Registering with the AKC?

[PSmitty]

I've got a really quick question...

How does someone manage to dual register if ABCA doesn't recognize AKC?

What am I missing that it is even possible?

 

I think the ABCA will only deregister a dog if it receives a conformation championship? Otherwise you can have a dual registered dog. Or, if you want to compete in AKC events, you can get a PAL (Purebred Alternative Listing, used to ILP) that allows a spayed/neutered dog to compete in their trials.

 

It really is just a matter of personal choice. I put a lot of thought into the decision to get a PAL for Alex (a rescue) so that I could run in AKC agility trials. No, I don't feel great about it, but it was a choice I made for me. I don't blame others for not doing it. I respect that. I don't do agility as much as I do flyball or take stock-working lessons, but I knew that I wouldn't travel long distances for agility trials. AKC is the main venue around here. I think we have one or two USDAA or NADAC trials and the rest is AKC. I also chose to do it, not to support the AKC (though I understand I am, unfortunately), but to support the training club that introduced me to the "dog world" and to be able to trial with the friends I've made there.

[MaryP]

It really is just a matter of personal choice. I put a lot of thought into the decision to get a PAL for Alex (a rescue) so that I could run in AKC agility trials. No, I don't feel great about it, but it was a choice I made for me. I don't blame others for not doing it. I respect that. I don't do agility as much as I do flyball or take stock-working lessons, but I knew that I wouldn't travel long distances for agility trials. AKC is the main venue around here. I think we have one or two USDAA or NADAC trials and the rest is AKC. I also chose to do it, not to support the AKC (though I understand I am, unfortunately), but to support the training club that introduced me to the "dog world" and to be able to trial with the friends I've made there.

 

I'm in the same boat as Paula. I also have a PAL on my rescue bc and compete in AKC agility for the simple reason that it is nearly the only game in town around here. USDAA and NADAC are slowly starting to have a presence and I am actually hoping to finally compete in a USDAA trail in a couple of weeks. But, that will likely be the only trial available to me this year. Like Paula, I don't feel good about giving any money to AKC, but it's a choice that I had to make for me and my dog. He flunked out of herding (actually, he had a bad experience with the instructor and now has an anxiety attack when around sheep) and he and I both very much enjoy agility. So, that is what we do. I hope that USDAA and NADAC will eventually become more popular around here and I will be able to migrate towards those venues, but in the meantime, I'm going to continue to compete in AKC.

 

I think there was a discussion a while back about where we put our money when buying food for our dogs. Though many acknowledged that they are reluctantly giving money to support farming practices that they wish they weren't, they had to make a choice based on what was best for their personal situation and wallet. I feel that I am making a similar choice with my decision to compete in a sport that I love with a dog that I love, even though I am supporting a venue that I wish I didn't have to.

[SS Cressa]

Just pointing out: If your dog has ABCA papers you can get full and/or limited registration with AKC. I not sure but I heard that ILP/PAL can't compete in nationals and I know they can't try out for FCI world teams. ILP/PAL is for dogs without papers.

 

A bonus for AKC is there jump requirements. Cressa is only 17.88 inches (or according to a USDAA judge she is only 16in). In USDAA she would be require to jump 22in which is a little high for my likes. LOL She could walk under 22in with she tail up! While I could just do preferred with her... I think prefer is for dogs that are injured, old, too slow, etc for the regular height.

[Lenajo]

I feel that I am making a similar choice with my decision to compete in a sport that I love with a dog that I love, even though I am supporting a venue that I wish I didn't have to.

 

The question then continues....should, if you decided to purchase a registered puppy, you be punished for this by being denied a working bred ABCA puppy?

 

It's a good thing there's Rescue Then you can get a working bred puppy second hand special without any problems there.

 

Sorry about your herding experiences. My guy herds, but he's weak and worried because that's who he is. He likes obedience though, so we have fun there

[Journey]

Sorry about your herding experiences. My guy herds, but he's weak and worried because that's who he is. He likes obedience though, so we have fun there

 

No, he doesn't like it he thinks the world revolves around it! If his tail was longer it'd be tickling his ears he so happy with himself

[Lenajo]

actually lower jump heights are not good. per some dutch?/UK research quoted at my last agility seminar with a Brit world teamer it's better to have higher jump heights than lower ones. Flatter jumping at speed is more stressful on the joints on landing.

