simba Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I was recently absolutely mortified at a friend's house. Brought the terrier over and she was so rude. She wanted to sit in the middle of everyone, she gave out when told to stay in the corner (crying, scratching). She obsessed over the cats. I had her on-leash the whole time: her stay is good and she didn't break it even when the cat pestered, but better safe than sorry. When a goat headbutted my friend she went berserk, and tried to lead me back outside to the goat several times. Both of them would have been at least chased or barked at if she hadn't been on-leash and listening, and she tried to lead me out to the goat several times. When new people came into the house she barked. Even when I put her into stay she'd stand up and move a bit when she got excited, and sit down again. I was totally mortified, apologising, I'd never bring her back again ("I swear she isn't like this normally!"). Even thinking about it now makes my cheeks burn. They complimented me on my well-behaved dog, and not sarcastically. I had this happen at another house too, dog owners seriously asking me how I got my dog 'so good'. Same thing happened with someone who didn't even like dogs ("I don't mind that one, she's trained"). The last two times she wasn't as bad, but nothing that would warrant those comments. It's weird. Is it because she's small and people don't notice bad behaviour from small dogs? It was so weird I'm actually posting about this on a public forum, like a total idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Noticed this too, it seems those little dogs keep their "puppy license" their whole lives... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brndlbc Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 The term "well behaved" is subject to many different interpretations. My friends thought their son was well behaved. The police thought different. So did the judge. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Sometimes, what you need to do is *more* of the same. Get her out and visiting with friends who won't be bothered by her behavior; work with her while there to improve her manners (and lower her excitement level); reward the good behavior and rechannel her energy into desirable behaviors; enlist your friends to help reinforce the lessons you want to teach (no attention unless she is being mannerly, that sort of thing). So many people say to me, when I have my dogs in public, that they couldn't take their dogs there because they would be ill-behaved. That's probably largely because they have not been socialized and familiarized with that sort of situation when they were younger, but it's not necessarily too late. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChantalB Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I think it comes down to standards and perspectives. To me a well behaved dog is much different than what others think it is. I strive my training level to be much higher than the average pet owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olivia Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 In regards to small dogs... I will say that I notice that other people look over behavior in my chihuahua that they know I would never tolerate in my border collies. They think it's cute and harmless because she's so small. I have to keep reminding them and myself that just because she is 5 pounds instead of 40 pounds is no excuse for any behavior that I find rude. Keep working with him and I bet you'll find that his behavior gets better and better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Take her out more, but in smaller doses and for shorter amounts of time. Let her get used to controllling herself, (on leash of course, but with calm, quiet behavior, for brief periods. Reinforce/reward. Teach her some calming behaviors at home, like putting her chin in your hand and relaxing, then when she's really good at that, work on those in more distracting/stressful environments. Really, if she was holding her stays, that's pretty good. I do believe that people excuse all kinds of outrageous behavior in small dogs. I also thing people feel safe in provoking all kinds of that same behavior in small dogs, because, you know, it's a lot of fun to see a little dog go nuts and bark ferociously. For me, good behavior is a matter of mental health for any dog. If a dog can learn to listen to and trust its human, be calm, respond appropriately no matter what's going on around it, this dog is much better off. The poor stressed out things who are hiding and shaking, or lunging/barking/etc, are not happy. I think that this is a form of animal abuse, to allow or encourage this kind of thing in any dog. Okay, off my soapbox. Please let us know how things go with your terrier. Ruth and Agent Gibbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 IME little dogs are allowed to get away with a lot more bad behavior simply because they're little and cute. I've seen behavior out of the little dog du jour at sheepdog trials that would *never* be tolerated if it was a border collie doing the same thing. Frustrates me to no end.... Just because it's little doesn't mean the behavior is any less obnoxious, despite what the owner may think. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smalahundur Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I think it comes down to standards and perspectives. To me a well behaved dog is much different than what others think it is. I strive my training level to be much higher than the average pet owner. Haha, very true for my neck of the woods; I once walked into the barn at a neighbouring farm, and my two dogs followed me in. I told them friendly to "get out", which they promptly did. My neighbour was amazed by my "awesome" dog training skills . But seriously it is pretty sad to see the number of very promising dogs wasted here due to lack of even the most basic training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Festerling Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I would say it totally depends on every single persons perception of well behaved. As stated by others already. I am not always successful with what I am to say with my own