Brandi Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Wiley is a Tri BC. He has a pretty rich copper color instead of the tan. I was told by a herding trainer and a gal that has raised BC's that there is no such thing as a BC with copper markings. That Wiley must be mixed with an aussie. Now I have searched the internet and herding dog websites and have found several BC's with the copper markings and E-mailed them to her. She still doesn't understand how they got to be that color because in her mind there are only 2 colors B/W and Red. How do I explain to her how they were "created" anyone have a good genetics website? Here is Wiley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 As in this color? This is Tess at about 5.5 months old. She is a smooth coat, tri-color bc with ticking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 I'd really question her as trainer...send her this site; http://bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/ColorGen.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandi Posted November 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 LOL Yes MaryP as in that color! She would say he was an Aussie/Heeler (Because of the speckled nose) I want to try to educate her but she is a tough gal that is kinda set in her ways. She has never seen a Tri so they don't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 I have a bropther and a sister who both think that way. If they do not have personal experience with it then whatever it is doesn't exist. People like that often thnk they are the be all end all of everything never allowing for anyone else's experience. Ignore her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Hmmm. How can I say this nicely? Your trainer doesn't have a clue what she's talking about! Border collie tri markings can vary from very light (cream-colored) to a deep tan/copper. I have one whose facial tri markings are very light, and his legs are more a coppery color. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Here's one example of a working BC with rich copper markings. Psssss Don't tell this Welsh Nationals competitor that these colors do not exist within our breed. Kinlock Farm Photos - 2009 Welsh Nationals - A-Ll-Evans' Sam IOW the people who told you this are full of ____! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
workindogs Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Purebred border.....very copper. Your herding trainer doesn't know what she's talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 my copper trimmed Rosie takes offense to your trainer! What a dummy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Find another trainer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC-Liz Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Find another trainer! Agreed, Rhea and Gunnar would also like to prove her wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Oh good grief! Where do people come up with this stuff? I agree with the others who have said find another trainer. The one you've been talking to is showing an extraordinary amount of ignorance, and that's putting it politely. Tell Lark that tris can't have a rich copper (and since I have her pedigree and know her parents, I can guarantee you that she's a purebred border collie): I wonder if your trainer would also be shocked to learn that they come in red tri too (although her tri markings are more on the tan end of the spectrum)? Also a purebred, registered border collie. And Willow, whose lovely copper points have faded to a pale tan as she approaches her 13th year, though you can still see vestiges of the rich copper color she used to have: J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Wow... your trainer is clearly a moron, and probably shouldn't be breeding/training if he/she doesn't realize that Border Collies come in any color!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 There's a well-respected trainer out here that thinks merles are double dilutes, but I would not call them a moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizmo Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 I was told by a herding trainer She has never seen a Tri so they don't exist. These statements amaze me. I guess we know what 'type' of border collies she trains? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 There's a well-respected trainer out here that thinks merles are double dilutes, but I would not call them a moron. Oh, I don't know. Moron is pretty much what came to my mind when I read the OP (not thinking the OP is a moron, but the trainer sure seems to be one). J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 There's a well-respected trainer out here that thinks merles are double dilutes, but I would not call them a moron. Well that's a first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 There is no such thing as a double dilute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 There is no such thing as a double dilute. There is in horses, and the term is used in other breeds like Dachshunds and Danes. I don't know what it means in those dogs - have also heard the Dach's called "double dapples". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaderBug Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 There is no such thing as a double dilute. In horses it turns a sorrel into a palomino into a cremello/perlino or something like that, I do believe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 There is no such thing as a double dilute. Errr, Actually, there is. "Contrary to a popular myth, especially held in England and some European countries, the white Collie is not defective. The only color that can occasionally result in a defective dog, is the double dilute. The double dilute lacks color pigmentation and sometimes can be deaf or blind or both. They are a result of breeding two blue merles together, thereby doubling up on the merle gene." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Julie, If I may, that red dog is stunning. 13??? Oh good grief! Where do people come up with this stuff? I agree with the others who have said find another trainer. The one you've been talking to is showing an extraordinary amount of ignorance, and that's putting it politely. Tell Lark that tris can't have a rich copper (and since I have her pedigree and know her parents, I can guarantee you that she's a purebred border collie): I wonder if your trainer would also be shocked to learn that they come in red tri too (although her tri markings are more on the tan end of the spectrum)? Also a purebred, registered border collie. And Willow, whose lovely copper points have faded to a pale tan as she approaches her 13th year, though you can still see vestiges of the rich copper color she used to have: J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 Errr, Actually, there is. "Contrary to a popular myth, especially held in England and some European countries, the white Collie is not defective. The only color that can occasionally result in a defective dog, is the double dilute. The double dilute lacks color pigmentation and sometimes can be deaf or blind or both. They are a result of breeding two blue merles together, thereby doubling up on the merle gene." If you are going to quote an "authoritative source" it is appropriate to include a reference; it gives credit and allows readers to form their own opinions on the information and the source. This is especially critical for infomation found on the internet which is rife with authoritative sources. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 If you are going to quote and "authoritative source" it is appropriate to include a reference; it gives credit and allows readers to form their own opinions on the information and the source. Mark Well, the authoritative source (your term) is me. It's quoted from an article I wrote several years ago. I have e-mailed the entire text to the Liz P and would be happy to do the same for you or anyone else who would like to read it. It has pictures in the file and they did not get included in the e-mail format used on the "used profile" page for the OP. My e-mail address is crocutamon@sbcglobal.net and I would be happy to send the entire file, text, pictures and all by return e-mail to anyone who wants a copy. If you want info from any other source, I invite you to Google "double dilution merle" or "double dilution whites." It is certainly not necessary to take my word for it! There is a great deal published on the subject. Good hunting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted November 2, 2009 Report Share Posted November 2, 2009 You mean homozygous merle, not "double dilute," as there is no such thing. The only people I have seen using that term are puppy mills and BYBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.