Dogs are not cargo.

[Rave]

Well obviously getting thrown from trucks is not the only thing out there killing dogs. No one claimed it was. It is preventable. All of us on here would hate to see a dog suffer, which is why most of us are adament about protecting them.

 

I think some people are just anti-gov't, no matter what the issue is. When we first put in traffic cameras in NC, people were up in arms crying "Big Brother". Some people are so quick to call foul, they don't even stop to think it out rationally. I'm not for legislating everything, but where it SAVES LIVES like seatbelts and helmet laws, then yes, some people need saving from themselves. My mom was saved from injury once because she wasn't wearing a seatbelt; however, she realized instances like that are the exception, not the rule and always wore her seatbelt.

 

-Laura

[Dixie_Girl]

And all of the examples I gave are preventable. No, I am not "anti-guvment". But it has gotten to the point where everyone expects the guvment to fix everything. When Reagan said the guvment should not be financing the soup kitchens and food closets and flop houses, everyone screamed he was trying to do them in. That he didn't care diddly about them. That they would all starve! Well, they didn't. The communities who had the homeless got together and started providing for their own! Wow! What a concept! Some nut tries to kill the President and wounds one other person and ta-da, we got the Brady bill. Why? I didn't do it! A nut case did. Listen, accidents happen all the time. But we are getting to the point where we will have to wrap our kids in bubble wrap before we let them play in a fenced yard! Ya, know, I really wonder how the hell my generation and all the ones before mine survived! No seat belts, no helmets, no knee pads. I mean, jeeze, our skates locked onto our shoes! Ya know how much they hurt when they came loose while flying down the side walk?

[Dixie_Girl]

Speaking of those traffic cameras, a guy in SF got a ticket in the mail for running a redlight. They sent him a pic of him going through the red light, so he sent a pic of the money to pay his fine. So they sent a pic of hand cuffs! LOL He sent the money in. I would have sent in a pic of a "get out of jail free" card!

[Pipedream Farm]

Your "don't infringe on my personal rights? is butting heads with my ?don't make me pay for your carelessness?.

 

Without these laws our tax money is going to pay for health care for those injured due to not using common sense in protecting themselves (people are under insured or not insured and my insurance goes up when you use your coverage). If the government(s) NEVER pay for health care for injuries due to not choosing to use available protective gear; then I'd have no problem with dropping these laws and allow "natural selection" take its course.

 

Mark

 

Added later:

 

Increasing the national seat belt use rate to 90 percent from the current 68 percent would prevent and estimated 5,536 fatalities, 132,670 injuries and save the nation $8.8 billion annually.

 

We all pay for those who do not wear seat belts. The higher health care and insurance costs that result from unbelted drivers and passengers involved in crashes get passed along to everyone. For example, the costs of hospital care for an unbelted driver are 50 percent higher than those for a driver who was wearing a safety belt. Society bears 85 percent of those costs, not the individuals involved.

 

Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration

Just another "big brother" lie.....

[Kyrasmom]

I'm not necessarily in favor of all laws, there's a spay/neuter law in my county that bugs me BUT I also see the big picture. There are lots of stupid people who need a law to pinch them in the butt, or relieve them of their dogs, to get things right. Is it fair to me as a good pet owner, NO, but do I think the animals that are in the long term protected, YES. So, once I realize that the world does not revolve around me, I grumble and make peace with it..because either way, I already abide by the law.

 

Dogs should not be put in the back of a pick up truck...but if you must, do it on your property so the worst that happens, is YOU kill/hurt your dog.

 

I have seen a dog jumping into traffic from a pick up truck, he was lucky and the cars were at a traffic light, but it didn't change that he jumped and could have endangered himself or caused an accident. I have the same issues with people walking their dogs off leash near busy roads, sure, the dog heels fine most of the time, but what about that one time that he doesn't? Forget the dog, forget the stupid owner, but if he's out in public...it involves others.

