Gluing dog's ears? This made me crazy.

[Shetlander]

I do believe that taping a dog's ears is at the least uncomfortable and quite possibly painful.

 

Well, certainly you can and do believe what you want to believe. I never taped, so can't speak to how that affects a dog. When I glued my Shelties' ears. I saw no sign of discomfort. They never minded me messing with their ears. They never rubbed or scratched at their ears. They didn't run or wince when I reached for their ears. They continued to act like happy, busy puppies throughout the ordeal.

 

I guess it is a personal thing, but I don't see that a certain 'look' is worth even causing discomfort. The dogs don't have a choice, do they?

 

No, they don't. Again, for what it is worth (which could be nothing), I would never do something to my dogs for cosmetic reasons if I thought it in any way caused them pain or discomfort. But it's a novelty to have people think I would. Many people I know tell me they want to come back as one of my dogs in the next life.

[urge to herd]

Because a dog shows no overt signs of discomfort isn't proof that they're not having any. Someone, the name escapes me, has posted in the health section about their dog a dental problem, but the dog never showed any sign of pain. Once the root canal or whatever it was was performed, the dog brightened up and stopped having UTIs, I think it was.

 

Many people on these boards relate incidents in which their dog is injured or ill and they don't know it until the situation is extreme. Shoshone had a whopping big hot spot right under her ear, almost the size of a silver dollar when I found it. I saw no scratching, no face rubbing, nothing. I found out it was there when I noticed that Buzz kept sniffing her head.

 

Border collies especially tend to have a high tolerance for pain, so ISTM that we can't count on them showing no visible signs as a guarantee that they're not feeling something they don't like. For an experiment, tape your own ear, just to the side of your head, so it's flattened against your skull. That's not bending the cartilage nearly as much as taping or gluing for a tipped ear. See how it feels after a day.

 

Ruth

[sea4th]

I used to show shelties. Been there, done that with the tape. I've come to the conclusion that they're all perfect without tape. And we've pretty much run the gamut of ears here:

 

I went from perfectly tipped, never taped, sheltie ears:

Murph:

 

 

 

 

to Ms. No ears. no fuss, no muss ears --- it takes the pressure off to tape.

 

 

To some more of my favorite ears:

 

 

 

[Shetlander]

Because a dog shows no overt signs of discomfort isn't proof that they're not having any.

 

Alrighty, then. We'll just disagree on the subject of whether gluing ears is painful.

 

For an experiment, tape your own ear, just to the side of your head, so it's flattened against your skull. That's not bending the cartilage nearly as much as taping or gluing for a tipped ear. See how it feels after a day.

 

Tell you what, when I have ears like a Sheltie puppy's, I'll be sure to do that.

[BustopherJones]

Tell you what, when I have ears like a Sheltie puppy's, I'll be sure to do that.

When you have ears like a Sheltie, you might find it a disadvantage as far as the dating scene goes...

[kaos]

I think that for me, the big issue with cosmetic alteration justification is that it is the owner justifying it, not the dog. Someone mentioned using cosmetics to enhance their appearance and that is fine because it is the individual's choice. With a dog, they are simply at the whim of their owners sometimes frivolous desires.

 

I have multiple piercings in my ears and have had several mishaps with glue and skin and hair. I can tell you that being stuck at a cottage with your ear fastened to the hair and skin in an unnatural shape is actually very irritating and that yes you do get used to it while you wait during the drive to the hospital and sit in emerg. But that I only had myself to blame. The poor dog doesn't have the choice.

 

The things owners do to their dogs always surprises me. I don't know why we are so stuck on aesthetics, I kinda like knowing that the dog is happy in their own skin an not experiencing any of the foolish insecurities that we impose on ourselves.

 

Sara

[Shetlander]

When you have ears like a Sheltie, you might find it a disadvantage as far as the dating scene goes...

 

Then again, at my house Sassy is Miss Popularity.

[Freeman 101]

You know that sheep do not respect a dog whose ears do not stand up. LOL

 

OH NO!!!! Does that mean we are screwed? My pups ears do the east and west thing (helicopter ears).

 

And just a side note: we don't work stock but compete in agility. It is really interesting to compare the show-line Border collies with the stock-line Border collies in the agility ring. This is just my opinion, but the show-line BC's don't seem to pick up on handler movement the same as the stock lines.

[PSmitty]

I'm not sure where I fall on this. I mean, mostly I just think it's silly. I didn't think it caused any pain, so I've never been against it like ear cropping. I figure let the ears do whatever they're going to do.