crew, but I still strive for it. Which is that when I go somewhere with mine they are to be almost un noticeable. By that I want them to be with me not the other way around. I also work on them "doing" this without constant coaching from me. That coaching does not include leashes. Leashes are a total must for guidance but should ideally not be the only means of control. All of this does not apply for the dog that is learning as they have to get chances to work out what is and what is not acceptable. The finished (as close to finished result possible under the circumstances) result is a dog that blends. Almost un noticed. To where it is almost so seamless that the host later goes "there was a dog???). Now to be honest, only a few of mine fit that bill. The others, stay home. And it might also be a good time to add that at my house my dogs are on their worst behavior comparatively since my lifestyle is vey limited when it comes to visitors or sharing our home. Go figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I also agree that small dogs are given a pass on behavior. But when it comes to general manners, I think most people just have a very low expectation of a dogs behavior, our dogs are always been complimented on how well behaved/trained they are, even when we think they have cloth ears and not responding as quickly as they should! My husband and I do not have really high standards we just want good manners. I was reminded of this when chatting to an agility friend with multiple border collies, her dogs have much better formal obedience than mine and she trains constantly, obedience, agility, rally etc but then she started talking about how they behaved in the house, I was shocked.... none of what was happening would have been acceptable in our house. Our dogs might have dodgy leash walking habits but they would never eat the duvet while I was sleeping under it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurelin Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 My dogs are well behaved to me. My dad and the rest of my family would probably argue that their dogs are better behaved than mine, but I would disagree. My family complains about them whenever they have to watch my dogs on the rare occasion because they like dogs that lay around and do their own thing and never bark and never need exercise. My dogs can't lay around all day and do nothing and still behave so therefore my dogs are 'badly behaved' to them. But if you take my dogs out in public versus their dogs, mine don't pull on a leash, don't bark at strangers or strange dogs, can be off leash without problems, go through crowds of people and dogs no problem, listen and are in general more obedient. And by the way I do have toy dogs (papillons). So just saying not everyone lets them misbehave Honestly, I think it comes down to the owner and what they're willing to tolerate/manage. I am sure there are some things I let my dogs get away with that would horrify people here but they don't bother me. Manners in public are one of those things that I'm a stickler about. It always cracks me up how people seem amazed by the littlest things. You can get a long way just by talking and communicating with your dogs and exposing them to different things and teaching them how to be calm and behave. I really don't feel like I did anything particularly special with my dogs but I am always getting compliments about how well behaved they are and how people cannot believe that I have well behaved little dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachdogz Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I was recently absolutely mortified at a friend's house. Brought the terrier over and she was so rude. She wanted to sit in the middle of everyone, she gave out when told to stay in the corner (crying, scratching). She obsessed over the cats. I had her on-leash the whole time: her stay is good and she didn't break it even when the cat pestered, but better safe than sorry. When a goat headbutted my friend she went berserk, and tried to lead me back outside to the goat several times. Both of them would have been at least chased or barked at if she hadn't been on-leash and listening, and she tried to lead me out to the goat several times. When new people came into the house she barked. Even when I put her into stay she'd stand up and move a bit when she got excited, and sit down again. I was totally mortified, apologising, I'd never bring her back again ("I swear she isn't like this normally!"). Even thinking about it now makes my cheeks burn. They complimented me on my well-behaved dog, and not sarcastically. I had this happen at another house too, dog owners seriously asking me how I got my dog 'so good'. Same thing happened with someone who didn't even like dogs ("I don't mind that one, she's trained"). The last two times she wasn't as bad, but nothing that would warrant those comments. It's weird. Is it because she's small and people don't notice bad behaviour from small dogs? It was so weird I'm actually posting about this on a public forum, like a total idiot. I agree that everyone's idea of good behavior is different, and your standards are probably higher than theirs. I've underlined and bolded pieces of your story that, in others' eyes, led them to think that your dog behaved well! (For instance, you were appalled that she was obsessing over the cats, but they were amazed that she stayed while on lead.) To you, she may have behaved badly....but in their eyes she probably behaved better than their own dogs would have in similar situations. So, just think how badly their dogs must behave! She also may get a "free pass" on behavior not only because she's small, but because she's a terrier. People just expect terriers to be....well, terriers. And one that exhibits obedient behavior is impressive to them. (And my apologies to my friends who DO have excellent behaving terriers not despite that they are terriers, but because they put an infinite amount of time into training them!!) Seriously, I am usually more impressed with a good working terrier than an excellent working Golden because I know that is it much more difficult to train a terrier. (I guess that sound a little prejudiced.