Dogs are not cargo.

[Dixie_Girl]

I agree! For an open pickup. I just thought it strange that it was an enclosed camper shell. I mean what about RVs? And them people drive those things like idiots! Well, most of them!

[prosperia]

As far as I know, it is illegal in Va to allow kids to ride in the back of a pickup o/ trailer. I remember when I was 15 and went cross country w/ my best friend and her family in a pull behind rv/trailer, that we had to stay hidden (ie. no looking out the windows) so that we didnt get into trouble. I think its different for adults though. We knew which states allowed it and which didnt. We actually stopped at Walmart and bought bean bags to put in the back of the pickup, and we laid out there and sunbathed while we were going down the road.

That said,

I would never allow my dogs to ride in the back of a truck. I just wouldnt feel comfortable. I dont even feel comfortable rolling the windows down to where they could fit their bodies out. I suppose I could be a bit paranoid, but it just worries me. Its a personal choice IMOP.

[Nik]

The question I have is...Aren't there seatbelt laws in all states? If so wouldn't riding in back of the pickup fall under the seatbelt law?

 

Last summer I was going down the road and had to cross an old unused RR track. As I crossed a truck coming toward me hit the tracks (at a slow speed also) and "bumped" his dog right out of the truck. The dog was tied up and literally hung until he got the truck stopped and got to the dog. It looked like the dog was OK, but it sure scared the mess out of me. I did notice though that he put the dog in the cab after that.

[Dixie_Girl]

Well, not the BEST lesson, but now there is one more educated dog owner! Glad the poor dog was ok. Could you imagine if he would have been going faster? Thank goodness the dog made it!

[nancy]

No. There is one more dog owner who thinks this was a freak thing caused by the evil railway. That owner will never realize that the dog should have been on a safe tether (the kind that wouldn't toss it out) or inside the cab.

 

My brother is a paramedic. He was out in his front yard - on a numbered route but also the main road in a small town - and saw a dog thrown from the back of a pick-up and injured. He provided first aid and went in the bed with the dog to the vet (at his insistence, for immediate treatment. Luckily, the dog had minor injuries. But, when the owners were leaving the vet, the really thought they were going to put the dog back in the bed!

 

My brother is also impressive. The dog went into the cab. And he still has their license tag number and checks on how they transport pets.

 

He says he wants to put such a driver in the bed of his own truck, loose, with big padded mittens so the human has no more ability to hold on than a dog does. Then my brother will drive around and let the idiot know how it feels to go through tight corners, brake fast for emergencies, and have all that wonderful fun.

 

And it wouldn't be much better in a covered bed.

 

Yes, my dog wears a harness-style seatbelt. Every time she's in any car. Just like my kids did since the day a jerk flew out of a side street, hit the side of my van, and helped us celebrate my son's 6th birthday in the hospital monitoring a fractued scull. Gee, we were going only a few blocks and he was too small for the seatbelt in the front seat and didn't want to be in his harness in the back.

 

I may not be too bright. But I'm trainable.

[Guest grscott]

This topic sure gave everybody a chance to get up on their holier-than-thou high horse, didn't it. I think, frankly, that it's no one's business if someone wants to carry the dog in the bed of the pick-up. Not the smartest thing to do, in most cases, but still none of our business.

 

Regards

[muddy bob]

No one has mentioned yet that there is a significant danger to other drivers when a dog bounces out of the truck bed. If this only affected the dog and dog owner I'd be slightly more inclined to agree with you on this one Dixie Girl. But when someone else's percieved rights to do as they please put me in danger I draw the line.

 

Muddy Bob

[Falcon]

Originally posted by dallys mom:

The worst one I ever saw and I guess it wasn't illegal in FL since they werent stopped @@ They were hauling a table and chairs and a boy between 8 and 10 was switching seats at the table at 65 miles an hour. I couldnt wait to get away from them.

Oh no, it's definitely illegal in Florida, it's just not enforced. The kid bit, I mean, I hae no clue about dogs. To ride in the back of a truck you have to be at least 18 (possibly 16, it's been a couple years since I looked it up).

[Joe Anne]

I agree muddy bob, if a dog falls out of a truck in front of me... BAM, my automatic reaction is to slam on the brakes! putting my life, and others around me in jeopardy!