 

Maria

[sandra s.]

Dixie Girl, GR - I'm going to stay out of this because I feel far too passionately about these issues (I'm truly terrified of the world the "safety first" people are trying to create), but I'd like to express my support .

I couldn't agree more!

[nancy]

OK, you will face the consequences. Let me put you in the back of that pick-up, with padded mittens on both hands so you can't hold on and socks on your feet (not rubber-soled shoes). Then I'll drive around, with quick starts and stops and tight fast corners.

 

You can do any @#$%^&ed thing you want that puts you at risk. But don't tell me I should blithly run over your dog - or your kid - because you don't give a @#$%^& about that life.

[painted_ponies]

Originally posted by Dixie_Girl:

We have no idea how precious freedom is. When we lose it, we will fight another war like the Northern Aggresion to get them back.

Pssst . . *whispers behind hand to Dixie Girl*. . you do know we lost that one, right?

[Lunar]

Speaking of rights... I'm canadian, going through immigration. All those ammendments and the "probable cause" for search and seizure you get? I don't have any of those rights. Nope. So that's a little bit scary for me.

 

But in any case, I totally see your point, Dixie_Girl and others. I don't want people telling me how to live my own life. HOWEVER, my overriding belief is "an it harm done, do as ye will" - yes, even though i'm not pagan. And I think something as blatantly irresponsible and dangerous TO OTHERS like letting kids and dogs ride unsecured IS something that should be prevented. For all the reasons the other people have said. It's not just the person driving the car at risk. I honestly consider it animal abuse to let your dog ride in the back of a truck. And I also don't think that the general public cares enough - or is smart enough - that education alone would do the trick. Definitely educate them! But I think a lot of people just don't care what happens to their dog. As stated, there are so many people who HAVE had terrible things happen with their dog being tossed out of the truck... and they still do it!! A dog that falls out/jumps out of a truck on a busy street puts YOU and ME at risk. And that's a problem. Dogs aren't allowed off-leash in public for that reason and others.

[Joe Anne]

Thank you Mark (once again), for a rational explanation... when you start talking dollars and sense(ooops! I ment cents!), that is when people start taking notice. Hit em in the pocket, where it "really" hurts everyone.

Hmmm, is there anyone who wants to argue with Mark's statistics about the $$ cost of irresponsibility?

[sea4th]

I posted this before when this topic was discussed a little while ago.

 

Some years ago, when I was still married, we--husband, me and two daughters planned to spend the Thanksgiving holiday with in-laws in NY, some 200 plus miles up the road.

 

My husband drove but not fast because he wasn't feeling good and was on cold meds, so other cars passed us by the entire way up there. The scenario went something like this. As we were driving, I'd watch as a group of cars were approaching from behind, surround us and move along until they passed us and we were behind them. This was the pattern nearly the entire way there. In one of these groups of cars was was an open bed pick up truck with a loose GSD in it. I noticed the dog as the truck passed us on the left. Then it moved in front of us in the same lane. A couple of cars in front of us the driver of the pick up swerved for some reason, causing the dog to lose it footing in the pick up. Remember, they're moving at about 65 - 70 mph. I watched in horror as the dog flew out of the back, bounced off the car next to it, which must have hit it with sufficient force that the dog's body somersaulted toward our windshield, it's chest cavity split open. My husband swerved and the dog glanced off of our side view mirror and I watch as the dog bounced from car to car until it finally came to rest on the pavement somewhere behind us. I doubt that his owner even realized he lost his dog.

 

All these years and I still remember it as though it was yesterday. I've had nightmares as this GSD with his chest cavity split open hurtles toward us--over and over again.

 

If the negligence of the owner isn't enough to slap some fines, and the only way to get the point across to these simpletons that dog's are not cargo, is to consider them "unsecured loads", then so be it. Whatever it takes, although I wouldn't mind seeing cruelty/negligence/abuse be enough to cite some of these jerks.

