New to the forum, plus new puppies

[ShoresDog]

Not to downplay the value of getting a well-bred pup, but don't forget that puppies also appear in rescues.

 

Yeah, I still wish I had gotten on a plane to North Carolina to get this boy!

 

Plato

 

(I've got a daughter there, so it was truly under consideration. Didn't make my move fast enough though! )

[Aquarius89]

Here is a young boy in Norfolk.

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displa...i?petid=9947856

 

And here are two brothers in the same shelter. They must be adopted together.

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displa...?petid=10072494

[Scotimus]

Here is a young boy in Norfolk.

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displa...i?petid=9947856

 

And here are two brothers in the same shelter. They must be adopted together.

http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displa...?petid=10072494

 

Funny that you pull that up. I tried the SPCA in norfolk. The first one didnt get along with the beagle, and the beagle gets along with everyone, even the cats. When they saw how the two of them reacted, they said no way.

 

As for the other two, I had even printed out the page to take with me. When I asked about them, they said they had no idea what I was talking about, and that they dont update petfinder that often. Seemed like a load of crap to me, but oh well. I've been back several times since then.

[PSmitty]

Sorry to hijack...RDM, I was wondering about that gorgeous pup! I'm glad you found a way to get him to you.

[MrSnappy]

Yes, thanks to many helpers!

 

You want him?

 

RDM

[Janba]

Scotimus,

Even if this isn't a merle-to-merle breeding, there must be doubling up of white factoring or merle to white factor to get that much white. If you go through with getting these pups, I'd have then BAER tested for hearing and probably have an ophthalmologist check their eyes as well.

J.

 

Or a doubling of the patterned white. We have a lot of almost white BCs here and they have no more health problems with regards to deafness and eyes than darker dogs.

 

I would also avoid litter mates unless you have a lot of time to spend on them individually. There has been a lot of good advice given here.

[Janba]

Scotimus,

ETA: I am picking up this cutie on Saturday - he's just 5 months old!

 

RDM

 

Sorry to hijack. That pup is so like my dark boy was at the same age minus the white toes.

[stockdogranch]

RDM is quite right. If you are looking for a pup to be a companion-type dog, then it really does make more sense to go the rescue route. Often they have pups, maybe slightly older (like 4-5+ months or so), and by then you can get at least a bit of an idea what they might be like, temperament-wise. Puppies are a crapshoot. If you are looking for a serious working stockdog, getting a pup from parents you know and like the working style, etc., might not be *as much* of a crapshoot, as in that case, you're looking more at the working traits than just personality. But for a general all-around dog, rescue is the way to go.

 

Normally, I would say that we're (the general consensus of these boards) sorry that we kinda freaked you out about the pups you posted about, but in this case, I really am *glad* that you are freaked out by this breeder; there are nothing but huge red flags there. Thanks for listening. The right pup/dog will come to you,

 

A

[Michelle K]

Hi! I can't add anything to what has already been said, but I did want to tell you welcome to the boards. I, also, want to wish you the best of luck with this. You've been given fantastic information and I agree with the others about this breeder and about littermates. I hope you keep us posted on what you decide. The people here are wonderful and can pull together to help you find the right match.

 

Well said, RDM!

[SoloRiver]

As someone who has both rescued and bought (and has a 12 week old puppy from a nice working breeding at the moment) I will contribute this:

 

(1) There's an awful lot about personality and temperament that are a matter of nature, not nurture. Raising a puppy yourself is no guarantee that you will be able to mold that puppy into exactly the dog you think you want.

 

(2) I am more closely bonded to the Border Collie I rescued as a young adult than probably 99.999% of dog owners are to any dog, regardless of the age of the dog when acquired. You will have no trouble bonding to an adult dog if you go the rescue route.

 

(3) The breeder you have been in touch with sounds like a terrible breeder and unless you want to support the practices of someone who is fundamentally irresponsible, therefore contributing to the problem of pet overpopulation, I would say "no thank you" and walk away and look for a dog from somewhere else.

 

(4) I would be very very leery of puppies with that much white on them regardless of whether they are homozygous merles or not.

 

(5) I would never get two littermates at the same time, no matter how much time and money I had. I'd rather concentrate on one puppy at a time, and having multiple dogs and a new puppy myself I know that it is already an issue making sure she is not too bonded to the other dogs and not bonded enough to me.

 

Good luck.

[Katelynn & Gang]

Heart dogs always find their way to you. Rather it be from a breeder, a rescue, shelter or your back door step, they find you. Give it time, these little "road blocks" you keep finding are probably just because "that dog" that you are looking for so hard just hasn't found its way to you yet.

 

Thanks for listening and good luck. You made the right choice.

 

Welcome to the boards.