 

I guess I'm lucky Alex got these manificent babies, huh?

 

Oh, and I love Jack's airplane ears just as much.

[Debbie Meier]

Ears are a funny thing, on one of the ACD board I remember a new comer getting all defensive after posting a picture of her dog, we all poked fun and just loved those huge ears, nothing wrong with huge ears, but they are funny looking on young pups sometimes and can be a trade mark. People want their dogs to be normal or be recognized for looking "The Part" not for a left of center appearance. In some cases it might be a self asteam issue on the part of the owner, or they may be concerned about how others judge them by allowing their dogs to not look the part. I kinda went through that with Jake, his ear is torn in half after getting into a fight with Riley, I went through the "Oh, god" what are people going to think if we just leave it, then I went through the "Oh, god" what are people going to think if we spend the money to have it repaired. Then I finally thought "Oh, god" it's not what they think, it's what I think. Jake will live his life with a torn ear, he don't really care. And the dog people I surround myself with don't really care, but if I was wanting to show him I would need to care, it would affect how competitive he is, or if I surrounded myself with people that judged me as not caring because I did not have it repaired it might have changed my decision. If a person is looking to either compete in the breed ring or if it is important to them that their dog looks the part, so be it, they don't have to justify it me, why, because I don't feel that I should have to justify my decisions to them. In reality it's all about peer pressure and the need to fit in. We run into it with the ACD's, "my puppy is six months old and his ears arn't up, what's wrong with him", followed by the taping and tampon advise, where as we don't care, Reggie had a floppy ear, the ear leather was thicker on one ear then the other, didn't change his ability to do what we required of him. Now if we required him to be a show dog, we probably would have had his ear repaired. The only reason that people have to justify anything is because other feels the need to question, you know it's not acceptable to answer, "Because I wanted to."

 

Deb

[Shetlander]

Then I finally thought "Oh, god" it's not what they think, it's what I think. Jake will live his life with a torn ear, he don't really care.

 

Interesting about the ACD world. I never would have thought ears were an issue. Goes to show what I know. 5 years ago, my Sheltie had one of her tipped ears torn in a fence fight. I took her to the vet who said he could sew up the 1 inch tear. I asked, "Does it need to be sewn up?" He said it would only be for cosmetic reasons to avoid having a notch. I don't think I even hesitatied to skip having the tear sewn together. The vet gave me antibiotics to take home and Sassy's ear healed nicely with a small notch and a tendency to stand upright much of the time.

[Debbie Meier]

I think that in most cases, people think they are doing the right thing. They see the dogs owned by people they look up to as having the right look, and then look at theirs and think that they did something wrong. So to be part of the club, they fix it, no big deal. If they understood that what they think is the right look is only right to those people and in that fish pond they may have not been concerned, guess it goes back to the old "you don't know what you don't know". Also, regarding the justification, in most cases they are just repeating what they are told or rather what they believe is true. Personally, I don't believe that forming the ears with tape or glue causes pain, it might annoy the pup, but once adapted to the annoyance it really just accepts it. I think that in most cases it's being done before the cartilage in the ear is set in it's shape, with our dogs, sometimes they are in full up, sometimes tulipped full forward, sometimes set to the side. We let the weight of the ear and the tighness of the skin on the head decide how the ear will end up, with the ACD's it seems like they will be flopped earred until the skin tightens up either with age or weight, the size of the ear will also influence how long it takes for it to go up, our little fox eared pups usually are up at a few weeks, where the big eared dogs might go up and down for over a year. IMO, When you tape them or glue them your just taking the other factors that influence the final stance out of the picture, and giving the ear a memory based on a consitent form early on.

 

Now, if they were doing the same thing as the Saddlebred horse show people, physically breaking the tail and then setting it so that it assumed a particular carriage, then I'd be a bit more against it.

 

I have a feeling that it bothers more people on these boards simply due to it being an indication of a show type person, not really anything to do with the dog or if it causes true pain or inhumane manipulation. One could argue that the pointing out of the possible pain would be justification to be against the procedure, based on the dogs I have here, I don't see where the pain arguement holds up. Like I said, we don't set our dogs that have the wrong type of ear, but not because of concert for pain or discomfort, it's just not important to us. If it was important for our dogs to have the right type of ear it wouldn't bother me to tape or glue them.

 

Deb

[ItsADogsLyfe]

I don't have much to say on the ear gluing thing except I have seen/heard of incidents where the ear becomes raw and and has caused sores. My Mother in law glued her shelties ears and it was a mess. They ended up standing erect after all the gluing anyway.

