jdarling Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 he paid a lot of money for her... Why would he pay a lot of money for a dog that doesn't work livestock? Did he buy her sight unseen or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Why would he pay a lot of money for a dog that doesn't work livestock? Did he buy her sight unseen or something? Thats exactly what i said to my Mrs, i'm not speculating, and i also wouldn't like to blame somebody for something that they didn't do, however i said to my Mrs that the way this dog is behaving, you would have certainly noticed it before you purchased her and you would have then realised that she may not make the grade...... It left me thinking that 'maybe', he 'may' have corrected her a little too strictly, i don't know, however he is a really nice lovely person, and both Sams Dad and Sams mum love him to bits, they do not hesitate going near him, they even play football with him, they are all over him, and i would have thought if it was him that frightened her, then surely the others would have suffered the same type of correction during the last 5 years (sams mum) and 10 years (sams Dad)..... The only other explanation as you say is possibly he purchased her without seeing her, maybe she was delivered to his farm, i don't know the full history, only that she is a lovely dog, and has beautiful looks, and is very hyper and is like a sniper, she circles low to the ground and has a sharp stair and very responsive to commands.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura L Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 What do you think? I personally believe that i can bring her around and gain her trust in time....... How long has he had the dog? There's usually an adjustment period going from one handler to another. I'd be wanting to give her more than just another 2 weeks, especially if he did pay quite a bit of money. eta: What commands is she responsive to if she won't come when called and isn't working sheep? Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItsADogsLyfe Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 what is "quite a bit of money?" What is a lot of money to him may not be all that much to someone else. Or he could be saying it so you might offer to buy her from him instead of him just giving her to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 How long has he had the dog? There's usually an adjustment period going from one handler to another. I'd be wanting to give her more than just another 2 weeks, especially if he did pay quite a bit of money. eta: What commands is she responsive to if she won't come when called and isn't working sheep? Laura He definetely had her when i picked Sam up when he was only 6 weeks old, and that was on 08/01/09.....so he has had her for at least 6 months, she is now around 16 months old he said. When he calls her, she responds immediately (ok so my Sam does that to), she will try her hardest to come all the way, but snipes along the ground really low with her tail so far between her legs that its almost laying up against her stomach, but waggling slightly, and then she backtracks and scoots away and finds it hard to fully commit herself to go near him, but before we left the farm, he managed to get her to come in close and she circled really closely behind his legs and sat alongside him with her whole body pressed up against his leg and her side of her face touching the side of his leg and looking up at him..... When she was up in the hills and wouldn't come down, she was running up quite far, he whistled and she returned immediately but again wouldn't fully commit to coming close..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 She may have acted like a normal, happy, well adjusted dog at the farm of her breeder/previous owner. A fear period, more skittish personality and major upheaval (new owners) can combine to make a dog who is too nervous to work or function in a new environment. I have personal experience with and know other dogs who act well adjusted in one situation but fall apart in others. A lot of money for one person may not seem like much to others. I have heard of people who have paid $2000 or more for a 6 month old pup then spent a small fortune importing that dog to the USA. To me that is way too much money and a crazy amount to spend on an unproven dog. I would not hesitate to pay $400 to $600 for a well bred pup, and yet to some people that is still too much for an animal that might or might not turn out to be a good working dog. It's all relative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Well, you may recall that prior to me getting Sam, i was looking through the internet at Border Collies, as was determined to get another BC as had allways had them as a kid, but they were being sold from family households for as much as £450.00-£550.00! I really couldn't justify paying that much for a dog, honestly, i just wanted a pet, ok a healthy one obviously, but wasn't interested in having letters after its name etc., i wanted a pet..... Thats when i spotted the farmer with his litter of pups which Sam ended up coming from and he cost me £100.00 which i was really happy with paying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laura L Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 See that's what everyone is talking about. I just paid $400 for a Border Collie and $500 for a Maremma, both are puppies. I think I got a steal with both of them. But then there are plenty of people who are willing to pay $800-1000 for a...whatever kind of doodle. I'm looking for a working dog and they want a pet. You can't decide what is a lot of money for another person. Maybe the farmer didn't really spend "a lot of money" on the dog. Why was he buying her? Did he like the way her parents worked? What was his reasoning on getting her? Laura Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 I can understand if I went out and bought a pup even if said pup was more than what Sam's dad paid for sam I might say something that led SD to think I paid waaay more. Misunderstandings happen and since SD is a pet person he might have been surpised that this man paid 3 or 4 times what SD paid for his working pet. That being said, if I bought a pup for strickely working purposes and it turned out not to work at all, I would consider rehoming her if I found a perfect home, considering i only have so much space for dogs and I need working dogs in those spaces. Personally I've paid up words of $800.00 for a dog that was supposed to be a trained pro-novice dog. She might have been, but she wasn't for me and with the issues we had I would not consider selling her for that price to another person who needed a working dog so she went for free to the perfect pet home, I think I required them to pay for her spaying (I do know she was spayed before she left my house). I've also placed other dogs I've purchased in pet homes that didn't fit my family or hold up to the working dog I was looking for. I don't like to have to do that, but in this work world for me, I have to be able to make decisions based on more than a dogs forever home. If I can find a better home for a dog than me, I have no issues with myself. Some I'm sure totally disagree. So I'm not suprised that this farmer is considering placeing or selling if he can, a dog that is not working out for the purpose he bought her. Julie, I think SD is planning on spaying the female rather than Sam. I was poking him for his choice to spay rather than neuter, just for the sake of the conservation. Correct me if I'm wrong SD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Hey Kristen, BorderCollieSam actually stated (and obviously I had forgotten when I posted my comment) that the plan was to neuter Sam because it was an easier, less risky surgery for the dog. I still think if I had to do one or the other I'd spay the female and leave the male intact, for the reasons I stated. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 See that's what everyone is talking about. I just paid $400 for a Border Collie and $500 for a Maremma, both are puppies. I think I got a steal with both of them. But then there are plenty of people who are willing to pay $800-1000 for a...whatever kind of doodle. I'm looking for a working dog and they want a pet. You can't decide what is a lot of money for another person. Maybe the farmer didn't really spend "a lot of money" on the dog. Why was he buying her? Did he like the way her parents worked? What was his reasoning on getting her? Laura The farmer has 4 dogs, but Sams dad is the main worker on the farm, he is a powerhorse but he is now 10, the farmer said he purchased the female to take over from Sams dad when the time comes....... The farmer is a really decent guy, he's not a show off in any sense of the word, quite a nice, genuine guy......i don't believe he was lying when he said he paid a lot of money for her, maybe as some have said on here it was a lot of money for him maybe...... However, this dog acted exactly the same as some dogs i used on the Lake District sheepdog experience (i posted a thread on it on these boards), they were all trial dogs, and the guy breeded trial dogs, apparently they started at £800.00! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 I can understand if I went out and bought a pup even if said pup was more than what Sam's dad paid for sam I might say something that led SD to think I paid waaay more. Misunderstandings happen and since SD is a pet person he might have been surpised that this man paid 3 or 4 times what SD paid for his working pet. That being said, if I bought a pup for strickely working purposes and it turned out not to work at all, I would consider rehoming her if I found a perfect home, considering i only have so much space for dogs and I need working dogs in those spaces. Personally I've paid up words of $800.00 for a dog that was supposed to be a trained pro-novice dog. She might have been, but she wasn't for me and with the issues we had I would not consider selling her for that price to another person who needed a working dog so she went for free to the perfect pet home, I think I required them to pay for her spaying (I do know she was spayed before she left my house). I've also placed other dogs I've purchased in pet homes that didn't fit my family or hold up to the working dog I was looking for. I don't like to have to do that, but in this work world for me, I have to be able to make decisions based on more than a dogs forever