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Sorry for the length. First post, so providing context. I've been lurking on this board for about a month now.

 

Our 17 yr.old BC X husky passed away about four months ago and we began looking for a new pup about a month ago. Started out looking at mixed breeds and rescues, went out to view five litters and a couple of single pups but no one was jumping out at us until we went to look at purebred BC's. I had intentionally not been looking at BC's because we do not have acreage, but my DH had a contact and well, we, including our kids (11 and 14) all fell in love straight away.

 

I am very much an animal person. I ride horses and have had dogs all my life. The dog would certainly be a member of our family and loved by all, but would mostly be with me. I work at home part-time. We live in a suburb in our own house with a good sized back yard and near a river with miles of trails that we took our Piper to at least four times a week for a five K walk and swim. She had lots of other walks as well. We take our dog most places including the barn three times a week.

 

I have a couple of questions regarding choosing a pup since going to look at a couple of litters.

 

The dogs we fell in love with were at a professional's who had two litters a week a part. Her dogs are working dogs though not herding dogs. Her dogs have to work with many different people so she breeds with temperament in mind. We met a number of her dogs and all of them were happy, obedient and had a lot of character. There were a few pups we liked, but we went to look at another litter of BC's to compare. This time a woman who bred her family dog/bitch for the second time. The stud that was an agility champion. Both very nice looking dogs and though the female was very friendly with us we were told she does often growl at strangers. I asked if she had evered bared and yes she does this sometimes as well. The ad said the pups were very socialized as she has kids. Oh dear.

 

The six and 1/2 week old pups were non-stop chewers. On everything, clothes, body parts, door, stairs. It felt like a den of anxiety. Not one of the dogs wanted to be in our arms, squirmed to get down. At the other place any dog we picked up would kiss and snuggle and calm even if we had been playing moments before. Not this bunch. It was a little disturbing. Now would this be because of the way these dogs are being socialized. Too many kids picking them up too much and letting them chew on them or ...?

 

All this has really got me thinking about choosing the right pup. At the 1rst breeders where we will choose a pup I noticed that the dogs we were attracted to, my husband and I especially were the pups that came up to us, sat and looked right into our eyes as if to say, so now what? It was almost like you could think at them. Our dog was like this. I am also drawn to a more serious dog, but would a more light hearted dog be more appropriate for the family?

 

Any suggestions as to what to look for to know you have a softer dog, that really tunes in? Are the more serious dogs as good with strangers? Any other advice in general?

 

Thx for reading all of this,

Flyer

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I'm headed out the door, but one of the things that jumped out at me was your comment that one litter you looked at was 1. Not bred for herding and 2. the mother "sometimes growls at strangers".

 

As to #1 -> Read the Read This First section at the top of the forums to get a better idea as to why a litter not bred for herding work would be a bad idea.

 

As to #2 -> Behavior can be hereditary and I'm surprised someone who breeds for temperament would knowingly breed a female that had shown aggression. I would run far away from any litter where the sire or dam had behavior problems, especially aggression or fear issues!

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I think a lot of it depends on what you want in your family and what you are doing with the pup, and a lot of Border Collies do love to chew as pups as do alot of other breeds. Since you are not going to be using it for a working herding dog, I would see no reason for you to spend the extra cash for a good one, there are several good pups out there that can be family pets. If you eventually want to use it for agility then you might want to spend a little more and get one bred for it. And you might also want to check out a Border Collie Rescue in your area, I am sure you could find a wonderful young pup or dog there that would do everything you want also, and you would also be giving a home to a pup in need.

 

As for buying from a professional, I would ask first if they are registering with the ABCA or are they Registering with the AKC and that will usually tell you what you want to know about the breeder in my mind. Or it does in my experience

 

You say the one pups are from working parents. What kind of work are they doing? Did you see the Parents and how did they take there commands? I would ask to see both there parents in action, and then you can also see what kind of breeder it is also if the parents of the pups are doing an taking all commands well then you will probably be ok.