 

I know for a fact that my own dogs jump better when they jumps are higher - they jump rounder, land softer. Low jump incites just what was mentioned above - they drive their wrists into the ground.

 

If the dog is too old and slow to jump normally imo the answer is retirement, not lower jumps. I feel about the same way regarding that as I did when I saw a half blind, chronically lame retired Open dog being asked to run Novice as a "learner" dog.

 

 

 

 

Just pointing out: If your dog has ABCA papers you can get full and/or limited registration with AKC. I not sure but I heard that ILP/PAL can't compete in nationals and I know they can't try out for FCI world teams. ILP/PAL is for dogs without papers.

 

A bonus for AKC is there jump requirements. Cressa is only 17.88 inches (or according to a USDAA judge she is only 16in). In USDAA she would be require to jump 22in which is a little high for my likes. LOL She could walk under 22in with she tail up! While I could just do preferred with her... I think prefer is for dogs that are injured, old, too slow, etc for the regular height.

[Lenajo]

No, he doesn't like it he thinks the world revolves around it! If his tail was longer it'd be tickling his ears he so happy with himself

 

BooBoo da Boone says Kthanx! to you for straightening out Mom's horrible foot work. He says it's much easier to strut er' heel now

[Lenajo]

minor hijack: this is an excellent website article discussing jump height issues and known and anecdotal issues with height versus safety.

 

website

[PSmitty]

The question then continues....should, if you decided to purchase a registered puppy, you be punished for this by being denied a working bred ABCA puppy?

 

I sure hope not, since most likely that's what I want for my next dog.

 

(not Mary, but in the same boat)

[SS Cressa]

actually lower jump heights are not good. per some dutch?/UK research quoted at my last agility seminar with a Brit world teamer it's better to have higher jump heights than lower ones. Flatter jumping at speed is more stressful on the joints on landing.

 

I know for a fact that my own dogs jump better when they jumps are higher - they jump rounder, land softer. Low jump incites just what was mentioned above - they drive their wrists into the ground.

 

If the dog is too old and slow to jump normally imo the answer is retirement, not lower jumps. I feel about the same way regarding that as I did when I saw a half blind, chronically lame retired Open dog being asked to run Novice as a "learner" dog.

 

When I think Cressa needs help rounding her jumps I have her jump 20in.

 

I heard inverted jumping is better on their back then when they jump round and that it is less impact.

 

I don't know thank doG I haven't been there yet but I know I was hoping when Cressa get old but is in good health to jump her in "P".

[ziggzmom]

 

AKC people only care about titles and how pretty their dogs look. They don't care about training "to the next level" they only train for their next title.

 

Hi,

 

I compete in AKC obedience trials because they are basicly the only game in town for that venue. I don't know if the above quote was in reference to herding only or all AKC events, but speaking only for myself, I always train for the next level(and then some) in anything I do with my dogs. I don't like to go into any competition not feeling like we are more than prepared for whatever we are doing. It's not fair to my dog to expect him to do something he isn't well prepared for(whatever that might be). After all, the training and preparationg are what make you and your dog a team. That's what it's really all about, building a partnership with my dog-JMHO.....

 

Janet

[Jumpin Boots]

I know for a fact that my own dogs jump better when they jumps are higher - they jump rounder, land softer. Low jump incites just what was mentioned above - they drive their wrists into the ground.

 

If the dog is too old and slow to jump normally imo the answer is retirement, not lower jumps. I feel about the same way regarding that as I did when I saw a half blind, chronically lame retired Open dog being asked to run Novice as a "learner" dog.

 

Many people never teach their dog to jump properly. You can teach them to have a nice arc whether they are a 16 inch dog jumping 12, jumping 16 or jumping 20. IMO, there are a lot of people that don't want to take the time to teach their dogs how to collect properly and arc for a jump. I don't think just raising the bar is the answer, but it is the quick way and seems like the choice many people make. I do a lot of bounce jump work and work with bars at different length and spreads to teach the dogs body control. While this work may be boring, I have felt that it has really paid off in their muscle structure and running form.