 

If someone is not wearing their seat belt and loses control of their vehicle with what may have otherwise been a minor correction, that too puts my life in jeopardy!

If a motorcyclist not wearing a helmet gets pelted in the head by "whatever" and is injured and he or she loses control of their motorcyle, BAM, once again, my life in jeopardy!

As far a the government making laws that we may not like, or it seems like the choice is "taken away from us", (major can of worms, by the way!!!) how do ya figure??? you still have the choice to disobey the law, I don't have the choice to not slam on my brakes when an animal or child falls out of a truck in front of me... it's an automatic reflex action. Thank God that has never happened but it very well could, and if it did and I lived to tell about it, oooooh baby, I am not a suing person, but that would take me over the edge to be sure.

[Guest grscott]

Originally posted by Joe Anne:

I agree muddy bob, if a dog falls out of a truck in front of me... BAM, my automatic reaction is to slam on the brakes! putting my life, and others around me in jeopardy!

 

If someone is not wearing their seat belt and loses control of their vehicle with what may have otherwise been a minor correction, that too puts my life in jeopardy!

If a motorcyclist not wearing a helmet gets pelted in the head by "whatever" and is injured and he or she loses control of their motorcyle, BAM, once again, my life in jeopardy!

As far a the government making laws that we may not like, or it seems like the choice is "taken away from us", (major can of worms, by the way!!!) how do ya figure??? you still have the choice to disobey the law, I don't have the choice to not slam on my brakes when an animal or child falls out of a truck in front of me... it's an automatic reflex action. Thank God that has never happened but it very well could, and if it did and I lived to tell about it, oooooh baby, I am not a suing person, but that would take me over the edge to be sure.

What do you mean, "I don't have the choice to not slam on my brakes when an animal or child falls out of a truck in front of me"? Of course, you have the choice. If the action HAS to be automatic, or you make a poor choice, then perhaps you are following too close, and then other parties just might sue you. This whole discussion has gotten somewhat out of hand, in my opinion. Helmet laws? So what, as long as the dufus has his own insurance to cover his head injury. Seat belts? Shouldn't be required for adults able to make their own decision. Show me the statistics relating to accidents involving other vehicles where the CAUSE was one driver not wearing a seatbelt. Dogs in the pickup? Generally not wise, but to get so wrapped around the axle about it? Puleeze.

 

Regards

[smileyzookie]

Originally posted by GR:

This topic sure gave everybody a chance to get up on their holier-than-thou high horse, didn't it. I think, frankly, that it's no one's business if someone wants to carry the dog in the bed of the pick-up. Not the smartest thing to do, in most cases, but still none of our business.

Originally posted by GR:

Dogs in the pickup? Generally not wise, but to get so wrapped around the axle about it? Puleeze.

Its mentality like this that causes the exact accidents we are talking about.

 

I know I, for one, care about dogs in the back because they CAN and DO get hurt often. Dogs cant make the decision to be smart and get in the cab. It is our responsiblity to make those decisions for them. Careless pet ownership really upsets me.

 

And then on top of dogs getting hurt, we have possiblities for accidents when they jump. And what do u mean "you have the choice to hit the brake"? So, we should just run over the dog and not worry about it? I couldnt keep that on my conscience, and I dont know that I'd like to know anyone that could.

 

I would guess from your comments you are a person who lets their dog ride in the back. I hope for your dogs sake (if that is the case) that when you face the consequences for it that your dog will still be alive, and no one will have gotten hurt. And as for someone on their high horse, maybe you should look in the mirror.

[Dixie_Girl]