 

As for biting an chewing again, that will be up to you to break them of this, I wouldn't worry much about a pup at 6 or 7 weeks chewing.

 

Steve

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Since you are looking for a companion for the next 15 years, you might want to hold off a bit on both litters. If you are getting a young puppy, I think you would do well to either 1) ask around for someone who breeds for herding, or 2) consider a rescue that has a 3-6 month old puppy.

 

We got a 4 month old Aussie (maybe mixed) from a local rescue. He had spent the last 2 months living with foster families and other puppies, was potty trained, well socialized and is a joy to own. Rusty would be very hard to beat as a great house pet. A good rescue can steer you towards a well socialized dog...they know it does no good if you get a pup you aren't happy with long term.

 

6 weeks later, we got a Border Collie pup. His parents come from a work/trials background. Jack loves people, other dogs and life. We've already decided that we're glad we got Rusty before Jack...the older pup plays with Jack, teaches him how to be a good dog, plays some more, etc.

 

I wouldn't get a BC from a sports background. I'd be afraid of getting an off-balanced dog - all intensity, no off switch. I also would NOT get a puppy who's mom was even somewhat aggressive. Why take a chance on needing to train that out of the dog, when there are plenty of good puppies available? If you aren't sure where to find one, ask here for suggestions. The folks I contacted who do trials (and I had to do it via email, since I didn't know of any around where I live) were very nice & helpful. A few extra weeks or months of looking now could give you years of happiness ahead!

 

BTW - I'm not recommending getting 2 puppies. We're in a somewhat unusual position in our lives right now, so it works for us. The link below is for an Arizona BC Rescue...don't know where you live, but I suspect a LOT of rescues have pups under a year.

 

http://www.azbordercollierescue.com/adoption.asp

 

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I appreciate all the posts and will clarify a couple of things.

 

I had already made the decision not to go with the little chewers. 1. Because the mom had aggressive tendencies and two because the chewing seemed frenetic, extreme. I'm not at all concerned with chewing. I expect pups to chew, lots, but I have always provided lots of interesting chew toys and substituted if they decided to eat my shoe, jacket or hand. These pups seemed fixated. The other breeders dogs were the same age and there was none of this at all.

 

The breeder I like is not registered with the AKC. I get that entirely. Also, we are in Canada.

 

I saw both sets of parents as well as a few of her other dogs and they were all so well schooled. Immediate responses to small commands and very friendly and happy. We spent at least a couple of hours there and saw the dogs in the house, the barn and in the fields. I'd call them enthusiastic dogs who love their trainer.

 

Thx, I did read the "Why a herding dog" when I first started lurking and that makes sense.

 

I'm really hesitant to get a BC at a rescue. My personal feeling is that a clean slate would be a safer way to go than retraining, especially since I have children. Am I mistaken, here?

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I'm really hesitant to get a BC at a rescue. My personal feeling is that a clean slate would be a safer way to go than retraining, especially since I have children. Am I mistaken, here?

A lot of people feel this way, and my standard answer is that any puppy is a crap shoot. You can choose great genetics (i.e., you've seen the parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. and they all embody what you want) but there are no guarantees when it comes to a pup. Genetics is a tricky thing after all, and even dogs who are wonderful can produce combinations that are not.

 

Rescue puppies of course wouldn't be much different, except if the rescue pup has been in foster care for a little while, in which case you could get a fair assessment of its temperament, at least at that age.

 

Young adult rescues pretty much have formed personalities and what the foster tells you you're getting is likely going to be pretty much spot on. There are lots and lots of happy well-adjusted young dogs in rescue. One thing you would know for sure is how the dog is around children or small pets. A good, reputable rescue could match you up with a dog that's ideal for your family.