home. If I can find a better home for a dog than me, I have no issues with myself. Some I'm sure totally disagree. So I'm not suprised that this farmer is considering placeing or selling if he can, a dog that is not working out for the purpose he bought her. Julie, I think SD is planning on spaying the female rather than Sam. I was poking him for his choice to spay rather than neuter, just for the sake of the conservation. Correct me if I'm wrong SD. Excuse the example, however i suppose its a little like cars, you can buy a car that will get you from A-B for a few hundred pounds (or dollars ) but if you want a car to get you from A-Z, in comfort, and in half the time, and for it to be reliable, then you are going to need something like a Ferrari which will cost you a lot more. At the end of the day, if you are a cattle/sheep farmer, then as much as i love dogs, a dog is a necessary tool of the trade, and you only get what you pay for when it comes to tools. I paid £100.00 for Sam, and wanted him as a companion only, a companion to go through life with me and enjoy doing physical tasks, however he 'may' also work fine if given the correct training, as he certainly has a very strong prey drive (back to the rabbits!), however if you want to be sure of a prey driven herd proven BC then its possibly going to cost a hell of a lot more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 Julie, I think SD is planning on spaying the female rather than Sam. I was poking him for his choice to spay rather than neuter, just for the sake of the conservation. Correct me if I'm wrong SD. 'IF' i am offered the female, it will definetely be Sam that will be castrated, as i personally believe it will be less traumatic and less risky for Sam to be doctored than the female....as much as i don't want him to be done, thats the price both Sam and me have to pay for him to have a mate..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 At the end of the day, if you are a cattle/sheep farmer, then as much as i love dogs, a dog is a necessary tool of the trade, and you only get what you pay for when it comes to tools. You'd be suprised...a good working potential dog does not have to cost as arm and a leg compared to ACK puppies or I guess UKC prices. (I don't know prices of foo foo pet bc's in UK) and I understand that Sam comes from a working background. I've paid as little as 200.00 for a working dog and had the same chance as my 500.00 dollar pup. I've paid everything inbetween, but 800.00 was as high as I've ever paid and it was for what I thought was training. I didn't think 800.00 was high at all for a trained pro-novice dog... but I did get what I paid for or less. I'ave also taken in rescues as potential working dogs. Still have one. Although she washed out as a working dog. Ok Julie, I remember now, and I agree with you. If I could only do one or the other, I'd probably choose to spay as it is easier to manage your 1 intact male compared to the intact males that might come hunting around when your female comes into heat. But for SD I'd prefer to fix both dogs, less trouble in the long run and no chance of her or him proving themselves as breed worthy. Not saying they aren't but who will ever know, again that's not a bad thing. For me, unless I keep a dog whole that I think might maybe make a good breeding prospect I'd just as soon fix all my dogs. Makes for more peace or less management. And at this time, it'd have to be one hell of a working dog for me to even dream about breeding. Dew is whole because I haven't taken the time to get her fixed. But the rest of my dogs are fixed so she's not a management issue except when she's in season, and then it's all eyes on her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted May 27, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 You'd be suprised...a good working potential dog does not have to cost as arm and a leg compared to ACK puppies or I guess UKC prices. (I don't know prices of foo foo pet bc's in UK) and I understand that Sam comes from a working background. In the UK BC are going for silly prices. Check out this link, just one i found:- http://www.k9puppy.co.uk/PuppiesforSale/Bo...Collie5150.aspx £450.00 for a non trained, non working BC.....i thought i would take my chances with Sam for £100.00, at least he was from a working farm, and both his parents were working dogs.....although i didn't want Sam to work sheep, i did want an intelligent dog, one that is responsive to commands.....as i do mountaineering and want him to come along with me when he's a little older. Looks like BC are a lot cheaper in the US..