As some of you know, I am a truck driver. I have driven at least a million miles. I have driven this country border to border and coast to coast. I have seen every kind of driver you could ever describe. I have seen wrecks that were caused by nothing more than stupidity. I have seen everything from bookcases to refridgeraters fall from the back of trucks and trailers. I can predict with uncanny accuracy what a driver will do in a given situation. But I have never seen a dog on the freeway fall or jump from a truck. Not saying they don't just that I have never witnessed it. I suspect that the ones that do must be in rural areas. Or in town. Like the one going over the rr tracks. My whole point is that wrecks happen for a variety of reasons. As far as the motorcyclist getting hit in the head? Helmet or no he will 99% of the time wreck anyway. Losing control of vehicle because of NOT wearing a seat belt? Sorry, they do that regardless. The point is, people need to be responsible for their lives and actions. You say the dogs don't have a say. Well, yeah, neither do the ones in the Iditarod. But they die too. How many "feel good" laws are the American people gonna accept before the constitution is nothing more than a piece of paper from the past written by ignorant people who obviously thought adult people could make their own decisions? Laws for kids is different. Yeah, belt the kids. But I will like to make my own decision on that. I have never said letting dogs loose in the truck was a good idea. I don't want someone else deciding that for me. The constitution says Congress shall make NO law against ownership of guns. So why are there laws against it? Because people want to feel better. Not be better, just feel better. Sure, make a law forbidding people from hauling dogs loose in the truck. Will it stop idiots from doing it? No. Will you have a right to do it? No. What about the laws forbidding ownership of certain breeds of dogs? They took responsible ownership away by taking away the right to own what ever breed you want. Is that okay with you? I've got a well mannered pit bull, very obedient and friendly to people and animals. The next door neighbor has a little ankle biter that terroizes all who come near it. But the pit will be outlawed and I guarentee the little ankle biter will never be. (this is all hypathetical)Why, cuz it makes people feel better. Doesn't matter what reality is, just that people feel better. If you want new laws fine. But how about a law that says stupid people can't reproduce? How about a law that says if you are an idiot you can't drive a vehicle? Those I would vote for.

 

The thing is, educate people, don't dictate them.

[muddy bob]

Maybe we should consider dogs cargo because at least around here unsecured cargo is taken very seriously by the law! And, by the way, I have indeed seen a dog bounced out of a pickup truck. I did some serious swerving to avoid this animal. Maybe not the safest choice GR, but when in panic mode one does not always choose what one may have had one been given more time to reason.

Does anyone know if the unsecured cargo laws apply to animals?

 

Muddy Bob

[painted_ponies]

Originally posted by GR:

Seat belts? Shouldn't be required for adults able to make their own decision. Show me the statistics relating to accidents involving other vehicles where the CAUSE was one driver not wearing a seatbelt. Dogs in the pickup? Generally not wise, but to get so wrapped around the axle about it? Puleeze.

I know a woman whose husband is dead because she was riding in the backseat, passenger side, without a seatbelt. In the collision, she flew forward into the front passenger seat with sufficient force to crush her husband's skull. Anything not tied down inside a car during a collision becomes a projectile - Newton's Laws and all that.

 

And yes, dogs flying out of the back of pickups will cause an accident, even if someone's not following too closely. A safe following distance is judged by how long it would take one to stop should the car in front, travelling in the same direction, decrease its speed - *not* how long it would take one to stop should something fly out of the vehicle in front and come towards the following vehicle.

 

While I'm having a rant , I'm also all for fining people who let their dogs run loose into traffic and cause accidents. Or let their dogs run loose at all near busy roads for that matter - I commute into town from my farm every weekday, and I'm real tired of having to decide either to be late for work rounding up someone's critter or see its corpse by the side of the road on my way home. :mad:

[Guest grscott]

Originally posted by smileyzookie:

Its mentality like this that causes the exact accidents we are talking about.

It's mentality like this that gets laws passed that infringe on the rights of 98% of the population in order to try to control 2% of the population.

 

 

Originally posted by smileyzookie:

I know I, for one, care about dogs in the back because they CAN and DO get hurt often. Dogs cant make the decision to be smart and get in the cab. It is our responsiblity to make those decisions for them. Careless pet ownership really upsets me.

My dog has been hurt working sheep, as have the dogs of some of my friends, but not riding in a truck. Why don't we stop working stock with them. It would be a lot safer for them. A lot of things upset me, but your, and my, responsibility is to make decisions for our own dogs, or whatever, not someone elses. By the way, my dog isn't a pet. He's a worker and partner.

 

 

Originally posted by smileyzookie:

And then on top of dogs getting hurt, we have possiblities for accidents when they jump. And what do u mean "you have the choice to hit the brake"? So, we should just run over the dog and not worry about it? I couldnt keep that on my conscience, and I dont know that I'd like to know anyone that could.

Possibilities of accidents when they jump? Yes, and possibilities of meteorite impacts, lightning strikes, and whatnot. Just run over the dog? I guess a better decision would be to swerve into traffic or brake abruptly and kill or injure humans? You have a choice, if you drive responsibly. Couldn't keep it on your conscience? I guess lifelong depression or ending it all would be the likely result.