 

That said, I am not trying to talk you into a rescue. I just wanted to dispel what seems to be a pretty common misunderstanding among the general public when it comes to rescues. They are not all dogs with issues, nor do they all need retraining. The one big advantage to a young adult rescue, besides knowing pretty much exactly what sort of dog you're getting up front, is that you can immediately start doing all the fun activities with them (like agility or other sports) that you can't do with a pup, for whom you must wait to mature. My first three dogs, a border collie x aussie, and two border collies, were all rescues. I still have them all, but have since added working bred dogs, since I raise sheep and like to trial.

 

If you have your heart set on a puppy, then by all means get one, just realize that a "blank slate" can as easily work against you as it can for you. And please consider breeders who don't breed multiple litters at once or who are breeding for pretty colors or what have you. If it means waiting to find the perfect pup, then I think that pup would be worth the wait.

 

My two cents and then some.

 

J.

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You'll find that a lot of rescue dogs have no issues or behaviour problems on them that need re-training. Simply, a big reason Border Collies are surrendered are simply because the owner wasn't prepared for the breed. They are surrendered for being plain old Border Collies. The best thing about rescue is that you know all about whatever "baggage", if any, comes with the dog. You get to know specifics about the dog and their personality since a lot of work goes into evaluating the individual dogs. You can also find some younger dogs or puppies if that it what you're interested in. However, a lot of rescues are hesitant to adopt out to homes with small children because a lot of them have had bad experiences with children. But it usually depends on the individual dog you are looking at, so it doesn't hurt to ask.

 

You do sound like a great home for a Border Collie, whether you decide to go with a puppy or a rescue. I wish you the best of luck!

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I'm really hesitant to get a BC at a rescue. My personal feeling is that a clean slate would be a safer way to go than retraining, especially since I have children. Am I mistaken, here?

 

Of course, there is nothing wrong with getting a pup, but make sure your reasons for rejecting rescue are the right ones. It is a common misconception that rescue dogs all have "issues" or are somehow less able to bond with a family than a pup or less trainable than a pup. As I'm sure everyone on these boards will tell you, nothing could be further from the truth. Lots of very young dogs are available and nothing is wrong with them except that they were too energetic for their previous homes. Of course, high energy level is something you will get whether you get a pup from a breeder or rescue a pup, and though you may get an earlier start with a breeder pup, a slightly older pup will be no harder to train. If you get an adult dog rather than a pup, you will likely find you will have an even easier time of training. A young pup will quickly learn commands, however, he will also go through a period of adolescence where he will forget everything he learned and you'll have to start all over again. If you get an adult dog, around the age of two, this will not likely be an issue. The dog will still quickly learn anything you care to teach him and you won't have to deal with adolescence. My dog knows over 30 commands right now, competes in frisbee and obedience and we are learning skijoring and he didn't know a single command--not even his name--before he was two years old.

 

As for bonding, my BC, now 3 years old that I adopted at the age of 2 couldn't be more bonded with me. I had a pup years ago and was no more bonded with her than I am with my current dog. In addition, the two fosters I have right now, who have only been with me for a month and a half, are bonded with me as well. They all follow me around all day and hang on my every word. One of them has been in at least five homes in her one year of life. Adult dogs have no trouble bonding with a person that loves them and will devote time to them.

 

Finally, you won't necessarily need to do any "retraining"--simply the training that should have been done in the first place. Not all rescue dogs have major behavioral issues--in fact, I would venture to say that the large majority do not. In fact, you can find some very, very well behaved dogs in rescue that were given up by loving owners due to circumstance beyond their control. I just placed one such dog last summer! Some have minor issues--mine was a barker and a digger--but most issues are caused by boredom and lack of training and clear up very quickly once the dog has a leader and is given some training (as did my dog's). Obviously, you will probably deal with many of these small issues with a pup as well.

 

One thing that is often pointed out on these boards is that when buying a pup there are no guarantees. Despite doing everything "right" you could still end up with a dog with fear issues, aggression issues, other behavioral issues. The nice thing about rescue--especially for a family that has kids or other special considerations--is that the rescue organizations are highly experienced at choosing a dog that will fit perfectly into your situation. Nothing will be a surprise. What you see will be what you get.

