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workindogs's Achievements


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  1. I thought that a peer review was supposed to precede release of a test. Maybe they decided to release the test without a peer review? Will there be any information released about the mode of inheritance of EAOD and what genes might be involved? It would be nice to understand the test and genetics before we start testing. That said, it's great news to hear that there will soon be a test.
  2. The research group did make a push for submission of BAER tested known carrier and known affected over the past couple of years. I think they got some good response.
  3. I believe the study has hosted 3-4 BAER/DNA collection clinics since 2012. In April 2012, a A Ruhe and C Williams hosted one such clinic at McCormack Ranch SDT in CA. I attended and the clinic was well attended with many random dogs plus some dogs from known families. In Sept 2013 (?), M Neff, A Ruhe and Colette Wiliams offered another clinic at Meeker SDT (Mike and Laura Hanley can confirm…they were there as I remember them (and others) talking about it). I did not attend. I believe that the research group offered 1 or 2 more BAER/DNA clinics….but I can't recall the specifics (I thought one was on the East Coast). You would have to contact them to verify. The group has periodically made requests for DNA via internet and the community has responded. I know the study as reached out to contact, track down and test many known families. I can't say how many samples they've collected via their clinics, internet presence and word of mouth from the "EOD community". They would need to be asked this question. Of my own dogs, I tested 5 offspring off my suspected carrier sire plus the sire at the 2012 McCormack clinic. A full sister to 4 of the offspring had failed BAER a couple of months prior. All 5 offspring plus the 12 year old sire all BAER tested Normal. I trialed the sire of these dogs until he was nearly 11 yrs and he BAER tested Normal at 12 years shortly before he died. So I have every reason to believe that he was not Affected, but, given that he produced Affected, he is a suspected Carrier. I have had Colette Williams of UC Davis BAER test all the offspring annually since the 2012 clinic. In Sept 2015, C Williams failed two of my dogs, a 3 yr old and a 7 yr old both originally tested BAER Normal in 2012 and subsequent years until onset of deafness. The 3 and 7 yr olds had different mothers but same sire. I have two now 9 yr old offspring tested Normal in 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015…..and, I hope again, this Sept 2016 if the ABCA decides to offer another BAER clinic. I expect them to be Normal as they still perform at a high level on large trial fields. I know that there are other dogs from these early 2012-2013 clinics, as well as other EOD families, that have been tracked over the past 4 or more years plus some key old dogs that contributed to the early studies. I can't speak to the specifics as these aren't my dogs and the information is confidential between owner and researchers. So, I would not describe the study as inactive since 2012….they have been building data and tracking over time. The rest of your questions are best asked of the study.
  4. There are a number of recent updates to the Frequently Asked Questions page at projectDOG. Haystack, there will be an update shortly about the lab and research team that should answer your questions.
  5. Mark My understanding is that batch sizes will be processed at about 100 samples per batch. This doesn't seem extraordinarily large….certainly not in light of the enthusiastic response that is being expressed over the past several days. Haystack The limited time offer has to do with Mark B's concern about batch sizes as well as sustainable economics. If there is strong response, then batches will be filled and processed timely as committed on projectDOG's website. In order to keep costs to a minimum, chips need to be processed in economical batches. If demand tapers off, then batch processing could be delayed…..rather than have owners experience long delays (and unsatisfactory service) or baring the unsustainable cost of processing smaller batches, the project could be canceled due to lack of demand. If demand remains strong, then the project may well continue past September.