 

 

Originally posted by smileyzookie:

I would guess from your comments you are a person who lets their dog ride in the back. I hope for your dogs sake (if that is the case) that when you face the consequences for it that your dog will still be alive, and no one will have gotten hurt. And as for someone on their high horse, maybe you should look in the mirror.

Does my dog ride in the back of the pickup? ALWAYS, the vast majority of the time in a crate, but, on occasion, not in a crate. What this is about is city people trying to tell everyone what is best for them. I will face the consequences of my actions, and always do. The "Nanny State" is alive and, unfortunately, well. Surely you have a mirror in your own home.

 

Regards

[painted_ponies]

Originally posted by muddy bob:

Maybe we should consider dogs cargo because at least around here unsecured cargo is taken very seriously by the law!

Does anyone know if the unsecured cargo laws apply to animals?

I hadn't thought of that, but you're right - let some trash fly out of your pickup on the way to the dump and it's a hefty fine around here too.

 

Dunno if it'd be treated the same, though. A friend of mine got the tag number of a car that dumped two puppies on the side of the road near her house and called it in to the "litter hotline" number (because the penaly would be stiffer than for abandoning the animals ), but the litter police wouldn't issue the fine.

[smileyzookie]

Originally posted by GR:

QUOTE]My dog has been hurt working sheep, as have the dogs of some of my friends, but not riding in a truck. Why don't we stop working stock with them. It would be a lot safer for them.

You and I both know working dogs are necessity, NOT just something irresponsible as letting a dog ride in the back of a truck. You are reaching for extremes in an attempt to validate irresponsibility.

 

Originally posted by GR:

Yes, and possibilities of meteorite impacts, lightning strikes, and whatnot. Just run over the dog? I guess a better decision would be to swerve into traffic or brake abruptly and kill or injure humans? You have a choice, if you drive responsibly. Couldn't keep it on your conscience? I guess lifelong depression or ending it all would be the likely result.

well there is nothing we can do to prevent Meteroie impacts or "whatnot". We can prevent dogs getting injured from lack of responsibility -again ur reaching for extremes. Me driving responsibly doesnt have anything to do with the person next to me driving responsible in some cases. I was a sheriff deputy and a 911 dispatcher, and most of the time accidents where people are injured are from stupidity on someone elses part. So even if I am responsible, doesnt mean that Im perfectly safe. And, to have it on my conscience to kill a dog instead of swerving.. do you have no heart? Or do you just think someone elses mistake should have no bearing on you breaking or swerving?

 

Originally posted by GR:

on occasion, not in a crate. What this is about is city people trying to tell everyone what is best for them. I will face the consequences of my actions, and always do. The "Nanny State" is alive and, unfortunately, well. Surely you have a mirror in your own home.

This has nothing to do with me living in the city. I've only been in the city about 5 months now. So how about instead of facing consequences you make it so you wont have to?

[Dixie_Girl]

Every rural working dog I have ever seen in the back of pickups were usually laying down or sitting. The city dogs are the ones up on the sides of the truck yapping at everything going by. I have even seen dogs on top of tool boxes cuz the truck was pulling a fifth wheel. Usually a horse trailer. They don't wander around the truck. They stay where they are suppose to. So I guess it comes down to the same thing. Some people are idiots and should not have a dog in the truck or any where. Some have trained their dogs to sit and not act like an idiot dog. So why punish the responsible ones? But it is apparent that on this board as across the fruited plain, people will legislate us to death. So they can feel better.

[Guest grscott]

Originally posted by painted_ponies:

I know a woman whose husband is dead because she was riding in the backseat, passenger side, without a seatbelt. In the collision, she flew forward into the front passenger seat with sufficient force to crush her husband's skull. Anything not tied down inside a car during a collision becomes a projectile - Newton's Laws and all that.

Decisions. Shoulda tied herself down. I know of a guy who wanted to see the country in his RV after he retired. He was doing that when a dislodged boulder rolled down a mountainside, crushing his RV, and killing him 6 months after retirement. Another of Newton's Laws and all that.

 

Originally posted by painted_ponies:

And yes, dogs flying out of the back of pickups will cause an accident, even if someone's not following too closely. A safe following distance is judged by how long it would take one to stop should the car in front, travelling in the same direction, decrease its speed - *not* how long it would take one to stop should something fly out of the vehicle in front and come towards the following vehicle.