 

Anyway, either way you go is fine. I just wanted to clear up some points about rescue, since you asked.

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I'm really hesitant to get a BC at a rescue. My personal feeling is that a clean slate would be a safer way to go than retraining, especially since I have children. Am I mistaken, here?

 

Welcome!

Whereabouts are you in Canada? I'm in eastern Ontario.

 

I understand your concern about getting a rescue dog in relation to "retraining" -- I think this is a common misconception. I obtained my first bc from the Humane Society at between 10 - 12 months of age. She was my first dog and I consider her my 'heart' dog. Did everything I asked of her, but I made many first time dog-owner mistakes, so I consider her personality 'quirks' to be a reflection of my inadequacy.

My second bc, Skye, is now 6 1/2 and I acquired her from the same Humane Society at 7 weeks of age. She was bought at a farm at six weeks and relinquished a week later because it had been a spontaneous purchase. I was very lucky to have snagged her before an unsuspecting person did! I was also glad to get a puppy because I wanted to have her with us for as long as possible (after losing Riley at 10 years old :rolleyes: )

 

So I guess I'm saying several things: if I were trying to purchase a puppy, I would look at rescue first, esp. bc rescue because their dogs have been vetted, or I would get a puppy from a working (stock, not sport) breeder that may not show promise as a worker him/herself. But honestly, I wouldn't disregard an older dog (older than 7 weeks, say), esp if its from a rescue organization where fosters are able to match dogs with appropriate homes. I think your kids are old enough that you wouldn't be ruled out as a great bc home (someone correct me if I'm wrong!) esp after having a bc/husky cross :D .

 

There are so many border collies in the world that through no fault of their own have been relinquished to shelters, etc. -- I think most rescue people will tell you that these dogs were the victim of inexperience, poor planning, lack of commitment or the willingness to learn. IMO, the only way I think you can be fairly certain about a border collie puppy's physical health is if you go to a scrupulously conscientious working dog breeder (as opposed to a dog simply bred on a farm). I would be more inclined to give these dogs a fair shake first. JMO.

 

Ailsa

P.S. I see I've missed the boat telling you this first -- thanks Julie and Kayla!

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There are several wonderful bordercollie rescues in Canada, whereabouts are you located so we can direct you to the appropriate ones?

 

Please be advised that Herding is the only work a dog should be BRED for. We can do what ever activity we want with said dog but it should not be bred for anything other than stock work.

 

A person stating that a dog is a working dog when it does not do stockwork is either uninformed or willingly attempting to confuse prospective buyers. Regardless, this is not a person I would be going to for a quality purchase. Dogs that are bred through an agility, therapy or dog sport program are not bred for the same reasons as true border collies, they actually work to harm the available genepool. I certainly wouldn't want to encourage the destruction of a breed that I coveted. They may very well be lovely dogs, and hey what puppy isn't mesmerizing and sweet? however, you have to ask yourself what it is about border collies that you like? Is it their keen intelligence, athleticism, ability to read their owners so well, or is it the whole border collie package?

 

Temperament is fundamental to stock work and is a big part of a carefully balanced breeding program. Therefore to say that they are breeding for temperament would imply that they are not able to assess all the crucial aspects that go into the splendid creature that is the border collie. It would be like baking bread but only using flour.... and not the rest of the ingredients. The final product is not really the same thing at all.

 

If you are not committed to buying from a breeder you may want to take a look at your local BC rescue, you may be shocked to find that what you were looking for was waiting there all along.

 

Sara

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As this thread has progressed it has become clear to me that I want a puppy. Both for myself,(it's been a long time, 17 yrs.), and for my kids. They have never had a puppy as we got Piper 2 and 1/2 yrs. before we had children.

 

We got our last dog from the SPCA and she was wonderful.

 

Jedismom, thank you so much for that test. It's perfect!! I will make good use of it.

