Went Back To See Farmer Today

[scomona]

haha!! hilarious.

[Sue R]

That is way too funny!

[workindogs]

Are you 100% sure Mel wasn't in season before she arrived at your house? A female can stand for 1-10 days...usually around 5 days +/-. If so, I'd be on alert to the faint possibility that she could have been bred by a male before she arrived at your house. Probably not...but I urge you to be alert to the signs of pregnancy at about 4wk or more.

[BorderCollieSam]

Are you 100% sure Mel wasn't in season before she arrived at your house? A female can stand for 1-10 days...usually around 5 days +/-. If so, I'd be on alert to the faint possibility that she could have been bred by a male before she arrived at your house. Probably not...but I urge you to be alert to the signs of pregnancy at about 4wk or more.

 

She is still in heat at the moment, she is still very flirty with Sam, we got her home late last Sunday, i noticed small red patches on our conservatory floor and at first thought it was blood until i went to wipe it up and it was dried, i then thought maybe it wasn't, until a day or so later when i noticed another and this was wet, and then she started flirting with Sam.....

 

So, i'm still non the wiser if she was or wasn't, the farmer text me this morning and asked how she was, i mentioned that she is in heat, and asked whether any of his dogs connected with her, he said he didn't notice anything......

[Sue R]

So, i'm still non the wiser if she was or wasn't, the farmer text me this morning and asked how she was, i mentioned that she is in heat, and asked whether any of his dogs connected with her, he said he didn't notice anything......

You might want to be prepared for the worst, and one might wonder at his timing for telling you that you could come and get her...

[pansmom]

You might want to be prepared for the worst, and one might wonder at his timing for telling you that you could come and get her...

 

Second this, although the knickers story is precious.

[BorderCollieSam]

You might want to be prepared for the worst, and one might wonder at his timing for telling you that you could come and get her...

 

And also he told me when i collected Mel that night (just in conversation whilst talking about his dogs in general) that Mel has had two litters of pups in the past, and that Sally (my Sams mum) has killed both litters.......

 

Maybe he knows and didn't want the same happening again.....

 

But then again that doesn't ring true, as he also asked 'if' i have a litter of pups with Mel and Sam, can he have one, as he doesn't have any offspring of 'Toss' (my Sams dad) and would like a descendent of Toss he's a really good dog (i'm sure he's his favourite as goes everywhere with him), but then he still has Sally and Toss and another Male, so he could have one of his own if he wanted.....

[martySQ]

That'as a little strange for a granny dog to kill her granbabies isn't it?

[BorderCollieSam]

That'as a little strange for a granny dog to kill her granbabies isn't it?

 

Sally and Mel aren't related.....

 

The farmer originally had 4 dogs, 2 males Toss and Shep, and 2 females Sal (Sally) and Nel (i've renamed her Mel).

 

My Sam is from Sally, she has had several litters without any problems.

 

However, Nel/Mel has had 2 litters and Sally has killed every pup out of each of the two litters.....

[mum24dog]

But then again that doesn't ring true, as he also asked 'if' i have a litter of pups with Mel and Sam, can he have one, as he doesn't have any offspring of 'Toss' (my Sams dad) and would like a descendent of Toss he's a really good dog (i'm sure he's his favourite as goes everywhere with him), but then he still has Sally and Toss and another Male, so he could have one of his own if he wanted.....

 

Why would he want a pup off an untried dog and one that was no good on stock?

 

I didn't want to scare you with the suggestion that she may already be pregnant but since others have brought it up .......

 

Unlikely if she is still at the bleeding stage but not all bitches follow the standard discharge pattern.

 

Pity it's too late to take her to the vet for a mismate injection just in case,

 

Pam

[BorderCollieSam]

Why would he want a pup off an untried dog and one that was no good on stock?

 

I didn't want to scare you with the suggestion that she may already be pregnant but since others have brought it up .......

