Rescued an older puppy

[Pili]

Five days ago we rescued a 7 mo. BC (mix?) puppy from the humane society. He is supper sweet and beautiful, but extremely shy and timid. I am a first time BC mommie, though I have had dogs before: a schipperkee and a great pyranees.

 

Here is a little background on Indy. He and his sister were left at the front gate of the humane society and found by the workers when they got there in the morning. They were five months old and both very timid. They said that his sister was even more timid than he is. According to the med records, they noticed he had a limp and discovered he had a fractured leg. It has healed. His sister was rescued first, so they were separated. They said they did not know if he was housebroken (we have discovered he is).

 

I guess what I am asking advice about is the fact that he won't leave the crate. The door isn't even on it. It almost seems like he doesn't know that he is allowed out of it. He will only drink and eat in the crate. He is starting to venture out on his own, but the minute he sees that we notice him outside of it he scurries back in. It almost seems that whoever had him before either made him live in a crate the whole time or his two months at the shelter conditioned him to staying in the crate.

 

He is actually very calm, and (I may regret saying this, LOL) I wish he were a little more lively. That said, I took him to the vet yesterday and found that he did have an upper respiratory infection, eye infection and an ear infection, but I don't think it will change his tendency to hide in the crate. The vet said it may be that since he is a mix (Australian Shepherd and a little Golden Retriever?) he may just have a really mellow personality. My Great Pyr, who was also a rescue, was very down the first couple of days we brought her home, but opened up after that. I just have this feeling that he was abused in some way. What is the best way to help him overcome this? I have been reading these boards since I brought Indy home, but seem to have the opposite problem of most new BC parents. If any of you have had experience with cases of this kind please help!

 

Here is a picure of Indy:

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

This is our rescue specialty. We generally leave the dogs in their own space for a few days. Meaning if you want to lay on the bed in the hall and only get up to eat and pee that's fine. We give meds with yummy canned foods too. I think it helps. After about a week we will press the issue of being part of the family by putting on a leash and enforcing time spent with us. For a border collie that would be pets under the chin and high value treats. eventually they begin seeking you out. You have to be quiet about it and whisper that sort of thing and they will come completely out of it. Other dogs do help the situation if you have them as they will watch them interact with you and learn routines form them.

 

I'm so glad you rescued.

[Debbie Meier]

It's possible that he feels safe in his crate and in it he does not have to deal with pressure or requirements. When I have pups that are that way I always have a light cord with a snap handy, I snap it on their collar and then call them out while placing just a light amount of pressure on the cord, when they come out I calmly and quietly reward them, alot of houpla may send him back to his crate, in his mind houpla/excitement = pressure. You don't want to drag him out, just use the cord to put enough pressure on him to make him want to do something other then staying put, dragging him out will just create resistance and could make him defensive, just put pressure on until he decides that he wants to come out, releasing a little when you see him think about it. If he's the type I think he is, verbal incouragement and excitement is just going to put him deeper into his cave, it's not that he does not want to come out, but the pressure he is feeling from the excitement being created is to much for him to handle, by putting a cord or leash on him he will have a little more reason to handle the pressure and come out. Personally I've had more success with patience and understanding then dragging these types out, also, by calling him and allowing him to stay in his crate he is learning avoidance and escape so you don't want to encourage that. Also, when you want to pet him, approach him from under his chin, don't try to pat or pet his head, under the chin will give him more confidence.

 

As to why he is that way, it may not have anything to do with his history, some of my Jake pups as real pressure sensitive and have gone through it, last weekend I took little Jill (9mos, and imature) over to a friends and she decided that there was just too much going on for her to come out of her crate, she'd peek out and you could hear her tail banging the inside of the crate when you called her, I just snapped a leash on her and she followed the lead right out, no sense calling her and allowing her to not come. Once out she was fine.