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Congratulations on your quest for a new family member! I wish there were more people out there like you who took bringing a

dog into their family so seriously and did the appropriate research as you are doing. I really have nothing new to add, I think

that you have recieved some great advice above.

 

All I wanted to say is that 3 of our 4 dogs are rescues. Two are border collie rescues, Boots and Renoir, that we got around 10

months of age. Boots is my first border collie, and I feel that him being a rescue made the transition into the border collie

life easier than it may have been otherwise. By the time he came home he was pretty much full size and what I saw was what

I got. Not to say that he didn't go through a short second puppy phase, in 6 weeks we covered all the puppy phases,

just really short ones, but since he understood right from wrong it was very easy to move past each puppyish obstacle.

Last year we brought in another border collie rescue (most likely he is bc/aussie). We again went through a quick tour of

puppy problems (luckily only one couch cushion died in the tour), but in a very short amount of time he figured out what the

house guidelines were.

 

In some ways I feel like I was able to bond much quicker with our bc rescues than with our non-rescue Toller that I was given

when he was 8 weeks. Now whether this is breed or age I don't know for sure. But within the first day both bc's would look to us

for approval and check where we were going when we got up to move around the house.

 

Either way best of luck searching for your new family member, I'm sure you'll find the perfect fit!

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I have no problem with anyone who wants to get a puppy from a reputable breeder, who is breeding border collies for the right reason. I'm just saying that so I don't sound like a rescue snob. :rolleyes: Anyway, if you want a puppy, I wanted to point out that there is no reason why you can't still rescue. Young puppies are available through BC rescue and sometimes even in shelters/pounds. Not as often as older dogs, but still quite frequently.

 

And ditto Julie, Tania and others for pointing out (again) that "rescue" does not equal "dog with issues/baggage".

 

Finally, I wouldn't buy a puppy from either breeder mentioned in the original post. If you do want to go the breeder route, I'd keep looking. Good luck!

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I'm really hesitant to get a BC at a rescue. My personal feeling is that a clean slate would be a safer way to go than retraining, especially since I have children. Am I mistaken, here?

 

Enough people have commented on this, but I would like to add in my two cents. I got my dog at 9 weeks old her mother was a delightful tri-coloured bc, she was happy, friendly and pretty darned easy going. The father from what I know, an alaskan malamute, never did get to meet him. I am assuming it was an "accident" litter or whatever. It wasn't my sole decision in picking the dog but had I known what I know now, I would have simply said no. But you can't turn back time, so here I am 4 years latter with a dog who is a mess. She does not like strangers or other dogs. She is very nervous in new situations and highly reactive. I have spent countless hours and money in the last couple of years on her. We are making huge progress, but it's not a situation I'd want to be in if I had kids, that's for sure. Part of the problem could be the fact that I was slow to socialize as she had no shots when we got her, but from day one even with vaccinated dogs that I knew, she was really not into it. SO, I guess I just wanted to say, even with a clean slate, genetics are kind of a gamble and you really don't know what you're going to get. My next dog will either be highly researched or an adolescent rescue. At least the foster home will have a pretty bang on idea of what the dog is going to be like. Listen to the folks here and read-up as much info as you can and if you see even one "red flag", turn and run the other way!

 

Otherwise, welcome and make sure you post lots of pictures when you do choose one, we all love puppies!

 

julie

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Not to sound like a broken record but i also think that rescuing is the way to go. In our case, we ended up "rescuing" our pup from a shelter. He has turned out great so far but i think that had we gotten him from an actual rescue we may have had more of a sense about his temperament and such. But check local shelters for pups, they might have some too,

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Alot of good advice by knowledgeable ppl has already been given to you so I won't bother to echo what has already been said.

From what you have said of the litters you have looked at to date I can sure see red flags that would really cause me to shy away from these puppies.

(Does anyone else keep thinking holiday litters? or is it just me?

If you are set on a Border Collie puppy and you are not looking for a working dog I would strongly suggest taking some time and getting in touch with a few working breeders in your area and talking with them,let them know what your looking for in a puppy, breeders of working stock generally have a very good feel for potential in their pups that comes from experince, and pups they feel would be better suited to a pet home.