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jexa Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Slightly ironic that I'm reading this now, Rudder has been an absolute saint the last couple weeks, and today it was as if he said "screw it I've been too good for too long it's time to rampage!". Examples: Totally ignored me when I called him back from saying hi to one of the ladies at the barn this morning. I calmly went to get him and leashed him for the rest of the time. My philosophy is you abuse your off leash privileges, you lose them. Everyone was laughing at "poor Rudder" and basically thought I was demanding too much. Then we went to the pet store, where he decided that "down" actually meant "pull on the leash and try to drag me over to the other dog". Took me about 10 minutes of bringing Rudder back to the same spot over and over and making him lie down and stay calm before he finally decided maybe I actually meant it. The other dogs owner went on and on about how "poor guy he just wanted to say hi, he's just being friendly". Well, no, he's just being a royal pain in the patootie, actually . He doesnt get to pull on the leash or ignore me when I tell him down. But the way she went on you'd think I was beating him. Her little Pomeranian, by the way, was completely wigging out this entire time. He was a tiny tornado of snarling, barking, and yanking on the leash. Obviously my opinion of a well behaved dog is different than many people's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted May 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 Slightly ironic that I'm reading this now, Rudder has been an absolute saint the last couple weeks, and today it was as if he said "screw it I've been too good for too long it's time to rampage!". Exactly like that! It was, as far as I know, her first goat. She was fine with the others, didn't even look at them (including the goofy kid), but she got unreasonably excited over the one that happened to butt my friend. Oh, and one cat (the calm one) was a-okay. Got a lick and all. The other, well, she reacted like it was dinner and a tennis ball all in one, especially when it started chasing its own tail, and she remembered the next time we saw those two. She hasn't had enough experience with non-dog animals. Having said that she's always a bit of a pest, because people react well to a small fluffy thing asking for belly rubs ("I'm sitting, and fetching you stuff, look how cute I am!") She's not a bad dog, just an attention-seeking one. G. Festerling- still aspiring to that! And thank you everyone for the very good advice! I have seen dogs at other people's houses who come inside and mess within about five minutes, with an open door nearby. I've seen dogs let outside at other people's houses where they go and chase or kill chickens and rabbits. And the owners didn't seem to really notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I have a small dog who has had an abysmally small amount of training. Both of my other Paps were very well trained, both Harley and Bhodi (my ex's dog) were trained to do obedience and agility and obeyed a million commands with precision and could go anywhere. Then, there is Swiffer. I adopted her at a time in my life when I probably shouldn't have, and I have had her since she was 6 weeks old. Within her first year, she lived with me in an apartment and then moved with me, and I just never got around to training her "officially." She is very easy to live with, because she has a pretty solid recall, and just understands life routines so she does kind of what I ask because shes figured it out, but she can't differentiate between a sit and a down, can barely do a stay without practically levitating and pulls on a leash. But a 6 lb dog who does these things is a whole different ball game than a bigger dog. I realized when Argos was 6 months old that he knew more than her and she was 7 years old. When you come to my house and she whings herself at you whining because she just loves everyone and is positive you visited just to lavish attention and cookies on her, I will pick her up and tuck her in my armpit and she stops being a problem. Can;t tuck the Border Collie in my armpit I really *should* make an effort to train her... who, me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puppytoes Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 I've actually had conversations with people about their little dog's behaviour in which i ask them. How much would you enjoy this behaviour if it was a pittie or a rottie doing X. I often find that these little dogs (purse dogs i call them) are not properly socialised around other dogs (probably because they are being carried all of the time) and run at and bark/jap non-stop. Many of them will say, oh he/she is friendly. But to my dog, annoying is annoying regardless of size or intention. Dogs that people have concerns about (such as bully breeds) have to be so much better behaved in public because people are looking to find fault with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 It's not just with dogs. It's with kids. Small seems to mean juvenile. The smaller, the younger. So a small dog get a pass for being a puppy. Even if it's 12 years old. Our older daughter is 45 - and still gets carded. We told her not to smoke as it would stunt her growth - a dangerous proposition in our heritage. But she did. She swears she's 4'11" - but we all know it's 4'10". With us humans, the pat on the head and comment about "when you grow up" get5s old before you do. Anyhow, the kids were always treated as not being expected to behave as what was expected of kids their age. Because they were so much smaller. Folks other than us gave them way too much leeway in behaving. Same with grandgirl. In 4th grade, she could pass for 1st easily. A small dog looks puppy size. So it get's puppy leeway. Just let a Great Dane puppy try that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon's girl Posted May 25, 2012 Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 IMO either you or your terrier is a saint. My 10 yr old JRT has learned many tricks in the 5 yrs that we have had her, so I know she isn't stupid... But NOTHING will get in the way of her terrier behavior. I don't accept her