Agressive AGAIN! I don't know what to do at this point...

[nowwown]

Cody went after a Boxer at the dog park on Saturday. The boxer wasn't even near him and Cody attacked. After we got everyone calmed down, separated, etc. Cody was fine for about five minutes. Then he went after the 8-month old boxer-mix puppy that belonged to the same woman as the original Boxer. That puppy was pretty large and I had a hard time beleiveing her that it was still a puppy, actually.

 

I of course profusely apologized, we checked for injuries (no blood or damage) and then we promptly left the dog park.

 

I just don't understand this. He's fine, fine fine with 98% of the dogs he meets. Then he gets aggressive. It's intermittent and it's driving us nuts. I don't know if it's safe or not safe with him from dog to dog at this point.

 

If it's a dog he knows, like our neighbors' dogs, he's great. Most dogs we pass on the street he's friendly and fine. But it's that once in a while that makes me so scared. To me, they are not being aggressive to him at all.

 

This is the second or third Boxer he has gone after. Other Boxers, he is fine with. But other times it is other types of dogs.

 

Two weeks ago we were walking at an outside "town center" and some folks, like us, were enjoying coffee at outside tables. Cody laid quietly at her feet, then all of a sudden lunged and snarled at a retriever-mix dog three tables away. That dog had been laying quietly under its table so this was also unprovoked.

 

I want to keep taking him to the dog park but I'm not sure it's a good idea anymore. I need suggestions and help!! Please!

[bc4pack]

There could be a few things...

Just curious, have you had his thyroid levels checked ? Even in young dogs it could be a factor.

There can definitely be things he is perceiving that you aren't, perceived indisgressions...

Where are you in relation to Cody when these incidents occur?

 

You might want to read through 'Culture Clash'... stresses in a dogs life can be cumulative too.

 

Seems 'pre-emptive'... 'get them before they get me'... that usually derives from fear.

 

Personally I would start looking around for a good/ positive 'reactive dog' class. I'd also be looking for someone

with fear aggression experience. I think having another set of eyes will help to narrow down the triggers to something a bit more specific than boxers, plus be of help instituting controlled training scenarios.

 

You may want to hold off on the dog park until you've got a better handle on this .... and NO it does not mean

never again....

 

 

Just an idea or two...

Tara

[nowwown]

There could be a few things...

Just curious, have you had his thyroid levels checked ? Even in young dogs it could be a factor.

There can definitely be things he is perceiving that you aren't, perceived indisgressions...

Where are you in relation to Cody when these incidents occur?

 

We are taking Cody for his annual exam this Saturday so I'll be sure to request the thyroid level test.

 

I was about 20-feet away from him when he attacked the boxer and about 10-15 feet away when he went after the puppy. When we are on walks and he "goes after" another dog walking by, he of course is on a 4-5' leash. Why would this matter? A sense of "protecting" me?

 

Thanks!

[bc4pack]

Yeah, there could be a bit of resource guarding there in addition to what I perceive as predominantly fear induced aggression.

I do think you could use a bit of pro help... especially since you mention there is some leash aggression too.

 

Thing is, it is tough to give you any 'You need to do this.' without seeing EXACTLY what's happening.

 

Counterconditioning/ Desensitization techniques need several things: knowing what the specific triggers are,

timing and a bit of knowledge... it's simple to do but, as I mentioned an extra set of eyes may be able to

pinpoint him going 'overthreshold' before you do. I mean NO DISRESPECT WHATSOEVER with that sentence.

 

If you would like a good internet 'helping hand'... think about joining the Agbeh (Aggressive Behavior in Dogs)

group on Yahoo Groups. Positive trainers tailoring replies to the individual situations and giving you a step by step

guide to CC/DS as well as trainer referrals, tons of experience with fear aggression , whether directed at

dogs or humans.

 

This problem is not that uncommon and it is definitely something that with time and some dedication can

be improved immensely.

 

Tara

[MaggieDog]

Be aware that the moderator is very strict on agbeh, but you can get tons of really good info by reading and posting so try to bear with her.

 

I like the book "Fight" by Donaldson. It's all about dog-dog issues and how to determine causation to some extent and then tailor your training plan given that info. It's written more for trainers, but a saavy dog owner should be able to understand it easily enough.

[hoku's mum]

We are experiencing a similar thing with Hoku (almost 2 now). He has always been reactive to some dogs when he is leashed, but was always fine off leash, till recently. He's great with some dogs, total play monster, but others seem to set him off (boxers seem to really freak him out). When we hike, he always greeted dogs happily, played and was fine. Now, some dogs we meet he is fine, but some he is very 'rude' to (in their face, rough 'play' right away, chasing in an aggressive manner which often scares the other dogs as he is so dang fast).

 

I don't have any advise, but am very interested in what others have to say, as this new thing is making hiking somewhat anxiety producing (which I know he then picks up on....)

