Liz P Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Movement of the modern shown ring GSD. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_z3fgk9bQw&feature=player_embedded#! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCStarkey Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Hello everyone, It is truly disturbing to see what some breeders have created in the GSD. And, then they argue that these horribly disfigured unsound dogs are "correct". Regards, nancy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCjetta Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Wow, that last dog on there can't even lift his hind legs high enough to not drag them when he's stepping forward...either that or he already has neurological problems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MicheleS. Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullet87 Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 I'd like to see all the people that think it is proper for a dog to walk hunched over and dragging its feet walk just like they make their dogs. They should be forced to walk hunched, and drag their toes on the floor and see how they feel after a full day. I'm sure that cannot be comfortable for the dogs... GRRRRR! It still baffles me on how people can take a perfectly good working dog, and force it to become something it's not and completely breed it stupid... :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted November 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 There are 2 ways the average person can get the sort of stance and gait that GSD breeders think is ideal: training or breeding. Given that it is easier to breed for it than have to train each subsequent generation, people breed deformed dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Once in a while, I see a person with a GSD, and they're as proud of their dog as I am. But it actually makes me wince internally to see the horrible gait. I used to think this was a beautiful breed: majestic, proud. Now it just looks warped. Oy. Mary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ancient_Dog Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 That's really hard to watch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Words fail me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelliwic Border Collies Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 German shepherds are breed I really WANT to like, but think that finding one sound of mind and body would be so very difficult. Liz, when these videos are posted we often remark on the dogs' toplines, hips, hocks,...can you explain what is going on with the hocks? I can see it's awful but I don't know what's going on inside, structurally. It seems the dogs in this particular video can't even get it together enough to produce an actual diagonal trot. Dog 1 is pacing...I think dog 2 is actually (especially similar to second horse in video)! The ongoing denial by show breeders that there is something wrong with this...their claims that this is actually "desirable" and "correct"...is just so crazy. If you surround yourself with other like-minded crazy people, does the power of numbers make you right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Megan, what I hear from law enforcement folks when they want to buy a working dog, they go outside the US, at least 50% of the time. It's too hard to find sound temperments and bodies here in the States. It's very sad to see, I don't even stop and chat with GSD owners whose dogs are like that, and I'll talk to almost anyone with a dog! The few 'civilian' GSDs that I see that are fit and structurally healthy are a joy to watch in motion. Ruth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dream spirit Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Amelia Smith had an excellent video several weeks back on her blog showing the G.S. dog over 100 years time. What they were and what they have become. It was just heartbreaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted November 13, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Exactly how their skeleton looks is something I don't know but would love to see. They have a roached back, so their vertebra must have a slight concavity to them. Their pelvis is rotated to an extreme angle. Their back legs are too long for their bodies, even if you corrected the roach back and rotated pelvis. BUT, there is something else going on to cause that gait. If any other breed came in walking like a GSD we would say, "Wow, that dog has severe neurological abnormalities!" Just look at any show bred GSD. They have very little muscle mass on their back legs, no matter how much they are exercised. That is a sign of reduced nerve input to the muscles. Watch them gaiting in the ring and you can see that the muscles of their thighs are flapping around. GSDs do have a tendency for very narrow openings through their vertebra, causing compression of the spinal cord (esp towards the rear). My theory, which may be totally off base, is that breeders unintentionally selected for compressed spinal cords to get the gait they thought was ideal. As a kid I desperately wanted a GSD, but even then I was smart enough to know that I didn't want my heart broken. Sometime in the near future I may be adding a Mal to my pack (the non deformed cousin of the GSD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelliwic Border Collies Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Thanks Liz. So your thought is that the cause of the toe-dragging and weird, weak, wobbly hocks is that it may not be solely due to structural abnormality, but that the structure itself may also be causing neurological issues? I hope I'm expressing my thoughts correctly. If any other breed came in walking like a GSD we would say, "Wow, that dog has severe neurological abnormalities!" Funny, but now that you mention it, I would think the same thing of another breed of dog if it were walking like that. My parents had an Irish Setter some years ago that had a back problem (I don't remember whether it was a pinched nerve/compressed disc or exactly what)--she did the toe-dragging thing too. But I've become so "used to" the GSD being such a physical trainwreck that I had chalked it all up to physical structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maja Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 Why other breed? When I was at a show and I saw a GSD like that I thought "oh poor thing!" Maja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 If you surround yourself with other like-minded crazy people, does the power of numbers make you right? Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted November 13, 2010 Report Share Posted November 13, 2010 My brother used to have the most gorgeous GSD named Brutus--big, healthy, strong. He never looked like the ones in the video. He lived to a ripe old age and was one of the sweetest dogs I've ever known. These dogs definitely look deformed. Poor things. What's wrong with people?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 I have always loved German Shepherds and if they did not look like this so often, I would probably have them rather than Border Collies. It breaks my heart every time I see a middle aged GSD that is lame yet the spirit is willing, my husband and I could not bring ourselves to have a dog that would end up lame. At agility trials I often see a large GSD dog who is jumping 12", and I always wonder how a dog that was bred to be athletic ended up this way ( I know the answer but it does not make any sense) . Yet I live next door to a working GSD a bomb dog, who I love but she came from Belgium at vast expense and a federal grant to the state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 Megan, what I hear from law enforcement folks when they want to buy a working dog, they go outside the US, at least 50% of the time. It's too hard to find sound temperments and bodies here in the States. Ruth That is no longer any guarantee. I've known people who bough Czech and German dogs and they were severely dysplastic by the time they were a year old. Most of the law enforcement around here uses Dutch Shepherds or Belgian Malinios now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 I followed some links one day to find GSD's in many European countries, particularly Eastern European countries. In terms of conformation, the photos shown of prominent (show?) breeding dogs showed the same sort of exaggerated build and gait as these dogs in the video - horribly roached backs, walking on their hocks, etc. This isn't just a US or North American problem - it is a show-ring spawned problem that has affected dogs in many nations. I've said it before and I'll say it again - a major problem I have with competition, particularly conformation competition in virtually all breeds, is the trend towards extremes - at the cost of health and well-being of the animals. Any perusal of winning animals of many breeds over time will show this detrimental trend of extremity, all while those who believe in conformation also believe that they are "improving" the breeds they show and reproduce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glennkopp Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 I think Sue is right. It's less of U.S./Europe difference, and more of a showline/working line difference. It seems the "classic" black and tan saddle patterned GSD has gone the way of the show. The sable and black GSDs are still used as working dogs and have a better structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoresDog Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 I saw a beautiful German shepherd working in the Atlanta airport last week, reddish brown with black saddle, similar to but bigger than the lovely dogs I've seen working in the Rome, Italy, airport. He was just gorgeous, and he had a topline like Rin Tin Tin's. The Rin Tin Tin image comes from a Terrierman blog entry on the same subject. It is quite weird that people are breeding the beauty and health out of this great breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
in2adventure Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 I was at a dog park last winter and there was a GSD puppy there. The dog was massive and extremely out of proportion for it's age. The poor thing ran around on its elbows and was in obvious discomfort. It couldn't keep up with the other dogs, had a hard time turning and just moving in general and looked so sloppy and disfigured The poor thing looked like a dog running with flippers on his front feet. The woman was as proud as can be about the thing and bragged about the "show litter" it came from and his potentional in life. I wanted to throw up All I could think was, she's going to have to put that poor dog down in the next year because she's not going to be able to carry his 100lb body in and out of the house to pee. You could see other folks at the park pointing and wispering about him too. Very sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 ^^Well the breeder must have been one heck of a salesperson! J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Good Shepherd Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 I guess I chime in here since I do have 3 of theese beasts I whole heartedly agree with everything said here. 99% of the "serious" GSD breeders want that look! I belong to the NM GSD club, and one of theese days I will be kicked out of the club because I am so outspoken about what they consider a GSD! There are a handful of people with GSD here that "Do" things with their dogs, like herd, track, obedience, rally! Would our dogs ever do good in the Breedring? Heck no, we would be laughed out of it, but heck, at least our guys can do what the are bred for in the "old" days! I see the same thing happening to the BC's you wait and see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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