 

I compete in AKC obedience trials because they are basicly the only game in town for that venue. I don't know if the above quote was in reference to herding only or all AKC events, but speaking only for myself, I always train for the next level(and then some) in anything I do with my dogs. I don't like to go into any competition not feeling like we are more than prepared for whatever we are doing. It's not fair to my dog to expect him to do something he isn't well prepared for(whatever that might be). After all, the training and preparationg are what make you and your dog a team. That's what it's really all about, building a partnership with my dog-JMHO.....

 

Janet

 

I always train at a higher level than I compete too. And if that means competing in novice after my dog has qualified beyond it I will stay back to keep my dog successful. However, I'm sure we've all seen people who simply move up because they can whether their dog or themselves are ready yet. I don't think that is the just an akc thing, I see this in our training class with people asking to move into the next class before they are ready and in NADAC.

[Lenajo]

As long as you don't plan to breed I think with some simple research you will find that a working bred ABCA registered puppy or young adult out of very good Open dogs is available to you.

 

You'll hit some snags, but that's normal with any search. Of course I think you should look at Rescues first..... But that's another thread.

 

 

 

I compete in AKC obedience trials because they are basicly the only game in town for that venue. I don't know if the above quote was in reference to herding only or all AKC events, but speaking only for myself, I always train for the next level(and then some) in anything I do with my dogs. I don't like to go into any competition not feeling like we are more than prepared for whatever we are doing. It's not fair to my dog to expect him to do something he isn't well prepared for(whatever that might be). After all, the training and preparationg are what make you and your dog a team. That's what it's really all about, building a partnership with my dog-JMHO.....

 

Janet

[Amelia]

Hello all,

 

The evil empire knowingly promotes disease and wretched suffering in dogs and every single thing we participate in that creates revenue for them promotes it as well. Period. Pugs can't breathe. Boxers have an insanely high rate of seizure. Golden retrievers and German Shepherds can't walk. King Charles Spaniels are born with skulls too small for their brains!!

 

How much suffering does it take for dog owners as a group to wake up and stop the madness??

 

The evil empire sets breed standards for appearance that knowingly create disease and suffering in dogs.

The evil empire promotes and encourages puppy mill registration that knowingly creates disease and suffering in dogs.

 

Until dog owners stop feeding their coffers, they will not stop. We have the power to do something about the 2 million dogs that will be killed in shelters in this country this year. Reportedly as many as 30% of them will come from the very same puppy mills that the evil empire promotes by soliciting their puppy registrations.

 

It is a lame excuse by the sporting dog people, including obedience, to suggest that the evil empire events are the only option.

 

How can you participate in such events knowing that your are financing animal suffering? How can you selfishly chase a meaningless title knowing that as a result, dogs are suffering, dying and being killed by the millions every year. How can you do that?

 

Start your own association or find an ethical one, and stop the cruelty.

[Jumpin Boots]

Wow Amelia, well written. You said it all, I applause you.

[Lenajo]

You only buy dog food with humanely raised meat correct? no factory farm products...

You are eating only locally owned produce correct? and making sure that don't buy clothing or products that are made in third world countries by small children? you only drive a hybrid to trials to not contribute to the gas and oil industry that causes so much environmental damage?

 

When does it stop? When does it end? When will the animals stop suffering because of you? The little children? Does this sound familiar?

 

Glass houses, Amelia. We all live in them. We have to pick our battles. Competing in AKC obedience with a nuetered pet from a healthy work based breeding is pretty small scale. But of course if you can do all of the above, I'll consider stopping that on my end.....

[Shetlander]

How can you participate in such events knowing that your are financing animal suffering? How can you selfishly chase a meaningless title knowing that as a result, dogs are suffering, dying and being killed by the millions every year. How can you do that?

 

The AKC has been saying for years that they lose money on performance sports. I've always found that hard to believe, but they have consistently made this claim. So maybe sports people are actually fighting the Evil Empire and working to end animal suffering by entering AKC performance events.

[Jumpin Boots]

The AKC has been saying for years that they lose money on performance sports. I've always found that hard to believe, but they have consistently made this claim. So maybe sports people are actually fighting the Evil Empire and working to end animal suffering by entering AKC performance events.

 

Well I know the local ack club makes money on their agility events, not as much as the confirmation show, but profit is profit.

[Shetlander]

Well I know the local ack club makes money on their agility events, not as much as the confirmation show, but profit is profit.