 

Deb

[Pili]

My real issue right now is that he won't eat or drink outside of the crate. Right now I am allowing it since he is sick, but I need him to learn to go to his dish in the kitchen. Even when I lead him with the leash to the kitchen he merely sniffs at the bowls. When I put them in the crate he eats/drinks deep. I have been using the leash to lead him out of the crate and I then shut the room's door on him (crate is in our bedroom). He will then find a place to curl up, but again, he won't move from that corner if he can help it. Not even for food and drink. I don't want to condition him to think that the food and drink come to him instead of the other way around. When we go outside he is curious and much livelier. I am thinking of waiting another few days for his antibiotics to kick in before I force the issue more. Is that right? Does anybody else have BC pups this age that are quiet indoors and perk up outside? Pyrs are not lively dogs by anyone's imagination, but Luna was much more energetic, and we rescued her at about the same age.

[PSmitty]

Wow, that poor little guy has been through a LOT. Seriously, try to think about it from his point of view. Five days is nothing, nothing at all, as far as the time that it might take him to feel safe and adjust to his new family and home. Please don't rush him. Not even after a week would I force him to come out on leash. In addition to his trauma of being hurt, dumped in a shelter, losing his sister, going home with strangers to a strange place, he is really sick! Upper respiratory, ear infection, etc, the poor guy has got to be feeling pretty darn bad and most certainly accounts for his some of his lack of liveliness.

 

He wants to stay in, and eat in his crate because he feels safe there. He might be more comfortable outside because he doesn't feel so overwhelmed there, for whatever reason. My advice is to give him lots more time. Let him eat and drink in the crate (lots of people choose to feed their dogs in crates, not a big deal) for now. It doesn't mean he will forever expect the food to be brought to him. Once he is happy, settled, comfortable and feeling better, I am quite sure he will eat in the kitchen for you. Please just give him time. Don't rush him into being part of the family just yet. Let him come to you in time. It might take a few more days or a couple of weeks, but I think it's worth it to let him acclimate and adjust. I'm sure you'll eventually have a wonderful, lively, active puppy.

 

BTW, he is adorable and I'm not so sure he couldn't be all border collie. Thank you for rescuing him!

[Pili]

BTW, he is adorable and I'm not so sure he couldn't be all border collie. Thank you for rescuing him!

 

Thank you, I want to give him the time he needs. As for breed, I don't think there is a real way of knowing. He looks like he could be, but he's a big boy for a BC (44.8 lbs) and others who know more about the breed have told me he's a little big. I don't really care, except that it may give me a better understanding of the best way to approach him. Since he is so shy, should I wait until he is comfortable enough to come out on his own to begin training, even if it takes weeks? Also, how do you learn the best type of "work" for a dog like this. I want to expose him to frisbee, flyball, agility, etc., but if this is how he will react to every new situation, then how will I know what he likes to do? The funny thing is that he seems shy, but not fearful. No panting, no drooling, no whining. In fact we have yet to hear him bark.

[Barb Scott]

My real issue right now is that he won't eat or drink outside of the crate. Right now I am allowing it since he is sick, but I need him to learn to go to his dish in the kitchen.

Why is this an issue? All of our BCs eat in their crates... I do have to deliver the food bowls to their crates, but when they're done, Brandy collects the empty bowls and brings them to me; not too much extra work.

Barb S

[bc4pack]

Give this pup time... His young world has just been turned upside down ....new home, new world...

 

Here's a site you might find helpful

 

http://www.fearfuldogs.com

[Ninso]

My dog was almost two when I adopted him from the shelter, but he acted quite similarly for the first couple months! He would generally be either in his crate, in a corner or behind a chair. When he was outside, he did feel more comfortable and was a little more lively, but nothing like he is now. He would eat in the kitchen, but didn't seem to have much of an appetite, and would usually skip one of his two meals. He also had a really bad upper respiratory infection about a week after I brought him home and was totally miserable. I didn't do anything real special, other than give him his space and time to come out of his shell. And it did take TIME! He wasn't fully himself until I had had him about nine or ten months! It was about a couple weeks before he was wag his tail at all, a couple months before he seemed to want to be with me at all, several months before he would come greet me at the door when I came home, instead of hiding and barely peeking his head out from around the corner. I think it really just takes time for some of these dogs. Border collies are very sensitive to changes in their environment and can shut down easily. Five days is no time at all, so I would just be patient. If you want him to eat out of his crate, I would try leaving the food and water just outside so that he has to step out in the open to eat. If he doesn't eat at first, just pick it up and put it down for his next meal time. He will eat when he is hungry enough!

