Newbie...scared poopless

[myiavedder]

Hello all,

 

I'm new to the BC Boards and new to BC puppies.

 

I was (unexpectantly) given an 8 week old BC puppy for Christmas. (Seriously....who gives a grown woman a puppy without consulting her first???) While I was thinking of getting a dog in the spring, I was definitely not thinking of getting a puppy. Especially a BC puppy! However, once it was plopped into my lap, I couldn't refuse the adorable furry package. So now I have a 10 wk old BC puppy and I'm terrified.

 

Why terrified, you ask? Well...I live in a condo in the city and don't happen to have a flock of sheep in my dining room waiting to be herded. I've known a few border collies and unfortunately all have been hyper, neurotic nutcases. I can't live with a hyper, neurotic nutcase!

 

I've been reading these boards since Christmas evening (they've been incredibly helpful, thanks!) and I've noticed that many of you have BC's that aren't hyper, neurotic nutcases. What did you do to keep the neurosis at bay? What advice do you have for a BC newbie?

 

While I don't have a flock of sheep waiting to be herded, I am more than willing to do agility, obedience, intense exercise...whatever it takes. Where should I start?

 

My 10-wk old bundle of fuzzy joy (Ranger) is very smart. He already knows how to sit, down, up, stay (for as long as a puppy can). He's crate trained and well on his way to being housetrained. He LOVES the clicker and responds very well. Tonight I introduced "leave it" with a cube of cheese and half a donut and he got it in about 2 minutes...without even a nibble of cheese or donut.

 

Basically, my question is....what mistakes did you make in raising your BC pup that you wish you had avoided? What do you wish you had done better?

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom and for reading all this rambling!

[sluj]

I'm not the best person to answer your question, not having raised a bc puppy myself, but I did want to say welcome!

 

It sounds like you're off to a good start. Mental activity is a great way to stave off boredom (which often leads to hyper and compulsive behavior). There are lots of threads on exactly that, so I would try searching on those.

 

Oh, and since you're living in a city, it's especially important to socialize Ranger - take advantage of pet stores, outdoor markets, college campuses, whatever is handy to get him out seeing new sights and people. Please keep us updated, and with lots of pictures!

[Michelle K]

Ok, gotta love the wonderful world of internet problems. I had just typed you a decent size response only to lose it. ARGH! LOL!! Anyway, welcome to the boards. You have an adorable little pup there. First, I want to tell you that you are doing a fantastic job by reading the boards. You'll find a lot of great information and the answer to your questions. You mentioned that you don't have sheep. Well, I don't either, and Nykie isn't a neurotic nutcase. Of course, I have people ask me all of the time how I live with the dogs I do. Definitely not dogs for everyone. In my case, I have a lot on my plate with 5 dogs, a 16 month old child, a home to keep up, and working 20-30hrs a week. In my opinion, where there's a will there's a way. I just have to make the time to do it all. It does help, though, that I have a large fenced in yard for the dogs to run in. With Nykie, I keep her stimulated with different things. I love obedience and agility (still new at it, but have taken one class and will take the next class offered). I am looking into introducing her to herding this Spring, but that's still in the works. I really can't say that I've made mistakes, as such, but that's only because it's a constant learning process. I've lived with dogs my entire life and did rescue for 10+yrs, but I still find myself learning new things all of the time. You just need to find what works for you and Ranger. Keep him stimulated and active, but make sure that you're up to keeping the routine going. One of the worst mistakes you can make is working with him constantly now and then a few months down the road, slacking off. Nykie loves to be busy and I do my very best to keep up with her, but I knew from day 1 that I wouldn't be able to spend every waking moment catering to her, so I got her on a routine from the beginning. You'll do just fine. Read all you can on here and enjoy that new baby!

[OffTopic]

So are you still on speaking terms with the person who gave you this most wonderful and terrible of gifts?

 

My 10-wk old bundle of fuzzy joy (Ranger) is very smart.

This is both good and bad. A smart dog can be more of a challenge than a dumb dog because they can think for themselves. And they're going to keep thinking whether or not you're around to supervise the direction their smart little brains take them.....for example, "I think if I keep pawing at that plaster wall, I can eventually create a hole big enough to see what's making all that noise in the next apartment".