 

Those are the clubs affiliated with the AKC, not the AKC itself. My training club makes pretty good money from agility and a little from obedience. The AKC sanctions the trials and takes a cut of the entry fees. My point is the AKC says they lose money on performance events.

[Lenajo]

Those are the clubs affiliated with the AKC, not the AKC itself. My training club makes pretty good money from agility and a little from obedience. The AKC sanctions the trials and takes a cut of the entry fees. My point is the AKC says they lose money on performance events.

 

per my local research most of the money from the AKC trials here goes back to the club for other events - after paying the judges, equipement rentals etc. only a small portion goes to AKC. It is my understanding, from both pro and con AKC people, that the money comes from registrations. That money supplements the competitions. Which...is why AKC is trying to crack out more money from people in the sports with individual dog competitions licenses or something. (not sure at this point, my research on this is barely done as I just heard about it this morning)

[D Strickland]

..

[Journey]

Which...is why AKC is trying to crack out more money from people in the sports with individual dog competitions licenses or something. (not sure at this point, my research on this is barely done as I just heard about it this morning)

 

Yes, many folk are calling it the "Dog Tax" in essence they want $25 per "DOG" to comepte in "any" venue per year.They then want this money to go towrds many things, one being the collecting and freezing of some of the best of the breeds. Now, who determines who the best is? AKC? The Parent Club? The stud dog owners...shees, if a dog is that good the owner is going to have him collected already anyhow! Yes, gool ole ACK...in this economy they are about to add a "Dog Tax" to exhibitors just for the luxury of competing.

[Jumpin Boots]

Those are the clubs affiliated with the AKC, not the AKC itself. My training club makes pretty good money from agility and a little from obedience. The AKC sanctions the trials and takes a cut of the entry fees. My point is the AKC says they lose money on performance events.

 

Right, but it's also the affiliated clubs that pay for all of their show fees. So where is akc losing money? Are they really losing that much in the big shows they host? I know very little about the whole process, but if the affliated clubs are making money and sending fees to akc. Then there should be enough competitors to fill the big shows that akc puts on, so therefore why wouldn't they make money if the little clubs do? Maybe I'm completely missing something?!?

[Shetlander]

Right, but it's also the affiliated clubs that pay for all of their show fees. So where is akc losing money? Are they really losing that much in the big shows they host?

 

I could be wrong, but I don't know that the AKC hosts any shows -- other than maybe the championships? Not sure. Even Westminster is put on by a specific kennel club that is sanctioned by the AKC.

 

As far as where the AKC loses funds, they say it has to do with recording all the data. I think. They always seemed to be charging left and right when I was on my club's board of directors. I know registrations in general have been declining for a while.

[Journey]

Hello all,

 

The evil empire knowingly promotes disease and wretched suffering in dogs and every single thing we participate in that creates revenue for them promotes it as well. Period. Pugs can't breathe. Boxers have an insanely high rate of seizure. Golden retrievers and German Shepherds can't walk. King Charles Spaniels are born with skulls too small for their brains!!

 

Agree to a point on this one.

 

 

Until dog owners stop feeding their coffers, they will not stop. We have the power to do something about the 2 million dogs that will be killed in shelters in this country this year. Reportedly as many as 30% of them will come from the very same puppy mills that the evil empire promotes by soliciting their puppy registrations.

 

OK, where did your numbers come from. I ask because PETA and H$U$ say this all the time and me thinks they are lying! Furthermore, from looking at all the new designer registries I think most of the pure unadulterated puppymills register with their own registry now. Which may be why ACK is contemplating a "Dog Tax".

 

 

It is a lame excuse by the sporting dog people, including obedience, to suggest that the evil empire events are the only option.

 

It may be lame, but would you rather someone does "something" with their dog or should it just be a pet, fed, watered, walked? I am not sure where I stand with pet/ACK owners but I know they are some of the best homes and they don't trade dogs out as the wind blows.

 

Start your own association or find an ethical one, and stop the cruelty.

 

OK, define Ethical. I am truly "asking" as even in ABCA we have unethical breeders (puppy mills) and unethical owners (I am not naming names!). I truly don't agree with ACK and what they stand for but I don't know if we can throw stones so broadly either.

 

Karen