 

Oh, and rest assured, his behavior for the past five days is no indication of how he will approach new situations in the future. I never would have dreamed the first week Lok was home that I would have the high-energy, toy-crazy, driven dog I have now! He went from not playing AT ALL to being completely toy OBSESSED and from not really caring about people at all (even me) to being Mr. Social Butterfly who has to say hi to everyone he meets! Remember though, this took MONTHS so just try not to worry about your little one and be patient with him!

[urge to herd]

I echo what the others have said, give him time. Shoshone was very similar, and if I could reach back in time to give myself one piece of advice, it would be, Don't Push Her.

 

And you are training him, every minute. You're training him that you're safe and predictable, that he can relax in your presence, that there's a wonderful yard to explore. You could try feeding him outside in the yard, if he won't eat, he's too stressed and you'll need to only feed him in his crate. Debbie's ideas are good ones, he just can't handle social pressure right now.

 

Shoshone, for what it's worth, loved flyball, agility, and any kind of training that I did with her. She's got bad arthritis in her front feet, so she was not physically able to train much, but she loved what we did, and still gets excited when we drive by the place where we practiced flyball.

 

Ruth

[KrisK]

You have received very good advice from great people so all I'm going to say is THANK YOU for taking in this lovely fellow. I am sure Indy will become a happy member of the family once he's had some time to adjust. I'll be watching for your next post "HELP....he's too lively"

[theshine]

I recently adopted a an aussie puppy from a shelter, 5 months old at the time...similar situation, she had a sister she was seperated from and she was sick with kennel cough and an ear infection. She was lethargic at first and would basically lay in our arms or sleep the day away. We had trouble getting her to eat. When she was up and walking around she was skittish and if we let her outside she would go under the bushes and we'd have to pull her out after a while to get her back in. After about two weeks she started to perk up, and now after having her over two months, she is a different dog....actually now she's the most hyper dog I've ever seen, lol. I would give this boy some space and time...have him drag a leash so you can lead him out of the crate, or inside/outside if you need to, that's what I did. I would let him eat in the crate right now if he wants to. I think he'll come around, it may take two weeks to two months, but I think it'll happen. He's very pretty by the way.

[Amelia]

Cheers all,

 

Around this time last year, I had an upper repiratory infection in combination with an ear infection. It is the sickest I've ever been in my life. This puppy NEEDS to stay where he feels safe so that he can recover more easily. The only expectation I would have of him at this point is that he get well. If he wants to remain in his crate and will only eat and drink there, that's right where I would leave him.

 

Remember the worst flu you've ever had. Now imagine what it would be like if you were in the home of complete strangers and they were forcing you to move from the only location where you felt comfortable.

 

All animals act strangely when they're sick. Wild animals and livestock will crawl off by themselves where they either get well or die. You won't have any idea what that pup's temperament is until he gets well.

 

Best wishes for him and to you

[Pili]

Thank you to everyone who has responded. This is my first time using a crate on a dog, but knowing this was a high energy breed, I decided to go ahead and get one this time around. I am so happy I did since it is a haven for Indy! I will continue to keep his bowls in the crate with him. I guess I am still learning the "etiquette" of crate training. At least with y'all's help I know that I need to be REALLY patient. I guess that is what comes from having a high intelligence, you don't "get over" things as quickly. I can tell you that this board and Indy are fast turning BCs into my favorite breed. DH and I have talked for years of retiring to a hobby sheep farm, and now we know the dogs we will have.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

So, to add to what's already been said. He is quite sick, so let him just hang out where he feels safe. He will come out of his shell in due time I'm sure. Some dogs adapt right away to their new surroundings and some can take as long as a couple of months. If you want him to be around the family, I wouldn't push him, yet, but you can try to move his crate into the main family area and see how he does. Most dogs use their crate as a "safe haven" and the fact that he's finding comfort there isn't a bad thing. Especially if you have to travel. A dog who loves their crate is a dream to travel with!!!