 

Katelynn

[theshine]

Interesting. I understand exactly why you want a puppy, and exactly why you want two. I also looked in rescue first and didn't find what I wanted, or rather, when I finally found a dog I liked in rescue, I was rejected for not having a fence. I ended up getting two sheltie puppies from a breeder a year ago, I wanted the chance to raise them and mold them and socialize them myself. I wanted to have a hand in what they would become. I also wanted them to have a friend along the way, and I figured, since I wanted two dogs eventually anyway, I might as well get all the training over with at once. I did it, and nothing disasterous happened. I got them housebroken, I got them trained. They're nice dogs, they get along great and take the edge off of eachothers energy a little bit. But I am sooooo over puppies right now. They don't even look cute to me anymore at this point. For my third dog I got a 10 month old BC, and he's been great. It took alot of looking though, months and months, to find the right dog and a place that would adopt to me. He came with a little bit of training and no apparant issues, and I guess I got lucky, mine has an "off switch". As much as I enjoyed my puppies, I think I'll go with a slightly older dog from now on. Despite being a higher energy breed, he's still been easier.

[diane allen]

I agree with most of what's been posted here - and am glad you're seriously considering the very sound advice being given! In defense of rescues...I've had four dogs as an adult (me, not them!) all rescues. I love(d) them all dearly, and they were wonderful all in their own ways. However, my true "heart" dog came to me at age 3.5 yr. One hour-long walk, and I knew she had to be mine. She is absolutely everything I've ever wanted in a dog, and so strongly bonded to me, I swear we can read each others' minds. She is a supreme agility dog (still competing at age 12), but mostly, she is my pal, my soulmate, and my best friend. I can't imagine life without her, and can't imagine her being rescued by anyone else with as much satisfaction.

 

As others have said, there are rescue pups out there - and yeah, it's all a crap shoot. But at least you can aim high!

 

Best of luck, and thanks for sticking through all of these posts!

diane

[G. Festerling]

Cool thread with lots of info.

 

Out of 6 Border Collies at my house at the moment, 2 I have raised, from inception even. One I bought as a pup. The others are either rescues or fosters. Others than my brand new girl that has only been here for 2 days, there is no difference in bonding. Sure, individual dogs may take longer but that is true for any pup and has nothing to do with rescue or breeder.

Take your time and check out the rescues. There are sooo many cute pups. It may take a while till you find what you are looking for but it is worth it. And it is fun searching. Plus it saves a life. How much better can it get!

When I lost my two old companions breeding was out. My last litter was 4 years ago. And I was looking for something specific. So I went and purchased a pup from a true working and trialing breeder (by the way, I paid $500 for her and the list of titles on her dam and sire is longer than my arm plus I saw both work with my own two eyes and was blown out of the water, so $600 for a pup with no background is outragous to me!). I had to wait for for a whole year and even then he was not sure that there would be a pup available. So it was a roller coaster. I got lucky, and although she is different from mine, she is all I wanted and more. Great on stock and loves agility as well.

There are so many things in your breeders ads and response to you that raise a red flag. Frankly, I had lost interest in that breeder, the minute I saw the pics of the pups. Not because they are not cute and cuddly but the inordinate amount of white of the whole litter is telling. Then reading the ad, did me in for sure. She has no clue or is flat irresponsible. My advice also is to stay away from her.

[kate40541]

Welcome to the BC boards Scotimus!

 

I don't have anything significant to add to the excellent advice you've already been given except to agree with it all. When you find the right one for you whether it's a puppy, a teen-ager, or whatever age you'll know so be patient. One thing about rescues that I've learned is that they never forget you've given them a chance to have a great life and lots of love and that's hard to beat.

 

Suzanne

[PSmitty]

Yes, thanks to many helpers!

 

You want him?

 

RDM

 

Of course I do!

 

*sigh* But I can't.... wah!

 

Hey, Katelynn, that's a great post. You're exactly right!

[jvw]

Scotimus,

I'm so glad you came here for advice AND are willing to take it. So many people come here asking for advice, get lots of good advice, but because its not what they want to hear they leave in a huff. THANK YOU for really listening!!

 

I totally understand about wanting a puppy. If you are patient you definetly can find one in rescue, you don't necessarily have to go to a shelter. Perhaps some people more familiar can give you some links to rescue organizations.

 

But another great way to find a properly bred BC is to go to some sheepdog trials. They may not be right in your back yard but there are plenty in your area if you are willing to drive a bit and spend some time. Plus trials are a great place to talk to folks who know BCs from the bottom up. I guarentee you will be mezmorized by watching a BC work sheep on an open field. You can make contacts there and find out when litters are planned or get info on litters that may already be on the ground. Most sheepdog people have no problem selling a pup to a good home even if it won't be working sheep.

 

Be patient, keep your mind open, and good luck!

Jennifer

[juliepoudrier]

Scotimus,

I would like to second what Jennifer said about attending trials to meet handlers and find out about responsibly bred pups. This is a slow time of the year for trialing in our area, but if you're up for a bit of a drive, Sherry Smith has a big trial in March on the eastern shore in Church Hill, MD. It's a real pretty drive going up, and you'd meet lots of really nice people if you decide to go. For additional information on upcoming sheepdog trials, check out the upcoming trials section of the USBCHA website.