 

But believe it or not, there are actually some very mellow Border Collies. Scudder, my first BC, was a bit neurotic about wanting to play soccer and herd squirrels when he was outside, but he was never destructive in the house (unless his tummy was upset, but that's a different kind of destruction).

Finn, my new guy, is around a year old and so far is perfectly content with his daily walk (to tire him physically) and a daily play/training session (to wear him out mentally). I've been able to leave him alone for up to 8 hours in the house with no problems and we've only had him for 3 months.

 

Maybe you got a mellow one and you'll have no worries beyond the usual puppy problems, but you certainly can learn some great ways to deal with BC specific problems here if you've got a "live" one. I know I've learned a lot in the last few months!

[Genie]

I can't think of anything I wish I had done differently, but I am oh so glad I worked on 'settle'. I started by capturing those moments where he was just lying near me calmly with "Good Settle" and sometimes gentle stroking. After a while, I could reward with a chewie or treat, but only when it didn't make him too excited.

[Liz P]

The 3 top mistakes I see are...

 

1) not enough socialization, get into a puppy K class ASAP!

 

2) not enough mental and physical exercise, a bored BC is a bad BC (destructive, neurotic)

 

3) giving up on the dog when it's a teenager, BCs can be very frustrating when they hit puberty (intact OR neutered) but with continued training and reinforcement of good behavior they settle down when they are 2 to 4 yrs old

[juliepoudrier]

Welcome! I think the most important thing is not to buy into the whole myth that border collies must have hours of exercise every day in order to be well-adjusted dogs. Pups, especially, actually require a lot of sleep. I think you're doing great by teaching him things and making him use his mind. Be sure he gets regular puppy playtime as well, but hold off on any games that cause repetitive stress to his immature joints (don't encourage jumping for example--it's okay if he's running outside playing and jumps over things, but don't get him jumping for balls or frisbees or anything like that till he's much older, like at least a year). Crate training, which you're already doing, can be great for teaching a youngster (or adult) how to settle. Make sure he gets quiet time in his crate.

 

There are a number of members on this forum who live in small spaces (studios, condos) with no yard and still manage to keep their dogs happy and well adjusted. It may take a bit more work, but then having a big yard isn't necessarily an advantage since these dogs were bred to work *with* their human partners, so they want more than anything to be with their people. Leave them out to entertain themselves in the yard and they usually just end up destroying things.

 

Border collies can easily develop obsessive behaviors. Don't ever encourage things like chasing shadows (or laser lights) or jumping at leaves rustling on trees or any of that sort of thing. Such actions can become self rewarding, and next thing you know, you've got a dog with an obsessive-compulsive disorder. Even when playing you need to make sure that your pup understands that when play time's over it's over. These dogs can be very annoying about things like repeatedly dropping a toy at your feet or in your lap to try and get you to play. If you absentmindedly allow that sort of thing, you will eventually have a dog that will annoy the he** out of you by thinking that it can constantly throw things at you for you to throw back.

 

The best advice I can give is to let your pup be a pup. Give him basic manners and basic obedience and whatever other training you think will engage his mind, but also remember to give him quiet time and time to just be a pup.

 

Good luck. The fact that you're asking questions bodes very well for both you and Ranger!

 

J.

[Allie Oop]

Welcome! Kudos to you for researching about your new "gift" (and apparently deciding not to exterminate the giver). Ranger is adorable.

 

Teaching him tricks, basic obedience and other mental stimulation is a good way to keep your pup active without driving you crazy. A lot of folks have BCs in small living situations. We also live in a city and both of my BCs love to go for walks (even on leash) around town. We are also fortunate to have quite a few off-leash dog parks to play in for our daily runs. When Ranger is older you can check into agility or flyball classes for him - they are a great way to burn off energy and teach skills.

 

Good luck!

[Ceredwyn]

Welcome! What a sweetheart your pup is!