About the altering dogs for show purposes. I once worked exhaust for an ACK trial and a woman approached me and said she loved watching my Border Collie work. She had show Border collies. Then next sentence was "have you ever thought about showing him?" I said why? And then I said he could never be shown even if I wanted to as he has no pigment under his eyes. She then said "well that can be fixed." I just said well now that wouldn't really be ethical now would it?

Seth has airplane ears I guess. I've always thought with his white face and the black only going over the top of his head from ear to ear, that he looked rather like Sister Bertrille, the Flying Nun. He can't fly, but he sure can run fast!

[Debbie Meier]

And then I said he could never be shown even if I wanted to as he has no pigment under his eyes. She then said "well that can be fixed." I just said well now that wouldn't really be ethical now would it?

 

It's a beauty contest, ethics are a personal deal, it might be illegal, but only a problem if you get caught.

 

Deb

[sea4th]

It's a beauty contest, ethics are a personal deal, it might be illegal, but only a problem if you get caught.

 

Deb

 

Kinda like those toddler beauty pageants?

 

[theshine]

I like the look of tipped ears on a sheltie, but taping or gluing isn't something I would do. Having shelties I'm used to hearing about it, but I remember thinking what a bizarre thing to do when I first heard of it. I really can't imagine going to all the trouble, even though I'm not convinced that the dog feels any pain or discomfort.

 

All my dogs are natural, Ripley has "perfect" tipped sheltie ears...

 

Frosty has prick ears, and I admit I was disappointed when they first went up, but he's still my favorite dog...

 

Shiner has airplanes...I love them, and I love prick ears on a border collie too...

 

And then there's these on my aussie...everyone raves over them, but my lord, I wish they would fall over....she's a serious dog with some serious drive, but she gets to go around looking like a goober for the rest of her life...

[sandra s.]

Predictably, I'm strongly against it. For me, it violates something that should be kept "sacred", for want of a better description. Something to do with respect. And I agree with everything Sara (kaos) wrote.

 

Besides, I would not enjoy looking at Kessie half as much as I do, if some part of her had been tailored to match my "preferences". She is what she is, with her two different ears that look funny when she trots and look wild when the wind blows. I think I'm more than lucky enough to be allowed to watch them as part of my every day life .

 

 

As for chopping bits off (tail or ears) or any type of "cosmetic" surgery, I think that goes way beyond "preferences" and people should be punished for it.

[desertranger]

I could match my preferences in ears. I have genetic material for Fuzzy Naturally semi-pricked, Bas (down), Surra (down), Fuzzer (1 semi the other down), Glynnis (Up), Chelsea naturally tipped) and all the rest. They wold look exactly as I want, exactly as they did when they were alive. Some with tipped ears and some without.

 

What's the point? They wouldn't be the same dogs.

 

What's point with glued ears? So you can have a dog like in the photographs or to sooth the shattered ego of some AKC judge?

 

I think gluing ears creates problems. It's bad enough BC'shave problems with their ears if you don't take care of them. I think you're going to introduce more.

 

My theory says that each dogs ears are shaped for that dogs hearing, like fingerprints.

[Laurelin]

Since we're showing off random ears, this is my favorite, cowlick and all.

 

 

I boarded her with her breeder and she tried and tried to get that cowlick to lie flat. She couldn't, it always curls like that. It drives her crazy but I love it. It's so random.

[Mark Billadeau]

Artificially creating or meeting a look is not my thing; but if someone wishes to do it I really don't care (as long as it is humane). However I find it hypocritical ("we're breeding for this look"), and ineffectual, when the result of an artificially created look is put up as ideal breeding stock to pass on that look. When in reality they are breeding for a body type that can be manipulated into the desired look.

 

Mark

[Jumpin Boots]

And then there's these on my aussie...everyone raves over them, but my lord, I wish they would fall over....she's a serious dog with some serious drive, but she gets to go around looking like a goober for the rest of her life...

 

 

Since we're showing off random ears, this is my favorite, cowlick and all.

 

 

If your aussie had a bit more ear hair...those could be pap ears. I love them both, so adorable in their natural ear way.

[theshine]

If your aussie had a bit more ear hair...those could be pap ears. I love them both, so adorable in their natural ear way.

 

I've thought they look kinda like pap ears too...I'm sure I'll get used to them, she's in a lanky stage anyway, once she fills out and grows more coat I have a feeling they'll look better on her.

