the licenses (and I would imagine happily taking your money for it) Then check to see if you are grandfathered with your original number. If you take in Fosters you might be able to apply for a variance that would allow you those extra’s on a temporary basis. Worst case you might have to look at getting a kennel license.

 

Kara Hewitt

[bcnewe2]

I don't have anything to add Katelynn but I sure feel for you.

Lots of good ideas thrown out there, lets hope something helps.

I think this calls for borad mojo....here's mine.

 

Keep us posted.

[Gary M]

I know we are over our county limit, but because of the remoteness of our location it will hopefully never be an issue.

 

I have never understood these limits based on quantity, not quality. We have always provided excellent care for our four legged charges, probably better than a good number of people do for their kids. Legally we could have dozens of children (heaven forbid), but more than 3 pet animals is verboten.

 

I wish I had the money to challenge this in court on the basis of restrictions on my rights to own property (which our pets are in the eyes of the law) and the taking of property without just compensation. Given our gooberment's past history of ignoring the Constitution, of denying explictly cited rights and declaring rights where none exist, I am sure I would lose, but would love the battle none the less.

[sea4th]

My arguments in the past have been that one ill-kept dog is worse than several who are well kept, and I provided documentation of examples in my own neighborhood. I never said anything without having something to back up my words.

 

I know we are over our county limit, but because of the remoteness of our location it will hopefully never be an issue.

 

I have never understood these limits based on quantity, not quality. We have always provided excellent care for our four legged charges, probably better than a good number of people do for their kids. Legally we could have dozens of children (heaven forbid), but more than 3 pet animals is verboten.

 

I wish I had the money to challenge this in court on the basis of restrictions on my rights to own property (which our pets are in the eyes of the law) and the taking of property without just compensation. Given our gooberment's past history of ignoring the Constitution, of denying explictly cited rights and declaring rights where none exist, I am sure I would lose, but would love the battle none the less.

[Lewie'sMom]

After reading this thread yesterday I called my city just for grins and giggles. Well, I wasn't laughing when I hung up from the call.

 

Seems my quiet rural community has a limit of THREE pets! ?!!!THREE!!!? Are you kidding me?

I asked what I'd have to do to have more than three and I was told I'd have to obtain

a kennel license but the city doesn't issue kennel licenses. Huh?

 

I have two cats and one dog and am looking to acquire another dog soon. Suffice it to say, I'm gonna become a rebel and a law breaker someday.

[powerfulgazelle]

After my earlier post about the house across the street and its kennel of SomethingDoodles, I have been trying to find the correct answer for my city (which may be quite different from the county's answer...) and have been told more than once that cats don't count as "pets", they have some special status as a semi wild animal here...

[Wendy V]

I don't buy dog licences because I don't want the city to know how many dogs I own. my neighbors are tolerant but I put a lot of effort into keeping them quiet. Rotating backyard shifts are a must.

[SS Cressa]

I been trying to look into dog limits in my area and have yet found anything... Someone told me my area has a 4 pet limit but I have yet to find anything to back it up.

 

What I have found is at least 2 lawsuits that overturn the pet limit.

Here are the cases I found:

 

http://www.nokillnow.com/petlimitlawunconst.htm

 

http://www.canismajor.com/dog/minnlaw1.html

 

Here is another website that help argue why pet limits are wrong.

http://www.naiaonline.org/articles/archives/limitlaws.htm

 

Maybe it just me but I wouldn't go the "registering as a kennel" route because that would mean allowing a strange person into your home (i believe) yearly to be inspected. Maybe I am wrong but that is just my impression what happens.

 

pa Sorry for mispellings

[2 Devils]

My area has a limit dependent on square footage of your yard. I have an acre of land am allowed 4 dogs. My neighbors have 3 acres and are allowed more dogs. My neighbors had 5 dogs, 2 ponies and raised guinea pigs (were breeders) but not sure the county actually knew everything they kept but since the guy is a deputy sheriff I would assume they were honest about the animals.

 

Sometimes it does pay to live in the country. I don't like having a dog limit and my dogs are not registered with the county. My dogs are well taken care of and that should be taken into account when cities/counties are imposing limits.

[Sasha's Mom]

Our first home was in a suburb that had pet limits: 2 cats + 2 dogs. However, you could apply for a special extended license or something to extend the limit. It wasn't much, but entailed the city getting approval from the neighbors. Since ours were always well mannered, it wasn't difficult getting the ok for #3.

 

Our second home, well, no one ever asked, and even with a multitude of fosters, there is something to be said about having all black and white dogs. I had a few fosters who were almost identical to my existing dogs, to the point that I mistook some of them myself if I only caught a quick glance.

 

Our present home is out in the country. My next door neighbor has a horse and down the street are a herd of cattle. In the front yard. (Zoe is intrigued by these massive black things. It's the only time I've ever seen her truly crouch. Not that I let her try anything, nor did they give her a second thought.) We are fully fenced, and I honestly hadn't bothered to check into a pet limit. I believe our neighborhood limits goats only.

 

Good luck!

[Liz P]

I never did look for housing in the neighboring town because I know they have a 2 dog limit. Right now I am moving to an area that is rumored to have a 2 dog limit, but I can't find any official information. If it is true then I am willing to live further out in the country and commute to work. I want a lot of land anyway.

 

I have found that people can't seem to tell BCs apart. Even people who know Freya and Sage mistake them for one another all the time. I don't know why, since Freya is a split face and Sage has an all white face.

[Laurelin]

We have a three pet limit here. *cough* We're right outside of the city limits, so the city limit of two doesn't apply but our HOA has a limit of three dogs or cats. It's good except our next door neighbors are the presidents and they're 'those kinds of neighbors' that nit pick everything. If push comes to shove I can say we're watching a couple paps for the breeder or that since I'm just visiting and moving back to school soon, a few dogs could be mine and not my fathers. Or I could just point out everyone else violating the HOA rules.

 

Back when we had two shelties we'd just rotate out the papillons. The shelties looked too different for most people to get them mixed up. The paps, no one can tell them apart. They look totally different to me, one has a solid black face, one is a light sable, and then two darker red sables. But from a distance most people can't tell them apart. I just walk them one at a time. Our other next door neighbor knows we have four but she doesn't care. I also happen to know she has more than one white cat too and is over the pet limit.

[RaisingRiver]

Our city has 3 limit, but I'm outside the limit, so I don't know if something else applies. I know my CC&Rs say 7 animals so I'm safe with my neighbors. I live on 5 acres, and my neighbor behind me has 7 horses so I really don't see why I'd be limited to 3 dogs. I do register my pets so I guess I could be found out. I think I can do the kennel regis if I have to.

 

Registering my pets has benefits like extra days in lost and found and the fees help pay for other city animals services, etc, plus I don't want to be fined when my dogs are in town.