 

Unlikely if she is still at the bleeding stage but not all bitches follow the standard discharge pattern.

 

Pity it's too late to take her to the vet for a mismate injection just in case,

 

Pam

 

I think he was referring to my Sams and his dad (Toss) breedline, as Toss is a really good worker, very powerful also, but then its 50/50 as 'if' she was to have had a pup it may have taken after Mel and not Sam/Toss....

 

Regarding the bleeding, we haven't noticed any bleeding since around Wednesday time, but she is still flirting with Sam.....

[mum24dog]

I think he was referring to my Sams and his dad (Toss) breedline, as Toss is a really good worker, very powerful also, but then its 50/50 as 'if' she was to have had a pup it may have taken after Mel and not Sam/Toss....

 

Any pup would only have 25% of Toss's genes. Not great odds that a grandpup would be like him even if it were that simple.

 

Pam

[juliepoudrier]

Pam,

Actually if Nel/Mel came from good working lines, and I'd guess she did if the farmer paid a lot of money for her, it wouldn't be unheard of to breed her even if she didn't work to his satisfaction. There is certainly a historical case for "brood bitches" who themselves were not great workers/trialers, for whatever reason, but who were great *producers.* I'm not suggesting this particular farmer would be one to judge such a thing, but there certainly is a long tradition of such breedings.

 

BCS,

A lot of old timers will say to look to the grandparents to "see" what the pups from any particular cross would be like. Since I am not a breeder (I've bred exactly one litter), I can't say if this is entirely true, but it makes as much sense as anything else. And if you subscribe to that belief, then the farmer would have been basing his hopes on Toss and Sam's dam, and Mel's parents.

 

J.

[mum24dog]

Pam,

Actually if Nel/Mel came from good working lines, and I'd guess she did if the farmer paid a lot of money for her, it wouldn't be unheard of to breed her even if she didn't work to his satisfaction. There is certainly a historical case for "brood bitches" who themselves were not great workers/trialers, for whatever reason, but who were great *producers.* I'm not suggesting this particular farmer would be one to judge such a thing, but there certainly is a long tradition of such breedings.

 

J.

 

Yes, but I'm guessing that in that case the sire of the pups would most likely be a dog that had been proven and chosen to offset the failings of the dam. I'm assuming careful breeding and not just not bothering to prevent matings, which is often the case.

 

Pam

[amc]

As far as Mel getting/being bred, I'd be somewhat concerned about her 15 minute absence when she escaped from the OPs wife early on...hope not, though.

 

Amy

[Liz P]

But then again that doesn't ring true, as he also asked 'if' i have a litter of pups with Mel and Sam, can he have one, as he doesn't have any offspring of 'Toss' (my Sams dad) and would like a descendent of Toss he's a really good dog (i'm sure he's his favourite as goes everywhere with him), but then he still has Sally and Toss and another Male, so he could have one of his own if he wanted.....

 

I thought Sam had been neutered? If he has not been and has tied with Mel you need to get her spayed in a few weeks, not a few months.

[juliepoudrier]

Liz,

Sam has been neutered, so no worries there.

 

Pam,

If I had to guess, I would say that the farmer is just trying to recover some of his initial investment in Mel and figured a pup, even if out of an unproven stud (whose sire he owns, likes very well, and depends on) would perhaps give him something back. We don't know the whole story of course, but I think the real problem was that Mel would not work *for the farmer,* not that she wasn't a good worker (though we don't know if he saw her working before purchasing her, but most folks I know wouldn't buy a trained dog sight unseen unless a third, trusted party recommended the dog highly, so presumably Mel's actual abilities were never in question).

 

It really isn't unheard of for someone to breed a good working dog to an unproven dog who is related to several proven dogs. I had an old-time shearer and sheep raiser (and trialer) suggest that very thing to me once, when his own proven dog wouldn't breed my bitch. He told me that he knew I was really interested in the *lines* as much as the particular dog (his dog) and so suggested I try the untrained littermate to his dog that belonged to his landlady.