 

We kind of backed into the world of the border collie, too. We rescued our Girlfriend from an uncaring owner when she was three months old. We had no idea what she was (she wasn't typically marked, being mostly black), and had we known, we might have said no. Oh, how horrible that would have been! The next eleven years might have been "easier", but we'd have missed knowing the most wonderful dog in the world. She was kind of a holy terror at times, with her limitless energy and inventiveness. But she matured into a beautiful spirit who brought joy not only to my DH and I, but to countless others. She spent her mature years as a therapy dog in a nursing home and brightened the lives of many, many people. And while her death devastated us, her life more than made up for that pain! You're in for the ride of a lifetime. Live, learn, and enjoy every minute of it -- these folks will be able to walk you through almost anything.

 

Cheryl

[Bo Peep]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Border collies. A gift? Someone should NEVER buy a pet of any kind as a gift unless they are willing to take on the responsibility of that animal- (I did this with a hamster for my Grandson and got stuck with the hamster) I guess I taught my sons too well. Now that you have your pup and are on this board, I recommend you to USE IT!!! Everyone here is very friendly, it doesn't matter if their BC is a pet, a herding dog, agility, fly ball or in my case, one is a service dog- I'll brag about his work today later. It's good to see you are doing your research. You might end up buying a farm and sheep- it's happened to the best of us. I have been around border collies since 1987 (oops, showing my age) and everyone of them as been different. The MINIMUM you need is a 6 week class with a GOOD trainer- not petsmart or anything. If you have to take private lessons from an ACK trainer, it will be well worth your money to have a good dog. Practice every day. Once you do this you will have the best dog you've had in your life and I doubt you will ever choose another breed again. Just my 2 cents. Best of luck.

[Dexter9607]

Hi and Welcome! Also, your bravery is astounding and humbling! It's courageous enough to take on a BC puppy willingly and knowingly...let alone to get a cute ball of fluff plopped on your lap at Xmas! It sounds like you have a really great handle on what you're doing and where you're going. Dex is my first BC (I've owned other breeds my entire life), and I still get a little intimidated by his smarts sometimes (don't tell him I said that!) I've known a number of people who've owned BCs and I think I add to the consensus on this board that probably one of the most important things you can do for your pup is to keep him thinking. Hide things on him (once he's learned their names) and invent new games for him. Stuff like that. There's a trainer who posts videos on youtube (I forget her name) - just search for border collie tricks (one of her dogs' names is Bu) and you'll find her - she's got some great inventive tricks that will give you ideas.

 

I don't have sheep in my living room either (oh, wouldn't that be interesting) but I have heard of a few different places where you can bring your dog and work some sheep...so if you really wanted to explore that direction, I'm sure you could google something!

 

Oh - and I agree that you should make some puppy/dog friends and get some socialization...a little of that goes a long way!

 

good luck and post some more pictures!!!

[Pippin's person]

Echoing everyone else--welcome. It sounds like you already have some fundamental understanding of dog training, so you are already light years beyond many folks who end up with a Christmas puppy. I found the book "How to raise a puppy you can live with" very useful when we were raising puppies. I second others' point on puppy playdates--excellent way to teach him about doggie rules and to burn some mental and physical energy.

 

Working his mind and letting him sleep are excellent advice. I think the biggest mistake folks make with BC puppies (and maybe generally with puppies) is thinking they need to be stimulated all the time. IMHO, that's one of the main ways you get the neurotic nutcases you referenced. Work hard now to teach him how to settle while you do quiet-type things like read or watch TV or whatever, and as others said, try hard not to give in to the "drop the toy in your lap 10 million times in rapid succession" game.

 

Don't know if you know anything about his background, but knowing something about his breeding might also give you some clues about what to expect (and thus train around)--some breeders breed specifically for that kind of nutty, never-stop intensity.

 

Also, like someone else said, practice your patience for when he hits adolescence--ours were all incredibly annoying from about 7/8-15 mos.

 

Good luck with him and we look forward to seeing the pics as he grows.

[Marilyn T]

What Julie and Robin said! Mainly, don't buy into the constant activity thing. A crate can be your friend too. Use it. Also, beware the really smart puppy that decides to train you instead of you training it. A friend was teaching an obedience 'watch' to a 4 month old BC. After about three times, the puppy would deliberately look away in order to make his handler say watch so he would get his cookie. He thought he was training her to say watch. Smart little things.