Ever seen or heard of a dog "flying out of the back of a pickup" and causing an accident? It could happen. I've been to two or three county fairs, a rodeo or two, and a couple of goat-ropin's, but I've never seen or heard of that.

 

Originally posted by painted_ponies:

While I'm having a rant , I'm also all for fining people who let their dogs run loose into traffic and cause accidents. Or let their dogs run loose at all near busy roads for that matter - I commute into town from my farm every weekday, and I'm real tired of having to decide either to be late for work rounding up someone's critter or see its corpse by the side of the road on my way home. :mad:

Decisions and responsibility. If you have to decide between being late for work and rounding up a loose pet, perhaps you are in the wrong line of work. As to loose pets and corpses, loose dogs that attack my sheep will become corpses by my actions.

 

Regards

[painted_ponies]

GR - Nope, never have heard of a dog causing an accident by flying out of a pickup. I was responding to your assertion that JoAnne might be following too closely if she hadn't sufficient time to make a conscious decision as to whether or not to run over the dog.

 

My point in relating the other anecdotes was that sometimes the responsibility for a bad decision fall on someone other than the decision-maker. And the closer we all live to each other, the more likely that is to happen. So we then have to regulate the behavior of those whose actions visit unwelcome consequences on others.

[IronHorse]

Now a law that even I might support would be one that makes it illegal to stick those damn crosses all along the highways,those are quite distracting and are beginning to get way out of hand,,some of them that I have seen present a serious road hazard constructed out of 4x4s and such.

 

GR, Dixie Girl, I agree with you guys on this issue

This "lets make a law to press our views onto others because WE know best" mentality is an errosion of our rights.

Just because I don't personally agree with the actions of others doesn't mean that I should lobby for laws that would make those I disagree with conform to my ideals.

Dogs riding in the back of trucks? big deal.

Its a common sight around here on the backroads,but for the most part the dog/dogs hop into the cab before the truck hits the asphalt.

I just don't see alot of dogs flying out of trucks.

Maybe a law that if you live in an apartment you can't own a dog.

Or if you have less then 5 acres no dog.

All houses owning dogs shall be painted red.

Any vehicle with an untetered animal must have amber flashers on.

Come on people enough with frivilous laws!

 

But all those damn crosses along highways really bug me,especially when i see a van pulled over with an entire family mowing the grass around them and adding some more plastic flowers or a little picket fence around them,now those are road hazards.

[smileyzookie]

I agree with the crosses along highways. But I was thinking what else could they do to that spot to memorialize a loved one? Maybe lay flowers down there or something? But I do agree the crosses are very distracting

[Rave]

When I was working at a vet school in rural VA, we saw several dogs brought in with injuries from being thrown from the back of a truck. Usually wasn't a good outcome.

[Dixie_Girl]

And how many came in with obstructed bowels from the dog eating something he shouldn't have? How many dogs came in with heart worm so bad they had to be put down cuz the owner did do preventive meds on it? How many came in from drinking anti-freeze? How many came in with gun shot wounds cuz the owner didn't keep them penned? How many came in with distemper? Rabies? Flea infections? How many with other probs? What is the pecentage? Where will it end?

 

Me, I would be scared to death of my dog jumping or falling out. But I am like that. Some people have confidence and the dog does indeed stay where he is suppose to. But the point is, you simply cannot legislate every aspect of a persons life.

 

Take puppy mills for instance. Most are shut down cuz the dogs and pups are not well cared for. But what about the "smaller" puppy mills that have adequate food and water and clean living conditions? Do you think they should be shut down? Would you vote for a law saying how many dogs can be bred and how often? Bet you would. But I wouldn't. Not because I think puppy mills are fine. I abhor them. But because I dislike them, I have no right to tell that person he can not have it when he obviously has people buying from them.

 

We have no idea how precious freedom is. When we lose it, we will fight another war like the Northern Aggresion to get them back. If there is still enough people who think freedom is worth fighting for.

 

Like the gun "laws". You don't want a gun in your house, fine, so you vote to take my right away. Because YOU don't think it good or neccesary to have a gun.

[Dixie_Girl]

BTW the above was just an example. I don't mean to say YOU to anyone in particular. It was just an example. Nothing more.