Its still very much a crap shoot though,but imo its the working breeder who really has the best intention in mind for the pups they put on the ground.

Don't rush what appears to be a good thing just because theres pups now.Take some time and you will probably find just the right puppy for your family along with getting to know alot more about the breed and the people who breed them for the right reasons.

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I'm in B.C. Canada myself.

 

I got my border collie pup in the states; due to the fact we were looking for a specific type of border collie.

 

I know that Saskatchewan has MANY MANY border collies in shelters....

 

I got Aspen when she was 1 1/2 years old from a no-kill shelter in Aldergrove, B.C. And she came to me with ZERO problems. I had the perfect dog in a sense. She wasn't a chewer, she wasn't a runner, etc. She was very devoted and had a good recall. She was the best dog I ever had even though she was almost 2 yrs old. I like them under 2 personally.

 

You can check out the border collie rescue; recently a lady gave away her border collie at 9 weeks old and it's in the shelter in the states. I can't remember where. I saw that somewhere. But the point is..you will be surprised to find border collie puppies in shelters; they do have them the last time I looked.

 

And for ME..on a personal level; if I had to do it all over again. I would have gotten my border collie from the shelter rather from a breeder. That's just MY personal preference and opinion and not in any way to say breeders are no good. I never said that. It's just I'm learning more now about how border collies are rejected due to being too hyper or not hyper enough..it just made me think twice and I rather rescue one from a shelter. JMO.

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Well, I slept rather poorly last night. This board is rather overwhelming. I did some more reading to find context for so many people telling me to rescue and I must say I am more confused than ever.

 

It was stated repeatedly by rescuers in Ironhorse's "Trial by Fire" intro thread that the rescue's are full of second class dogs with problems bred by BYB's and puppymills.

 

It is also said that most normal families can't handle BC's.

 

Most of the rescues won't let you adopt if you have kids under 12. My son is 11.

 

Then I read another rescuer in the "Why are BC's so neurotic" thread say that you can live in an apt. and give a BC a great home and yet the website is very cautionary and sounds quite the opposite.

 

I want to make it clear that I understand why folks want only working stock breeders to be breeding. I admire your passion and devotion to the breed and keeping it pure. I'm a passionate person myself. Probably why I am so drawn to the BC.

 

Wanting a border collie and having children that want a border collie is proving to be a challenging thing. Like Ironhorse, three yrs. ago, I really love this person's dogs.

 

I think the searching for a pup is also tapping into our grief over losing Piper and so we are all a little needy in the I want it now dept. Seeing and playing with those pups brought a great deal of joy and comfort to all of us and remember we had visited at least five litters of other breeds and mutts in the weeks before this.

 

I am in a pickle, no doubt about it.

 

Flyer

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I'm really hesitant to get a BC at a rescue. My personal feeling is that a clean slate would be a safer way to go than retraining, especially since I have children. Am I mistaken, here?

 

There are already plenty of good answers to your question, but let me add my personal experience.

 

When I first saw Senneca at the shelter, she was bouncing off the walls and ceiling -- kennel crazy -- after 2 months of shelter life. For all that, she was calm and well-mannered once she was out in the "get to know each other" compound. Once she was home with us, she was a real gem. She is wonderful at home, with virtually no issues. Out in public, I am constantly told that she "mellow" for a border collie, yet the same people are amazed when they see her in action.

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I dunno...from reading your OP I think you have a great grasp of what you are doing. You liked the first breeder and the pups. I think with children a pup is the best way to go but that's just my own uneductated opinion. That way the pup can grow with the children and they learn about eachother as they grow. I think rescue is also a great idea. Either way, I think you know what you're doing and will be a good border collie "parent". Relax and enjoy the process and pick the pup/dog that you think will best suit your family, no matter what anyone else says. I to waffled between a rescue and a pup and in the end I think I made the right decision in a puppy as I have a 6 year old son. Archer and Liam love and respect achother so it has worked out wonderfully.