behavior, but my husband definitely has small dog myopathy. All my other dogs could go anywhere, anytime without a thought. She has to be managed every minute. You're doing great with her. Keep up the good work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted May 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2012 IMO either you or your terrier is a saint. It's definitely her. Her virtues are all her own- her vices are from the people. In fairness to her I dropped the lead and told her to wait while I did washing-up, and she sat quietly for the whole time, while the cat played the "Run around the dog while swishing my tail madly" game. Nancy- totally agreed. Puppytoes- I've never met a badly-behaved staffie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted May 26, 2012 Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 As others have said "well behaved" is in the eye of the beholder. My parents are not dog people. They let us bring Dean to their house every Fourth of July weekend when they have us over for an afternoon because we don't like to leave him home in case of neighborhood fireworks. I bring a portable crate and he hangs out in it, unless we bring him out to socialize or play. They enjoy watching him retrieve balls, play in the spray of the hose, or do his tricks. But when we aren't actively interacting with him, he is lying in the crate, minding his business. They always comment on how well behaved he is. (And by all standards, he is). When they come to my house on Thanksgiving, he is not using his company manners. Is is busy about the house, visiting guests, playing with the kids, and running around with a ball that the kids have inevitably thrown for him. My mother will ask me why he isn't as well behaved at home as he is at their house. Never mind he isn't barking at people, he isn't jumping all over people, he is minding his own business, he is not bothering any of the food or anyone who has food, he is playing very appropriately with the kids, and he is pretty much staying out of the way of the adults. He isn't "well behaved" in her estimation because he isn't sitting quietly most of the time. But really, he is remarkably well behaved. It's in the eye of the beholder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted May 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2012 Anyone else notice how cute dogs get away with more? Case in point: two small dogs playing with guests. One's an ugly little 5 month old (morphologically more like an adult), one's an adorable 10 year old (big eyes, drop ears, big head, fluffy). The older dog bows and dances around with a toy, the other one drops balls at people and looks up hopefully, then shakes them. Same level of activity, same level of noise. Older dog is being good/sweet, younger dog is being a pest/untrained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donald McCaig Posted May 27, 2012 Report Share Posted May 27, 2012 Dear Doggers, Mannerliness (def): "A dog is mannerly when it can, without annoying you or others, accompany you whereever it is safe to do so." I almost always have a dog or three with me so they must be mannerly. Fly isn't. Enroute to Dr Ben's trial, I had to stop at Duke to interview the director of their Haitian Lab. My dog-friendly-and-equipped station wagon is being modified so I was driving the bright red farm truck and it was 90 degrees. While I could leave Fly chained under the truck at a trial, I daren't do so in a University parking lot. Last week, at the Hermitage I spotted all day shade where I wasn't supposed to park but I tucked the truck into that shade and left her there windows partway down) for an hour. I emailed the Director suggesting he recommend some shade or perhaps we could meet outside but he said, "Bring her in." Fly met some graduate students and endured a two hour meeting in a small office on leash lying at my feet but a mannerly dog would have been off lead and on a long down stay in a corner. Fly's getting there because she is asked to, but she's not there yet. Donald McCaig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted May 28, 2012 Report Share Posted May 28, 2012 The other dogs owner went on and on about how "poor guy he just wanted to say hi, he's just being friendly". Well, no, he's just being a royal pain in the patootie, actually.................the way she went on you'd think I was beating him. Oh yeah. I have encountered this kind of thing more times than I can remember. Total strangers have even called me "mean!" because I have insisted (in a calm, soft voice always) that my dog maintain his down-stay, or do whatever I have told him to do. There isn't time or, frankly, inclination, under all circumstances to launch into a discussion of dog training and its merits and requirements. And with many people it proves to be a waste of time and breath in any case. And yet I would be willing to bet that same person, seeing my dog on a different occasion when I was not having to reinforce his training, would be one of the first to comment on my "amazingly good dog", and ask me where they could get such a good dog. <sigh> D'Elle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted August 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2014 Same cats, same goats, same dog, same house. She still whined, which was not good, but I could walk her around outside near the goat both on- and off-lead without her breaking concentration. She could be inside with the cats off-lead (though of course I put the lead back on her when I couldn't pay direct attention to her) and with tempting cat food, which was on the ground. She did go over to it a few times but once she was told to 'leave it' she would again (until the next temptation.) On the one hand we still had the staring and the begging to go outside and the incessant whining (good good that is a seriously irritating noise.) On the other hand, it was much better than before. Baby steps? Edit: she stopped whining and was very good for a while, and then she got into 'small toddler overtired in a stimulating environment' mode so I put her in stay for a little while and then we went home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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