Socialize, socialize, socalize, and enjoy.

[borderbob]

should i buy stock in a tennis ball company now?

[Eileen Stein]

It sounds like you're well aware of how to train a dog, so I doubt you'd need a training class except for the socialization benefits. Don't be scared of hyperness. Most of the border collies I know are not hyper. Breeding is a factor in whether they are, but there's nothing you can do about that, and even then it's pretty much correctible. You should be fine if you don't go overboard in constant stimulating activity for the pup. As Julie, Pippin's Person and Marilyn said, give the little guy some training in downtime. With a pup who is constantly pestering you to play, I play for awhile and then say, "That's enough for now." If you say something of the kind and then absolutely do not respond to any further overtures, the pup soon learns that pestering you after you've spoken the magic words will do no good, and he'll usually just settle down. Temporarily, of course, but you can repeat as needed. Also, I think being low-key in your training (both overbearing corrections and "throwing a party" are sensory overload to border collies, IMO) encourages calmness. Border collies generally love being trained, and get a lot of satisfaction from realizing that they figured out what you wanted them to do and did it.

 

Your benefactors were really taking an awful chance, but despite their questionable judgment I suspect you're probably going to end up pretty happy. Welcome to the Boards.

[KJ]

How exciting for you both! This board is THE best to come. People are really willing to share resources and give advice etc. It really is a special place.

 

Anyway, never having a puppy, just around 2 year olds, I'd say:

 

-socialization-take that puppy everywhere where he can be safe. Don't wear him out, but expose him to people and feet and noises. I'd say a good class is imperative for someone who is not seasoned-at least I would do that if I had a puppy.

 

-crate training is really useful

 

-there are many posts (this is for when Ranger is older maybe, but maybe not) for what to do with your BC inside, say when there's days of rain. Lots of fun interactive games and tricks etc. Curly loves "Find it". It really stimulates his brain, and after just about 1/2 hour he's really satisfied. He loves hide and seek too.

 

-the only other thing I havn't seen is I would handle him whenever you can. By this I mean, touch his paws a lot and look in his ears and flip up his chops, touch his gums and lift his tail and whatever else a vet might need to do or you may need to do to do first aid or just to groom him

[ZoZo]

Everyone has offered great advice. Here's what kept us from going crazy when our BC was a pup- The crate is easily the greatest single invention in human history. I'm not sure if we would have come out alive without one. Dogs (and pups) love routine! Everyone knows what to expect and will be happy. Our dog is chew hound, so Bully Sticks are a stable at our home. She's never damaged anything in the house as a result (well, except for The Refrigerator Incident and an electrical cord on a lamp). Do not be discouraged if your BC is annoying and seemingly unmanageable in a puppy school environment. Our BC had no attention span to speak of as a pup and we could not keep her in a class as she was very disruptive. They grow out of it. Today she is an amazing dog and people come up to me all the time and ask me for my secrets of dog training! Ha! I wish I could take credit, but I've only spent a few minutes each day training her, she's just so smart, she can make a knuckle head like me look like I know what I'm doing.

[myiavedder]

Wow, thanks so much for all of your responses. I really appreciate the time and advice.

 

To answer a few of your questions...

 

He was given to me by my sister and her family. While I myself would never in a million years give someone a pet as a gift without consulting them first, I know her heart was in the right place. I had to have my 13-yr old Bearded Collie put down in October (cancer) and it was heart wrenching. I know my sister thought a puppy would cheer me up after having to make that awful decision. So I can't fault her entirely. I can curse her repeatedly but I can't blame her for wanting to fill the void my beloved Beardie left.

 

She had arranged to return Ranger to the breeder in case I didn't want him. But my heart is not made of stone and he is just cute as a button.

 

Someone mentioned that him being so smart was both a blessing and a curse. This I'm definitely well aware of. I have to admit it's a little creepy to have something in your house constantly studying you. I swear he sits and looks at me just trying to figure out where I keep the car keys. My beardie paid me no mind in the house unless I happened to be holding a hamhock but Ranger is always there and always watching.