[Dixie_Girl]

Jackson lies on the floor under the bench across from me. It's his "place". Skip always lays on the floor by my seat. A few weeks ago, I would every now and again, hear Jackson growling. Now, remember, this is the most condisending dog I have ever known. I would check under the table and no other dogs would be there. Sometimes, Skip would not even be facing Jackson. Couldn't figure it out, but I would just say, HEY! and it would stop. Then one day, I found the reason. Skip would "glare" sometimes with his lip curled, at Jackson. Jackson naturally took this as a threat, especially since he was in "his place". So, even though the dog might have been 3 tables over, doesn't mean he didn't do something that made Cody feel challenged. Same at the dog park. By all means, check him out medically, but just be aware, dogs have a secret language, that not only do we sometimes not understand, sometimes we don't even see it!

[bc4pack]

Another Yahoo group that can also help a lot is shy-k9s and it is informal .

 

I know a lot of folks are a bit uncomfortable posting on Agbeh, but the info in the Files and

past posts are definitely worthwhile...even if one never posts. A handler/owner can learn a lot!

 

MaggieDog, I take it you are a member... then you've seen a few of my rather minimal contributions

 

I just post on the website and I don't know that my grammar is THAT good, but I haven't had any

problems.

 

Tara

[Journey]

We are taking Cody for his annual exam this Saturday so I'll be sure to request the thyroid level test.

 

When you do this make sure your vet sends it to Michigan State - Small Animal Diagnostic - any that are done on a local level through human labs are minimal and don't give a complete reading. You might want to check out this site as well regarding Thyroid - http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/HEMOPET.HTM

 

Karen

[mbc1963]

Hmmm... Interesting! My dog is also mad, at about 5 seemingly random percent of the dogs we meet. BUT... with lots of observation, I've learned to pick up on signals that seem to set him off. And my dog also has problems with specific breeds, especially including boxers and other strong-fronted dogs.

 

Check to see if those dogs Cody is going after are giving him a dead-on stare. That's a strong signal in dog body language. I've learned to watch other dogs carefully and if they start staring, move my own dog away. He will respond to the dead-on stare with growling - it's definitely a "get him before he gets me" thing. Other owners always think their dogs are innocent, but they're not watching their dogs' body language.

 

There are other body language signals that send a "tense" message to dogs like yours and mine. I watch Buddy's posture when he greets other new dogs: he definitely pulls his neck back, puffs out his chest, and sends his tail arching over his back. When he meets other dogs who stand the same way, it's much more tense. I suspect the generic boxer posture sets Buddy off, because it's such a puffed-out chest kind of look. There are other dogs who approach with a much more relaxed, friendly posture, and Buddy does better with them.

 

Buddy is ALWAYS worse on the leash - probably because I'm monitoring his greetings so carefully! - but he will, occasionally, get aggressive with a really tough dog off leash.

 

Another thing I notice very strongly is that Buddy will often give signs he does NOT want to meet another dog. He'll walk away, and act very interested in sniffing the bushes. I know enough now to tell other owners, "He doesnt' want to say hi." If I give him that buffer zone, he's absolutely non-aggressive. He will not aggress against another dog who gives him a circle of personal space. It's not always possible to provide this, but it's very reliable, and lets me only take the dog into situations where I know he'll be successful.

 

So... all in all, I'd say keep a VERY close eye on all dog situations and try to see subtle actions that are leading to the reactivity. You might never be able to "cure" the dog, but you will probably be able to get the situation under control. I recommend "The Other End of the Leash" as a guide to body language, and "Calming Signals" by Turid Rugaas to help understand signals your dog might be giving to calm himself or others down.

 

Good luck!

 

Mary

[Rye]

Sorry, what's agbeh???

 

I'm really confused .

 

Tucker can be like that. Some dogs set him off. I *think* it has something to do with intact dogs though...

[sweet_ceana]

I am not the best advisor when it comes to agression, we are working through some problems w/ agression ourselves, but I did want to remind you to take a good look at your pup and a deep breath and then smile. It can be so fraustrating not knowing what it is that you aren't doing to make this stop. i know it can really get to me, so when all seems hopeless just emerse your self if your pups love for you.

[Beth G]

Another thing I notice very strongly is that Buddy will often give signs he does NOT want to meet another dog. He'll walk away, and act very interested in sniffing the bushes. I know enough now to tell other owners, "He doesnt' want to say hi." If I give him that buffer zone, he's absolutely non-aggressive. He will not aggress against another dog who gives him a circle of personal space.

 

Exactly how Popcorn is. The only two other things that set him off are, unneutered males.(He is totally subservient to females) and any dog that messes with Pepper in any way that upsets her.

 

As for certain breeds he doesn't not like the "in your face" breeds like pitts and he hates me making a fuss over them if they greet me.

[DukeDog40]

I have had the same troubles with Duke lately. Today he snapped at a Boxer! ( Maybe it's a Boxer thing with Border Collies) I pulled him away and held him on his back until he calmed down. When it happened again I did the same thing. He seemed to learn to leave the boxer alone. He only does this with larger dogs it seems. I know how you feel though! Good Luck!

[bc4pack]

Rye...