 

Years later I'm still pissed off enough about that, that if my property ever sustains damage from the body of an unfortunate dog flying out of the back of the pick up truck, I will do whatever I have to, whatever I can, to stick it to the SOB that put the dog --- and me --- in that situation.

 

JMO.

[smileyzookie]

Vicki - That is a gruesome reality that you experienced. Im so sorry you had to. Thank you for sharing your horrible incident.

[Dixie_Girl]

JoeAnne, the money thing, okay, here it is. In CA when I lived there, they wanted the helmet law passed. Commercial after commercial told us if we pass this law our insurance rates will go down. Pass this law so you won't be paying for these injured people. They said if we put a tax on cig. we will see a drop in health ins. cuz that's where the money will go. My car ins. did NOT go down, 6mos later I got a rate increase. The cig tax did go through. Yep, no decrease there either.

 

Sandra,

 

Painted_Ponies, heh heh, yeah, but just barely.

 

Okay, let's look at the dui laws. At one time, any one caught driving drunk, they were issued a ticket and fine, and sent on their way. Even killing someone, they were rarely given jail time. Then a group of people said enough. We don't want these drivers out there killing people. Did they take cars away? No. Did they make alchohol illegle? No. (tried that once, didn't work) Did they say, anyone owning a car could NEVER drink? No. What they did was, increase the fines and jail time and lose of license for the ones actually DOING the crime. They increased the education ads. They talked to high school kids. They did all the right things. I don't want my guns taken from me, but I have no prob with WHATEVER punishment they want to impose on the ones who commit crimes with guns. So that said, if you want to make a law concerning this, make a law that punishes the wrong doers. If your dog jumps, falls, or flys from your vechicle, impose a punishment for animal cruelty. If you cause a wreck, you will be fined/charged accordingly. That way, ONLY the wrong doers are punished. Not someone like GR who obviously has not had a prob with flying dogs.

 

I hope y'all can see the difference between these two ideas. I don't like laws that assume I am going to do wrong. I don't like laws that punish before a deed is done. The law I propose will be just as effective as the one you want. Except ONLY the guilty will pay. You can say well, yeah but if there is a law against it, it will stop people from doing it. No more than our anti drug laws have stopped drug use. No more than our gun law restrictions have stopped gun use in crimes.

[Dixie_Girl]

Vickie, that was indeed a horrible thing to witness. I have a horrible wreck in my memory also, but it involved 4 kids under the age of 8. It is something that stays with you forever.

[Recklessmom]

I saw a guy here the other day with a puppy in the back. It was hanging over the side. It couldn't have been 4 mos. I cringed.

[BigD]

Dixie_girl - while I agree with SOME of what you say I don't think that you still see where everyone else pays for the drunk driver that is now in jail and taking up cop time with processing, paperwork, etc. That all comes from our taxes and I know for a fact that CA's 3-strikes law has backfired in some degree since they are running out of jail space for the dufus that was caught with pot 3 times in a row when they really need to fill the jails with the idiots that have killed 3 people.

 

As for your guns - keep them. But there is ABSOLUTELY no need for automatic rifles with hollow points (and worse) on our streets.

 

There are too many idiots in this world that ruin it for the non-idiots.

 

Denise

[SoloRiver]

Here in North Carolina, kids can ride loose in the back of pick=ups (and of course, all the Hispanic workers) because - get this - they are farm vehicles and not out on the open road.

 

Interesting. So what you are saying is that there is special dispensation for Hispanics? How odd.

 

Dixie Girl -- I realize your moniker is Dixie Girl but "the Northern Aggression?" Please. And by the way, I grew up in Virginia.