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted May 27, 2009 Report Share Posted May 27, 2009 £450.00 for a non trained, non working BC...Looks like BC are a lot cheaper in the US..... I think you will find that show-bred or performance-bred pups (from kennels that breed dogs successful at these venues) are going to be much more expensive than quality working-bred pups even from well-known trial winners. It is the same in the US as it is in many other places. Those that are bred to work do not demand the prices that those that are from "successful" show/performance backgrounds. Ridiculous prices that people will pay for the "right" show/performance-bred pups have been discussed here before. Meanwhile, farm-bred pups from good parents can be had very cheaply, and so often can pups that are successful on the trial field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted May 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I would allways choose a farm bred pup whos parents were workers over a household bred pup or pup from show lines, i just like the idea that my pup has come from parents who are workers, and i 'personally' believe that my pup will 'hopefully' be a little more hardy and more intelligent than a non working/show bloodline pup. Not knocking showline dogs, but i would choose intelligence, hardy, and strong willed/determined dogs over show dogs and looks any day.......but each to their own..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted May 29, 2009 Report Share Posted May 29, 2009 I absolutely agree - the point I was trying to make is that pups bred for work command (or get) lower prices in general than pups bred for other purposes, no matter how contrary to common sense or the benefit to the breed that may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted January 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Don't know if any of you remember me posting this thread last year, however the Farmer ended up saying he was going to keep her to see if she makes any progress with the sheep as he paid a lot of money for her.... This was last June time, however he has just contacted me and said that she still isn't getting any better, he said that she is mine if i want her! Going to collect her tomorrow, will be a long road i know, but i'm hoping i can bring her around. Will be good to take some video of how she is when i get her, and then how she is 1 year later, and compare the two videos, hopefully she will come around to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Wow! Good luck on her. I think some dogs have a naturally skittish temperament - mine included. But he's settled in nicely, and is quite happy in a pet home. I hope your wife falls in love right away. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted January 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Wow! Good luck on her. I think some dogs have a naturally skittish temperament - mine included. But he's settled in nicely, and is quite happy in a pet home. I hope your wife falls in love right away. Mary Thanks Mary, Sam has been neutered so at least that is one obstacle over with. Just about to leave now to get her, will be about 9hr round trip, so the next time i post it will including a picture of her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansmom Posted January 31, 2010 Report Share Posted January 31, 2010 Thanks Mary, Sam has been neutered so at least that is one obstacle over with. Just about to leave now to get her, will be about 9hr round trip, so the next time i post it will including a picture of her! YAY! I'm excited to see pictures. She could just be scared of all the pressure on her to work! Chances are gentle handling and lots of affection will turn her around... Pets are pampered! They don't have to do much; it is us who have to keep them entertained. I'll keep my fingers crossed that she really blossoms in her new home. So glad to hear Sam was neutered too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BorderCollieSam Posted February 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 OK, back home now with Nel after a long long drive, she is in a terrible state, her hair is matted, she has clumps of hair with mud/dirt attached, she looks like an old girl even though she is only 2 1/2 years old..... I will be getting some dog shampoo tomorrow and will give her a warm bath to get her coat clean and give her a good bath, i can't believe she is in such a terrible state. Here are the 'before' photographs - she has a very strong 'eye', she has a fixed 'stare' which is really spooky, the camera doesn't really capture how strong the stare really is though....However Sam is very 'loose eyed', he doesn't have that spooky stare.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 She's a very fortunate girl to be in your household, and receiving lots of good care. Very best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted February 1, 2010 Report Share Posted February 1, 2010 Here are the 'before' photographs - she has a very strong 'eye', she has a fixed 'stare' which is really spooky, the camera doesn't really capture how strong the stare really is though....However Sam is very 'loose eyed', he doesn't have that spooky stare.... Just a thought - that "strong eye" is quite possibly due to the fact that her world was just turned upside down and she is a quite nervous about the whole thing. I imagine that after a few weeks of patience and TLC from you that she'll relax and her expression will soften up a bit. I'd really suggest just giving her a spot in your house where she can sit and watch the world go by and figure out her new life. As she gets more and more comfortable she'll most likely start interacting more and more with you and your family. Good luck with your new family member! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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