 

That being said we will be looking at a rescue once our 13 year old dog has passed, as a companion for Archer since I don't think I can imagine a house with only one dog in it! Good luck with whatever decision you make!

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Flyer,

 

I certainly can understand your feeling overwhelmed! I've lived with border collies for over three decades, and there are still a gazillion things I learn from other people who are passionate about the breed. :D One of those things is that, as you've already discovered, we folks with strong feelings are likely to disagree, based on our own experiences and biases.

 

But you are right that it takes awhile to sort through these different perspectives and come to your own conclusion--and I am so happy to see you grappling with these issues, however frustrating they are now. As other replies have already said, the very fact you're asking questions, considering responses, and learning as much as you can shows that you are on your way to being a dedicated border collie owner. :rolleyes:

 

Personally, like many other people here, I have had border collies from several different situations: breeders, shelters, rescues. And they all come with their own delights and frustrations, which seem much less to depend on the dogs' origins and more on the dogs' personalities themselves. I think that (the personality issue) is why so many people have suggested you consider rescue--because the rescue will have had a chance to evaluate the puppy and can help you make a good match between your family and this individual pup (I say "pup" because you'd mentioned feeling strongly that was the way your family would go).

 

I do think one point most of us would agree upon is that border collies can thrive in many different kinds of situations if the people involved are committed to the dogs' well-being. So, while some people would say I was nuts for getting a border collie when I was a grad student living in a third-floor apartment, I think most would say if I took the time to find the right dog and then committed myself to his health and exercise needs, we would be fine. (And, happily, we were!) I have seen similar discussions about border collies and children play out here and on other boards, so you might want to contact any rescues you're interested in directly, explain your family situation, and ask if the organization would consider your application.

 

I to waffled between a rescue and a pup and in the end I think I made the right decision in a puppy as I have a 6 year old son.

I understand, ArchersMomma, what you're saying about having a puppy to grow up with your son, but I did want to respectfully point out that you've set up a false dichotomy. :D As several other posters have noted, the choice is not either a rescue or a puppy--instead, it's quite possible to have both! DH and I just transported a beautiful 4-month-old pup on Saturday, the third border collie pup of that age we've transported for a rescue in the last month alone, and I know there are many even younger puppies available in rescue. :D

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Flyer,

 

No need to lose sleep! It's an important decision, but not a life or death one! There are lots of very knowledgeable and passionate people on these boards, so you can get some pretty strong opinions sometimes and lots of things you may have never thought about before.

 

You've been given tons of good info to mull over, and really, nobody here cares if you buy a pup, rescue a pup or rescue an adult--that's entirely up to you. I think we all do hope that if you go the route of buying a pup, you choose a good, working breeder.

 

A couple points of reply:

rescue's are full of second class dogs with problems bred by BYB's and puppymills.

 

Yes, there are BYB and puppy mill dogs in rescues, as well as dogs from breeders. There are also lots of dogs from breeders that have problems. I'm not sure what makes them "second class" (unless you are looking specifically for a dog to work livestock--then you should probably get a puppy) and I completely disagree that most of them have problems. Anyone who posted that has probably never been directly involved with rescue. I think the main point is that by buying a pup from a breeder, you are not guaranteed a problem-free dog and by rescuing a pup or adult you are not necessarily getting a damaged dog with problems.

 

It is also said that most normal families can't handle BC's.

 

True! Thus, the reason there are so many border collies in rescue in the first place. Most people don't want a dog they actually have to DO things with! However, a border collie can fit into any family or living situation where the owners are dedicated to meeting it's needs, as you sound like you are.

 

Most of the rescues won't let you adopt if you have kids under 12. My son is 11.

 

They have good reason for this, however the "rules" are not usually set in stone. I think you'll find that most rescues will be flexible if they feel the dog and family are a good match.

 

Good luck!

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