[Dixie_Girl]

Denise, I understand what you are saying. But even though we may pay for the jail time, there are alternatives to that. People say, keep illegle immagrants out. Other people say, but who's gonna work in the fields? Well, I say, send out the inmates. Oh, wait, I forgot. They have rights. You can't make THEM work for their board! We are so worried about each persons "rights" that the ones that shouldn't have any, have it all. And the one's that should, cower behind a gazillion locks on windows and doors. The good people far out number the bad. So why do they have run of our city streets? You say there is no reason for auto rifles and hollow points on our streets. You are 100% right. There are however many reasons to have them in my home. They are on the streets cuz the bad guys never got around to turning them in. Just an oversight on their part I'm sure. If you ever get the chance watch an old movie called Red Dawn. When I first saw that movie, I thought no way. That was before 911. But see, that is the way they do it. One gun at a time. Then there are none. Except for the bad guys. If they can smuggle 10 tons of pot in the country, how hard would it be to smuggle in guns?

 

Also, I don't believe they use the three strikes law for pot. I think it is only for violent offenders. Could be wrong. But I agree. Some people are put in that should have alternate sentences. Prostitutes and the men who buy them shouldn't be in jail. Etc.

 

As far as idiots ruining it for non-idiots, couldn't agree more. Like, on a can of lighter fuel. CAUTION: Flamable! Well, it darn well better be! How about on Nytol? CAUTION: May cause drowsiness! Well, if it don't I want my money back! These things iritate the heck out of me!

[Dixie_Girl]

Let me just say this. I don't want to see any dog or animal hurt. I don't believe in treating animals like crap. I just don't want to be legislated to death. That's all. If people let their animals get hurt from riding back there, punish them for that. If they cause an accident, punish them for that. Punishment should come after the fact, not before, on an assumption.

[BigD]

Dixie-girl - like I said, I think we are both on the same page, but just on different sides.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. Wanting to keep your guns because the bad guys out there have theirs isn't right.

 

Denise

[Dixie_Girl]

So when they break in to rape you and your daughter, kill your husband and shoot your dog, what is your plan? "hold on please, I need to call 911". Sorry but I live in the boondocks. By the time someone knew anything had happened they would be out of state! If I lived in town, what do you think the response time is? It's cool though. I understand that you feel the world is safer than it is. Me, well, just don't come 'round my house at night if I don't know you.

 

No, two wrongs don't make a right. But three rights make a left!

[BigD]

hmmm...

 

All I can say is that I'm glad I'm not that paranoid!

 

D

[Lunar]

My dad always said that he'd be more afraid of one of his kids sneaking in in the middle of the night and getting accidentally shot, than a burglar in the house. I personally won't allow guns in my house, or any house my future kids go to. Too many accidents. But that's a different issue. (I'm also canadian, where the gun laws are much different.)

[muddy bob]

If so many of you are so danged concerned about losing your right as freedom loving Amurricans to do as you choose when you choose to do it then I hope that you are taking a serious look at some of the REALLY scary things that this government is trying to do and has done. I'm more worried about the chipping away of real civil liberties than I am of any bloody label on a bottle of sleeping pills. I admire your passion but we're talking about dogs in trucks not the bill of rights.

 

MUD

 

P.S. If you don't vote quit your belly aching!

[Dixie_Girl]

Haven't missed a vote since I was 20!

Okay, it does seem like I am paranoid. I am not. I live on 10 acres, I can not see a neighbor from anywhere on my property. My husband is out on the truck all week. I still sleep with my doors unlocked. Truthfully, I would be more careful if I lived in town. Mud, I know what you mean. I don't like obsess over lables. That was just an example. They are there because someone took a sleeping pill then drove or something similar then sued the company cuz they fell asleep. I too, believe the guvment has too much power over us. But they do because we allow it. And I never once said I thought I should be able to do what I want when I want. I hope you are not getting angry. I mean, we are just discussing this. There is nothing personal here. I don't think because we have different views on what to do about dogs riding in the back of trucks should make us angry with one another. All I have ever said was that people who wish to put their dogs in the back of trucks should be able to. If the dog is hurt, punish that. If they cause an accident, punish that. It's not about doing what ever when ever how ever.