 

I would also like to mention that how he is right now won't tell you much and you just might end up with a dog in all the activities you want him to be in. I also wouldn't blame his current behaviour on how he was or could have been treated. Some dogs are EXTREMELY soft, but they are still wonderful dogs. Some you could yell and scream at and it wouldn't phase them one bit. I have a shy/fearful dog that I got at 9 weeks. She will always be this way and I know it's not from lack of me trying. That's just the way she is. We participate in obedience etc., she may not ever get to agility, but that's fine, she is perfectly happy doing what we are doing. Just because border collies are classified as high drive dogs, doesn't mean they all are! I really wouldn't worry too much yet, he'll come around.

 

As others have mentioned. Talking in a quiet voice may help him, also if you avoid direct eye contact when coaxing him out, that might help along with no smiling and make sure you give him space. Crowding him may make him un-easy.

 

The website Tara noted is a wonderful resource!

[Pili]

Give this pup time... His young world has just been turned upside down ....new home, new world...

 

Here's a site you might find helpful

 

http://www.fearfuldogs.com

 

 

Wow, this looks like a great site! Thank you.

[Sasha's Mom]

I had a couple of fosters like this... pair of brothers actually, and I had them one after the other in an attempt to get them a little more socialized. Now, I have an incredibly social little girl - her rescue has referred to her as the "cruise director" of our home... it took about a month before either of them would leave the crate, and then it was for minutes at a time. Social Miss Zoe had something to do with it, but we were VERY patient with these boys, and it took thema long time to relax. Ultimately, they did relax, to the point where they were both adopted into good home. But it took a painfully long time.

 

I KNOW you are dying to play with your new puppy... be patient and hang in there - it'll be worth it. Promise.

[Pili]

Last night, Indy and I got home after the kids were in bed. DH and I sat to watch some TV and HE CAME OUT TO SIT WITH US! Thank you guys for your advice on not rushing him. He is definitely starting to open up.

[claire24]

That's great news! The markings on Indy's face look a lot like my Aveda's. So cute! Where in GA are you located?

[Pili]

Gwinnett County.

[PSmitty]

Last night, Indy and I got home after the kids were in bed. DH and I sat to watch some TV and HE CAME OUT TO SIT WITH US! Thank you guys for your advice on not rushing him. He is definitely starting to open up.

 

That's awesome!

 

Did you get him from Gwinnett Animal Control? I'm just curious because I see a lot of Georgia dogs posted over on the BC rescue board. He might look familiar to me, but who knows, we see so many.

[WildFlower]

I am so glad that he came out!

[claire24]

Wow you're not too far from me. I'm in Athens but adopted Aveda from Paulding on the other side of Atlanta. She was lucky to get out of there since far too many dogs don't. Keep us updated on Indy!

[Pili]

That's awesome!

 

Did you get him from Gwinnett Animal Control? I'm just curious because I see a lot of Georgia dogs posted over on the BC rescue board. He might look familiar to me, but who knows, we see so many.

 

We actually got him at the Dekalb Human Society a.k.a. PAWS Atlanta. We went to the Gwinnett shelter, but didn't find a dog that "clicked" for us. We have children, so we had to be careful to choose with the whole family in mind. Indy, despite his shyness is very relaxed with the kids, and they are respectful of him. Indy has brought out a calmness in my son that I did not think was possible. Today they sat on the couch together and just hung out. After reading these boards I was shocked because DS is only two and a half!

 

Today Indy is definitely more comfortable with all of us.

[ErinKate]

Just adding--your puppy is gorgeous!