[bcnewe2]

QUOTE(SS Cressa @ Mar 23 2009, 07:04 PM)

I not sure why you are comparing kids to dogs? Since there is a ton of thing we do to our dogs that is illegal or frown on to kids.

 

You are right - I over-reacted because I feel strongly about the working Border Collie and the whole "looks" issue.

 

 

QUOTE

- You don't spay or neuter your kids

 

This might not be a bad idea at all for some folks and some kids.

 

 

QUOTE

- I am pretty sure child service would be call if you put a kid into a kennel for 5 hours or left it alone for any period

 

Way too many people leave their kids unsupervised way too much as it is. A kennel might be a better alternative to what some kids get involved in.

 

 

QUOTE

- LOL It is pretty frown upon to train your kid to go potty outside

 

Actually, there is a movement that believes in training babies (some anti-diaper group or something) and they teach them to go outside.

 

 

QUOTE

- And I not sure but I think it pretty icky if you only bathe your kid 2x a year and NEVER trim their hair.

 

You got me on this one. However, I think a lot of our olfactory hygiene preferences are based in our upbringing. What's appealing for some is not necessarily appealing to others, and offensive smells and so forth may be a part of how we are trained, not our actual natures. Maybe. Thank goodness most people stay pretty clean.

 

 

QUOTE

- or work them for hours on end sheep when they are only 2

 

That's more the equivalent of 14, and a kid who knew how to work (and I've known several) can put in a bunch of good hours at hard work, and maybe even enjoy it (but maybe not as much as a Border Collie).

 

 

QUOTE

- and I think you would get pretty odd looks it you told your friends you train your kid tricks for 15 min a day.

 

Depends on the tricks!

 

 

Ok guys I'm going to admit something that I hadn't thought about in years. Sue you should really get a good laugh...I don't know about the rest

So way back when my son was born we thought he was darling, absloutly perfect! Red haired fine boned and perfect little ears. Skip a few years and he's about 3. He woke up one day and his ears had decided to turn into helicopter ears. I fretted like any young dumb Mom. He was going to get picked on in daycare or school for sure.

 

SO....I came up with this great idea that I could tape his ears. I hadn't heard of this in dogs yet, only dobermans and I'd only seen tampex type tubes being taped into dobes ears, and that wasn't going to work.

So i tried, I kept taping them and he'd just pull it off. We laughed and laughed. I finally gave up and taught him a great trick. Probably took longer than 15 minutes! His trick??? He'd fold his ears down on the top and up on the bottom and stick them into themselves and they'd stay. He figured out that part on his own. The trick we taught him to do was to blow on his finger and his ears would pop back open. It was quite the party trick, he did it for years on demand! Later in his young teen years we'd remember his trick and ask him to do it. he of course would refuse as any good teenager would. Then he got to about 16 or so, and I caught him doing his trick for his friends one night in his room. He also admited it was an icebreaker for girls. Yes we are a strange family but laughter is one of our best family traits!

 

His head finally grew into his ears and they don't stick out anymore but he can still do his ear trick when the notion strikes him. Maybe we should breed him? Or I've seriously thought about neutering him. But I think he might resent me for that one! Sure would be easier than worrying each time he goes out on a date!

 

This is the same kid that in early childhood one of his favorite toys or games was to have me lock him in a dog create and he'd take a nap. No one ever came over that didn't know he wanted to be in there but lordy had some stranger drop by, I'd probably still be in jail, he on the other hand would still be laughing.

 

Back to dogs.....I love prick ears. Don't own a dog with them but sure wouldn't turn one down if the rest of the breeding fit. Dew and Micks ears are almost prick when working but quickly fall when they walk off the sheep.

I've never been lucky enough to have a dog with my prefered looks but darn the rest of the package sure makes up for any ear issues that we might have! Heck, I've even thought of shaving my rough dogs into smooth, to bad it doesn't work that way! Wonder if glue or tape would help??

 

OK....sorry, but this move has killed me and I really needed that laugh, hope at least Sue was laughing with me. btw....what tricks have you taught your kids or grandkids. I've taught Covi my 2 yr old grandson to give the dogs commands while I stand there. He has the same tone as I do so the dogs listen. It really freaks people out when they see a 2 yr old commanding 4 dogs and they're all doing exactly as he says. I've been thinking about using a clicker but I don't know what to use as treats! Or who to treat, him or the dogs!

 

back to doggy ears......

[Laurae]

Hey Kristen, are you here yet?