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dream spirit

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Everything posted by dream spirit

  1. I sort or remember reading that birdsfoot trefoil has some properties that help keep worm loads down
  2. welcome back Amanda....Thank you Bob for your time put in.
  3. Lana, you have a good point. Often when I read threads about what "others" are doing or "showcasing" about dogs used for breeding I wonder how did they know this about these "breeders" ? I think if your turning out several litters a year maybe you should not be throwing stones at others either. I sort of keep to myself and don't really go looking for trouble . I don't breed much at all and really labor about anything I might plan to breed. So, I have never been contacted by a broker and guessing I never will . I am pretty sure I would be able to screen out a broker, but I know sometimes you can get fooled and there are people who know what to tell you, and you could get duped by them . Some might even be just a bad as selling a pup to a broker and breed a pup too young to know it's full potential or breed too much ...you can only do what you can. The only way of fully protecting yourself from this is to never breed at all.
  4. Barb Armata is located in NY , Lives not too far from Warren. You may also look for Nancy Obeiner .She is located in coatsville PA. I don't know is she gives lessons outside of friends though. Lyle would be a great person to work with. Bruce and Linda Fogt might be with in you driving range Joyce Geier is in western NY near Rochester.
  5. shocking to me ...dogs SURE have gone up in sales price! How old is this dog?
  6. then maybe the working dog clubs could put money aside to either compose video and or written information showcasing the producers who do use these dogs and how they can be benifit to a larger scale operation. They can be submitted to ranching/farming publications or farming/ranching symposiums ?
  7. right, and there is good strong population of Bob's and Lana's out there. I don't think that will go away . But even if we know what makes a good dog that is not to say it will stop the others, the sport/herding type handlers who are breeding dogs to stop breeding them. I said from the start I don't think it is bad to have MORE farms and ranches using dogs out there, but having the ranching /farming community we have and had, is strong enough to keep the dogs we know , I don't think it is going away. The toughest trials in USBCHA/ CBCA and dogs that excell at this level will also keep the working dog strong . I agree with all that has been stated other than the farming ranching community will die off and we will loose the dog we know and admire. I just don't see this happening. I also think your kidding yourself if you think people are not breeding Novice type dogs. I hear of it quite a bit .
  8. I don't think anyone is saying to breed grit out of a dog. What I don't understand is that why grit and bidability can't go together? I guess all I was trying to say was that I think there is a strong population of ranchers and farmers out there that use dogs, know their value in a livestock operation and will keep this "gene" pool alive and well. Other than loosing farmers and ranchers due to them leaving because they can't make ends meet I think they are always going to be a strong factor of keeping our dogs as we know them. For me it is more lean to the other side of the coin that I feel is the true threat to these dogs as we know them and that is the people who get these dogs , dummy down a herding course, breed dogs that can wear sheep to a handler or win a Novice class.That is what will change the dogs we know and admire.
  9. okay I'll just head back into lurking mode. But... just wanted to say that while each and every sentence is being pulled apart instead of reading the message as a whole, I was saying that if more farmers/ranchers had dogs it would be a good thing but I don't think that the working dog is in trouble as it is at present and has been here for years past here in North America. I just am not seeing HOW this will be the downfall of our dogs as we know them. There will always be Frarmers and Ranchers who know the value of a good dog. Are not most of our USBCHA/ CBCA top handlers, who on occassion breed litters, sell started to fully trained dogs not considered farmer/ranchers too? Are they not doing a good job with our bloodstock? What then, IS a Farmer Rancher? Does it mean you need to have 500 or more head ? I am just not understanding how our breed as we know it is going down the tubes or thriving due to more rancher / farmers using or not using these dogs . Are working dogs with an On Off switch less of a dog, A weekend dog? There is plenty of down time in farming livestock and or things that are better off doing without a dog. (I'm sure I'll get ripped apart for that statement) Like I said , I think it would be a great thing to have more ranchers and farmers using dogs. But is is a select few dedicated farmers who will get the most out of dogs. I think the real problem is Farming /Ranching is dwindling at an alarming rate because of cost factors and profit margin for farmers and ranchers. More and more farms and ranches are going under each year because the just can't afford to do it anymore.
  10. I did not say there were NO farmer/ranchers using dogs, wanting to use dogs or take the time to learn HOW to use a dog for their operation. I just don't see this as a more or less being used ( these dogs being over here as long as they have ) by farmer /ranchers impacting what we know as the working border collie as a breed overall. weekend warrior dog.: one with no stamina to be ABLE to do the work needed of a dog in a farm/ranch situation. I don't think people as a whole here in North America are breeding such a dog ( weekend warrior). At least not the bloodstock I would be interested in. That was what I meant by making the comment that "breeders" are breeding ( or trying to ) quality animals that can work all week on a farm and go to a trial weekends. That also raises another question about people who are "Breeders" versus people who "breed" working dogs.