 

Anyway, in this case we're assuming that Mel isn't a good worker when in fact all we know is that she wouldn't work for that particular farmer.

 

J.

[BorderCollieSam]

Pam,

Actually if Nel/Mel came from good working lines, and I'd guess she did if the farmer paid a lot of money for her, it wouldn't be unheard of to breed her even if she didn't work to his satisfaction. There is certainly a historical case for "brood bitches" who themselves were not great workers/trialers, for whatever reason, but who were great *producers.* I'm not suggesting this particular farmer would be one to judge such a thing, but there certainly is a long tradition of such breedings.

 

BCS,

A lot of old timers will say to look to the grandparents to "see" what the pups from any particular cross would be like. Since I am not a breeder (I've bred exactly one litter), I can't say if this is entirely true, but it makes as much sense as anything else. And if you subscribe to that belief, then the farmer would have been basing his hopes on Toss and Sam's dam, and Mel's parents.

 

J.

 

Hi Julie, i think the farmer had high expectations for her, hence the reason why it took me a year of pestering him to get her!

 

He is convinced that somebody had punished her before he got her.

 

You may have seen my other thread that i'm starting sheepdog training in April with a handler from the Romney Marsh Sheepdog Society, he will be training both me and Sam to work together, this is for Sams benefit not Mel, however i've been thinking overnight that maybe if Mel trusts me, as she certainly has come a long way in this past week, and in another 8 weeks hopefully things have improved even further, then it may be worth introducing her to sheep again and see how she reacts?

 

I may have a little hidden Gem just waiting to be brought out.....

[BorderCollieSam]

I thought Sam had been neutered? If he has not been and has tied with Mel you need to get her spayed in a few weeks, not a few months.

 

He has certainly been neutered, his bag looks like a dried up old peach!

[mum24dog]

If I had to guess, I would say that the farmer is just trying to recover some of his initial investment in Mel and figured a pup, even if out of an unproven stud (whose sire he owns, likes very well, and depends on) would perhaps give him something back.

 

You could be right, especially if he has an easy come easy go attitude and thinks he has nothing to lose.

 

Anyway, it's all hypothetical if Sam has been neutered, and long enough ago for there to be no residual sperm hanging around.

 

Pam

[BorderCollieSam]

Thought i would post another photo of Mel taken this evening, as i know some are like me and love to see photos of BC's!

 

Please excuse the bed clothes, we stripped the bed this morning before going to work and put everything including pillow cases in the wash!

 

Had just got back home and was getting changed (they both follow me upstairs when i get home and wait with me whilst i'm getting changed!) and had to snap that photo of Mel whilst she was relaxing.

 

I've also taken a 'Video' of Mel this evening, but Sam couldn't help himself and HAD to be in it to!

 

Video Here: - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZY3GLv2zAk

 

[Sue R]

Mel looks very much like our Megan, very much!

 

Watching the video, I am even more convinced that Mel is in a very good place with you and your family.

[alligande]

Mel looks like she is enjoying being a house dog.

[Elizabeth77]

I just got an email from Mel saying please ask you if she could have a collar like Sam? She does not want to be pushy , found the photo of my Meg who is the image of her and decided to ask us to intervene. I did tell her that of course she will get one but has to wait until you go to the collar shop.

[BorderCollieSam]

Hi everybody, yes Mel certainly seems to be enjoying her retirement years as a house dog, she is such a soft and gentle dog, when she puts her paws up on you or jumps up onto your lap, she is so light and gentle in her actions (unlike Sam who is heavy, clumsy, and like a bull in a china shop!).

 

My wife has bought Mel a really nice looking pink leather collar, each of the holes in the collar has a silver metal ring around it, however the collar is slightly too large for Mel at the moment so she is wearing Sams old collar, but once she puts on a little weight hopefully she'll grow into it.