 

J.

[Scotimus]

Scotimus,

I would like to second what Jennifer said about attending trials to meet handlers and find out about responsibly bred pups. This is a slow time of the year for trialing in our area, but if you're up for a bit of a drive, Sherry Smith has a big trial in March on the eastern shore in Church Hill, MD. It's a real pretty drive going up, and you'd meet lots of really nice people if you decide to go. For additional information on upcoming sheepdog trials, check out the upcoming trials section of the USBCHA website.

 

J.

 

Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to check out the website. Maryland is only a 3 hour drive or so for me.

[MrSnappy]

But I am sooooo over puppies right now. They don't even look cute to me anymore at this point.

 

Ha ha ha! You sound like me after I've had a litter in my house. When I moved Mona's litter to their new foster home at 6 weeks I actually put a sign on my fridge that said "PUPPIES SUCK." ha ha.

 

RDM

[lrayburn]

Scotimus,

There are a lot of great Border Collies in rescue - especially in the Richmond, Va area! A lot of times, your best bet is to be approved by a rescue and then wait and see what comes along that sparks your interest. Also, if a rescue knows what you are looking for, they can help inform you of a possible dog or pup in another group or even shelter situation. So, even if you don't see what you want today - there are new dogs and pups coming into rescue on a daily basis and your heartdog may be coming in tomorrow.

 

If you would like some additional rescue contacts in your area, send me a pm. The recommendations to visit trials are excellent. There are also several people with working-bred pups from the Virginia area on the board and I'm sure they would be willing to make recommendations through pm or email if you wanted to ask about responsible breeders as well.

 

I'm glad you have taken the one pup at a time rule-of-thumb to heart. I have had several clients who adopted sibling pairs or even puppies from separate litters simultaneously and it has always caused a certain level of conflict. I wouldn't take the risk personally and I like the fact that you can really spend more quality time training and bonding with one puppy at a time.

 

Like RDM, I'm "over" puppies too. My last two additions to the family have been adult rescues and the process has gone so much more quickly and smoothly. I love to snuggle and love on other peoples puppies but live with my adults!

Lisa

[painted_ponies]

Edited - posted picture and link for shelter puppy but just found out she is no longer at the shelter.

[silhouettestable]

Funny that you pull that up. I tried the SPCA in norfolk. The first one didnt get along with the beagle, and the beagle gets along with everyone, even the cats. When they saw how the two of them reacted, they said no way.

 

As for the other two, I had even printed out the page to take with me. When I asked about them, they said they had no idea what I was talking about, and that they dont update petfinder that often. Seemed like a load of crap to me, but oh well. I've been back several times since then.

 

Something else you could try, is instead of just searching the petfinder listings, go to the petfinder page that lists the rescues and shelters in your area and check them out. Sometimes they've got their own websites as well that may be more up to date.

 

I went through the same kind of thing when I was looking for a bc or bc mix puppy through petfinder. The first few I inquired about were already gone by the time I got a reply back. If you keep searching though, eventually the right one(s) will come along. In the last 2 years I've adopted 5 puppies all through rescues/shelters (yes, I am completely certifiable). In my own defence however, I've got years of dog experience, and have raised littermates now 4 times over (rough collies, great danes, bc mixes, and bc's) so I'm still alive to tell the tale. I'm also home all the time and live on a small farm. 2 years ago, the pups I ended up with were mixbreeds that were transported to Canada from New Orleans by a puppy rescue group. A year later I started looking again (for a specific purpose, I dogsled and wanted more pups to raise and to add to my team), and this time I came across a brand new litter of bc pups in rescue. Their mom had been surrendered a few days before giving birth, so I was able to go and see the pups several times as they grew and choose the ones I wanted. 10 months later, the same rescue has donated me another pup for my team from a breeding they did (they also breed registered bc's and trial their dogs). Raising more than one is a challenge to be sure. The pups always keep me so busy when they're little, cleaning up their accidents, having to stop them chewing things and redirect them to appropriate toys etc. To me it's worth it, but I can't really imagine doing it if I was also out working every day. Luckily I work seasonally from home so having all these dogs/puppies works for me. Can't say I'd recommend it for everyone though. But, back to my main point - if a puppy is what you want, my dogs are the living proof that you can definitely find them in rescue. Good luck finding the right one!

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Keep hanging out here. There are tons of dogs coming up all the time. If it were a dog going through my hands you'd just need someone to come visit you at some point and vouch for you, but as many BCs as need homes at the moment, that will surely happen! If I got transportation that doesn't guzzle gas, I would do it myself.

 

There's also a herding clinic in Maryland, sort of near Fredericksburg, VA (ie, right across the river) the first weekend in April. Lots of locals will be there.

 

There's a lot to be said for doing the research in this breed - not just reading the ubiquitous warnings, but also finding out which breeders are legit and which are like buying a hearing aid at Walmart.

[SalemsMom]

Thanks for posting about the events in Maryland. Hopefully I will be able to check these out.