  6. The reason a DNA Test for EOD is being offered to the border collie community is that it will benefit most breeding decisions now, and many of us in the community really need this information now so as not to keep producing affected dogs (and suffering the heartbreak and perpetuation of this genetic disease). Border collie owners and breeders have pushed for this to happen. The researchers are willing to do this because it can benefit both breeding and research. Mark, you have commented that the EOD research may take years to be concluded because the dogs being tested are likely to be young. Dogs must be 8 yrs or older before they can be said to be clear of EOD. The research group is well aware of this and the current approach includes a solution to this problem. This approach to address informative dogs is touched on in brief on the website. If a young, breeding-age dog is found through the DNA testing to have the informative (reshuffled) pattern of mutations. This young dog likely inherited this pattern of mutations and it is not unreasonable to expect that relatives of this dog, including older relatives, also hold this same pattern. It is my understanding that these mutations tend to be co-inherited. When the mutations are reshuffled, they tend to stay reshuffled in the particular pedigree. The young dog that was found to have the important (informative) DNA pattern in this example serves as a beacon for finding older dogs that share this pattern. The researchers have said that DNA from these older relatives will be collected and analyzed at no-cost to the owners. If the older dogs share the important pattern, a hearing test will also be provided at no cost to determine the phenotype of the older dog carrying this pattern. Perhaps some of these dogs might have BAER tests already from ABCA sponsored clinics at National Finals (I hope)!
  7. I have two working dogs with early onset deafness. They can both hear….and are quite functional as pets. However, in work, they have trouble with whistles…..I believe that the high tones are much more difficult for them. They are pretty good with vocals (lower tones). They are confused and anxious when they are wrong….probably because I escalate and they hear the anger/urgency/escalation.
  8. Tea, I'm not sure who your question is directed to….maybe the OP. I'll answer anyway. "My %" is a mixture of dogs I've bred/produced and dogs I've bought from others. All of the dogs I've bred and kept (and maybe resold later) and dogs I've bought from others have worked good to excellent…..some have been stellar (for me), some have been stellar for someone else (sold on by me because they don't suit me…or I have others who suit me better), some have been good to average, some have been extremely talented but soft to train, some have been extremely talented but hard (for me) to train. Of puppies I've sold, not more than one or two (say less than 10%) have been reported to me as not keen (or not keen enough). There have been pups that folks haven't liked (and said weren't good) and sold on and were good for someone else. One or two that "weren't good", I've taken back and found that they were fine for me. You know….these poor dogs get bashed so much for lacking this or that. But, there are soooooooo many horrid handler/trainers that never give the poor dogs a fair chance…..or criticize a dog when in reality it just isn't that person's "type"….but a good type for someone else. The person plays a big part in partnering with a dog and developing it to its full potential. Frankly, there are a lot of really poor handler/trainers out there…..or folks who simply are not in touch with their own limitation or tolerance or needs.
  9. I've let dogs go (sold them) in order to focus on dog that best suit me and my needs. Many of the dogs I've sold have been very good and have gone on to be great working dogs for their new owners (working ranch or Open trial). Just because I sell a dog does not mean it's not good….in fact, I am very proud of dogs I've sold on who are great partners to their owners. There are some that aren't going to work at a high level….but an average to fair working dog can still do good work for someone (novice handler, small/hobby farm work) or be a good pet. Please keep in mind that some ranchers and open handlers supplement their income with an occasional sale of an animal…..this is not uncommon with either work horses or work dogs. I have friends who make a portion of their income training and selling top quality dogs. If they were selling substandard animals then their market would likely dry up.
  10. Love: amazing views, easy maintenance setup, dry land so no irrigation chores, easy commute to town/work, good neighbors (except one), small enough to manage myself, great outbuildings Hate: no irrigation/no grass/limited stocking, foxtails (lots of them), not large enough for the operation I'd like Advice: don't skimp on undersized/underpowered tools, for folks who work during the day don't skimp on outside lighting….most of my farm chores Fall-Winter are done in the dark. Control drainage aggressively…..clear drain ditches, rock areas around feeders and waterers and pass ways (gates)
  11. Julie, I'm trying to envision the scenario you describe. Are you working a single toward the group? Or are you working the single away from the group? I would suggest that you work a single away from the group…..this provides more pressure for Timber to balance and push into. If he flanks off, he will lose his single. Many dogs learn to like the "keep away" game (keeping a single from re-joining). If you are working the single toward the group he might be more likely to flank out to join the two groups. For now and until Timber gains experience…..push the single away from the group. It sounds like you are doing the right thing to stop him from making a big casting flank when he wants to scoop up and join the others…..stop him, call his attention back to his single. Perhaps I've misunderstood….if so, let me know.