  11. Interesting. A few questions So we want to educate the ranches and farmers out "there" That is great, great for anyone who plans on using these dogs for a livestock operation. Perfect job for our dogs A pup for such a person, I think not. A fully trained dog is needed that will get the job done, and be able to do it with a relative Novice to working dogs . So how much will said dog set the farmer / rancher back ? Hmmm, most likely more than a farmer / rancher is willing or able to afford would be my guess. Have you noticed how much a really good fully trained dog is selling for these days , if for sale at all? How many of these farmer/ ranchers are going to be willing and dedicated enough to learn how to get the most out of the dogs they now have? Most farmer/ ranchers have their operation set up that they don't really NEED a dog per say. So while it is a romantic notion of ranchers and farmers incorperating these very useful and capable animals into their farming it is also a very few and select number of said people who will be able to afford one as well as educate themselves and use a dog(s) to their full capabilities. I lean to what Wendy suggested in that there are strong lines of dogs being produced here. It is an idividual choice to a farmer/rancher if they wish to employ a dog. There could be a double edge sword if the farmer/rancher witnesses what a good dog is able to do in a farm/ranch situation yet is unable to reproduce it on their own farm. I embrace the idea of what has been put on the table, just not sure about the reality of it coming to fruit. The breed has been around here for a while, there must be more to it than farmer/ranchers not knowing of the usefullness of Border Collies by now ? The folks who ranch/ farm AND train, trial dogs successfully to the USBCHA / CBCA levels are the true guardians of keeping the "working" in the Border Collie breed in North America. I am not sure if it's fact North America is breeding weekend warrior type Border Collies because there is not a large interest or need in working dogs through the farmer/rancher population. I don't think it's a bad thing ( educating farmer/ranches to the value of a good dog) at all but I also don't think it will effect the breed if the farm/ranch community does not have a real interest in using dogs for their needs.
  12. Bill , while it does read on Valbazen to not use on early trimester...is it safe to use in the situation of after lambing? I was considering using it this year over Ivomec.
  13. Gloria, I had read shortly after the bird/ fish kills that there was a poision gas "Phosgene " that was being stored at a military base in Arkansas, that it was being transported and there was some sort of malfunction with the plane shortly after takeoff which "may" have released some of the chemical into the air...then a short time after John Wheeler (who was satated as an expert in chemical / biological weapons ) was found dead because he was a whistle blower. Now this most likely is just media hype as was "the end of the world" hype that was flowing just before this hype about the kills. Anyway that was what I had read and never gave it more thought . Just figured anothe screw up from Uncle Sam!
  14. thanks Wendy, I knew Jeannie had a pup off Guff. Lyle never mentioned to me that she had one. I did not know Scott was training up a few. I am glad to hear the line is still strong. Deigh was a great dog for me, I miss her terribly. Yes she did leave me too young . Cancer sucks!
  15. Thanks Wendy, Deigh had grip but was a good trial dog for me.She would at times "wolf" the sheep and cause them to be flighty, but it was more her way of coming on than her gripping. Was not Cass cross,though. She was quite black too.
  16. I thought they had found the fish / bird kills were related to some toxic nerve gas leak from a munition facility ?
  17. Deigh was my dog from about 2 1/2 years old till last May when I lost her to Cancer. She was a great dog with tons of grit and "get 'er done" attitude. I really miss her quite a bit. I have two daughters from her and love them both.
  18. Pam, your questions are akin to sticking a hot poker into a hornets nest I think money , pride are two words that come to mind. As to "big hats" breeding without the highest of standard or selling pups to sport homes and not getting flack for it is because the ARE big hats. Unless they are standing on a soapbox and berating others while they themselves are doing it it is out of anyones control but the big hat who breeds and sells this way. I feel that there is not much that can be done about what someone else is doing with their dogs, unless it is so bad it calls for disiplinary action. We just need to focus on our own dogs, do right by them as we see it. When all is said and done that is really all that matters
  19. thank you , not looking for the paper on the dog , I had a daughter off him and was just curious (now that she is gone) who she may have took after more. I'm thinking her daddy .
  20. no one can offer me any info on Turk? I am sure he is long gone but would be interested in any info on him . Based in Va. I believe, and was one of the set out dogs for the '99 Finals. You can contact me off the board. Thanks
  21. looking for any info on this dog. Thank You
  22. Amelia Smith had an excellent video several weeks back on her blog showing the G.S. dog over 100 years time. What they were and what they have become. It was just heartbreaking.
  23. Tom Hoeber (sp?) located in western upstate NY I think has started fooling around with making all wooden crooks . I saw him at a trial in July and he showed me a few of what he had made.They looked nice enough to me.
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