Agbeh and Shy-k9s are 2 e-mail forums that are part of Yahoo Groups ( yahoo.com) One just has to search for a

group that you might be interested in and 'apply' for membership.

Agbeh stands for aggressive behavior in dogs.

 

There are quite a few dog related lists on yahoo...some better than others but for example lists like Clickersolutions

has over 6000 members; there's several raw feeding lists; training lists; dog sport lists....

....and there are Livestock Guardian lists... you name it.... and these are only the dog lists!!!

 

Tara

 

As an aside I've heard that Donna Duford's DVD on dog body language is really good, know it's available

at http://www.dogwise.com

[nowwown]

Thanks to all for your great ideas and insight.

 

I learn so much from these boards! I am going to really focus on dog body language (it's hard enough to "read" humans, let alone dogs! ) and also try to figure out what the pattern is here. I'm convinced that it's larger dogs, boxer-types and maybe the puffy chest/dark face combination is upsetting him. I hadn't thought about "only unneutered males" or anything like that and now I will.

 

Any other suggestions or ideas are welcome!

 

I work for a book distributor so I will try to get my hands on some of the suggested books. I also joined (just got approved) the Agbeh Yahoo group.

 

Again, thanks!

[urge to herd]

Once when I had Sami had a dog park, there was a little scuffle between her and a cattle dog. There were several people standing and visiting with each other as our dogs sort of sniffed around us.

 

I just happened to be watching the dogs instead of chatting, and I noticed that the cattle dog was carefully approaching each individual dog, growling very low, almost under his breath, and staring at the other dog until the other dog moved away. When he got to Sami, he did the same thing, she didn't want to move, and he lit into her!

 

If I hadn't been watching for a couple minutes just before this happened, I would have said that Sami had gone after him, but I knew that he had instigated it, and now, with more dog watching experience, I know that he was looking for a fight.

 

Observation is always a good thing!

 

Ruth n the BC3

[nancy in AZ]

On three of the last four Saturdays I've been handling a young adult female bc mix at the weekly adoption event of our local rescue org. It's a very tragic situation which I won't detail here, but suffice to say that being confined to a kennel after getting surrendered along with her brother has been very detrimental to this dog's emotional state. On Sat. I learned her brother had been put down after biting one of the kennel employees. So now, not only has she lost the stability of her home, but the comfort provided by her sole remaining companion as well. With each passing week her chances of having a successful adoption seemed to be dwindling.

 

At the adoption events this dog has displayed some defensive behaviors with other dogs when approached. Last Saturday a couple who had recently adopted a 4 month old pup had seen her picture on the website and came to look at her. They wanted to see how she and the pup would get along. I could see the tension in her body language when they approached with the pup, so I suggested that we take the dogs for a walk together and keep them engaged and focused on moving forward rather than on one another. As we were walking alongside one another, gradually I dropped back and allowed my dog to sniff the pup who was now walking in front us. Then I instructed the couple walking the pup to do the same as we passed them. By the time we got back my dog was tolerating the pup so well the couple decided to take her home. Yesterday I was forwarded an Email from the adoption coordinator sent by the couple. So far they say she is settling in nicely. She and the pup are playing (she will still administer the occasional well-deserved correction) and things are going great.

[KrisK]

Jazz seems far more reactive with boxers and 'unruly' black labs more than any other dogs. That being said, he had a great time this weekend with the Lab/Shepherd/Husky/BC dog that was at our place this weekend. I have really tried to concentrate on reading my dog's body language. It is VERY sutle but the more you do it, the easier it is. I have a book by Turgid Rugaas, called Calming Signals which has been helpful. She also has a DVD which I might get later on. One of her suggestions (I think it was in her book) was to videotape your dog so you could learn to read the signals he's giving. This might be especially good when Cody is being good with other dogs. It might help you see what is different when he goes into an aggressive mode.

[Maizy]

Just sent you a private message.

[laurie etc]

Jazz seems far more reactive with boxers and 'unruly' black labs more than any other dogs.

 

I see this with a couple of my own Border Collies and lots of other BC's in our classes. Border Collies generally like the world to be "in order". They can be "control freaks" but most often just don't like other dogs being "out of control". They take special offense to unruly "rude" dogs (many time Labs, Goldens, Standard Poodles or Boxers) who do not read "Border Collie" signals to keep a distance or calm down; or dogs who insist on bounding forward or intruding with hard eye contact. Observe your dog, and you will see subtle signs that there is stress or uneasiness before it ever escalates into a defensive manuever. Ears flicking back; licking lips, yawning, dilating pupils; efforts to either stare or break eye contact; these subtle signs and others all signal uneasiness on your dog's part. Try to anticipate this; step up to the plate for your dog (block the other dog's access visually or physically) while diverting your dog's attention to you, and praising him for letting you be the one in charge of the perceived chaos. He needs to know that you are his protector, and he can count on you to be in charge of these situations. Dog parks (IMO) are the worst scenario for this happening - uneducated owners letting uneducated (rude) dogs run rampant. JMO.

Laurie