  12. I will use shade cloth over the front of these kennels in the summer.
  13. I am in the process of re-building a kennel building that was destroyed in a violent wind storm. My re-build isn't necessarily my dream kennel but needed to fit in my budget (and insurance claim) and my skinny space (8x30 ft) and my mild dry Southern OR climate. The former "kennel" contained two side by side kennels on a cement foundation in a 3 sided shed and an attached "wood shed" on dirt. The entire building was blasted to bits in a strong wild storm…..about 15 minutes after I woke in the early dark morning hours to an immense storm and rescued my dogs. Fifteen minutes later the entire kennel was gone….not just fallen over…blown to bits. In essence, my kennel is a long skinny 3 sided shed with a full roof……2 side by side kennels, a 10x8 shed in the middle, and another 2 side by side kennels. The front is open with chain link gated front. The kennels will be a set of two on the right, a shed in the middle and a set of two kennels on the left…..all on cement foundation with drainage out the back, overhead lights in kennels, electrical outlet in shed and water spigot. I would have preferred welded kennels but am settling for chain link due to budget and custom size. Each kennel will be 6x6 feet. I have another 3 sided building with some kennels on cement with 5x10 ft welded kennels…I have laid rubber stall mats in those kennels. These kennels will be on cement which I will elaborate below. Pros and Cons and random thoughts for consideration: -While I like the idea of indoor/outdoor kennels, I don't have the space or budget…..and my climate is reasonably mild. So my kennels are fully outdoor but covered by 3 sides (with double sheathing) and a roof. If extreme weather hits, I can crate dogs indoors. -I specifically needed to separate certain dogs who fence fight…and surface that I can sanitize due to certain dirty individuals. -I like 6x6 ft kennels with a dog house inside to limit rambunctious dogs activity and limit "dirty dog" from unrestrained soiling of their kennels. -I work 9-10 hrs a day….crating is not possible. Since my prior kennels have been destroyed I am crating certain dogs for too long each day. While almost all restrain themselves from soiling their area, I feel it is too long to make them suffer (if they are suffering). Also, I have had dogs get elbow hygroma from too many hours in a crate. Crating is not an option for me (due to my long work hours) except in an emergency situation. -Sun is intense (sometimes get over 100 deg heat…but usually doesn't last), but climate is dry…..winters are fairly mild but occasional sub freezing temps…or prolonged freezing temps. I classify that as "emergency" and if temps are too extreme I can crate indoors. -While I prefer dogs on rubber mats, I have had some border collies tear up rubber mats…..literally drag and tear up 100 lb 6x10 ft 3/4 in mats. I don't know how they do it. I keep most of my kennels on rubber mats on top of cement….but I need a few kennels on cement only. -I have used misters in the past….nice for awhile. However, in my dry climate, the hard well water and rapid evaporation caused every surface to end up coated in hard mineral deposit….and eventually clog the entire mister system. -I would not want dogs on dirt or gravel. Most of my dogs are very clean and tidy….but eventually there is always a piglet that soils its area and needs cleaning. This type of dog needs rubber mat or cement or pavers. And then there are the diggers…..:-( -While most dogs don't fence fight, eventually there will be a dog that does. My preference would be to have high solid barriers between each kennel. I usually try to put and active (reactive) dog/youngster next to a very boring sleepy oldster. -My kennels as constructed don't bare the dogs from seeing my pasture. Some dogs jump and bark and react to sheep (and most especially my llama) in the pasture. Fortunately, I don't usually have stock in this pasture (it's small)….but their view of the pasture can be a problem. The view of something stimulating (like a road, livestock, other stimulating creatures/activity) is worth consideration.
  14. It's generally a bad thing……onset 2-5/6 years
  15. The dog I knew that had the problem was an adult when it manifested
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