 

He's enrolled in puppy primer starting next week and he attends doggy daycare once a week. I've read conflicting advice regarding socialization until puppies have had their full round of puppy shots. Ranger has had 2 rounds and is not due for his last for a couple of weeks. The puppy primer class is limited to puppies 16 wks or younger so they assured me it shouldn't be a problem. The doggy daycare keeps him isolated with only 1 other pup about the same age. Hopefully I'm not putting him at risk, although I feel pretty good about it considering the precautions in place.

 

Anyhoo...thanks again for your thoughts and advice!

[bc4pack]

One more thing......

 

TAKE TONS OF PHOTOS !!!!! <g>

 

and relax...

 

The over-the-top BCs that I have seen tend to have been raised in households with

tons of overstimulation. Quieter households raise quieter dogs; dogs that enjoy a more

relaxed, laid back household seem to be a lot more relaxed themselves. Does this make any

sense? Things run down leash...

 

Just my thoughts...

[Alaska]

He's enrolled in puppy primer starting next week and he attends doggy daycare once a week. I've read conflicting advice regarding socialization until puppies have had their full round of puppy shots. Ranger has had 2 rounds and is not due for his last for a couple of weeks. The puppy primer class is limited to puppies 16 wks or younger so they assured me it shouldn't be a problem. The doggy daycare keeps him isolated with only 1 other pup about the same age. Hopefully I'm not putting him at risk, although I feel pretty good about it considering the precautions in place.

Agree with the puppy class, but not sure what the point of the daycare is?

 

You need to socialize your pup both to people and to other dogs. These are not the same thing. Puppy class is primarily about the latter, but you most definitely need to address the former as well. I suggest that you read what Ian Dunbar has to say about raising a puppy, especially the importance of early socialization:

 

Dunbar on puppy classes

Dunbar on socialization with people

Many more articles like these at Dog Star Daily

 

Dunbar feels so strongly about getting people and their puppies off on the right foot that he has made his book "Before You Get Your Puppy" available for free download here.. I think his book "After You Get Your Puppy" is worth paying for, but at least take a look at the free one and see what you think.

[Guest SweetJordan]

One more thing......

 

TAKE TONS OF PHOTOS !!!!! <g>

 

and relax...

 

The over-the-top BCs that I have seen tend to have been raised in households with

tons of overstimulation. Quieter households raise quieter dogs; dogs that enjoy a more

relaxed, laid back household seem to be a lot more relaxed themselves. Does this make any

sense? Things run down leash...

 

Just my thoughts...

Those are good thoughts.

When I first adopted Riley I noticed that she could be put into over drive by being overstimulated. But with a good balance of mental and physical exercise w/o overdoing it she is very easy to live with. As I write this she's sleeping under the coffee table. Though part of her problem when I adopted her was having too much pent up energy from her previous life(plus being moved around made her nervous I'm sure), and as a result she didn't really have an off switch. I worried so much at first that I didn't sleep good at night(and I'm a very laid back person). Now she has a beautiful off switch. And I think she's a much happier dog.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

The over-the-top BCs that I have seen tend to have been raised in households with

tons of overstimulation. Quieter households raise quieter dogs; dogs that enjoy a more

relaxed, laid back household seem to be a lot more relaxed themselves. Does this make any

sense? Things run down leash...

 

OMG! I couldn't agree with that statement more!! Mine is now 3 and has been living in a quieter house for just over one year and I am seeing tremendous changes in her all the time.

First we lived with someone who, I hate to say, most likely treated her badly. I couldn't house break her to save my life. The girl moved out, dog is house broken within a couple of days. My best friend is naturally high strung and she lived with us as well. Very stressed out and worked up about everything. I couldn't even clip Daisy's nails she was so stress out by my friend. Went bananas every time the phone rang because meagan would rush so fast for the call, don't do that to a border collie please!!! Meagan moved out about a year and a bit ago and the dog is a completley different dog!

 

By the way! Welcome! I'm new too! Your pup has a way better shot then mine ever had given the living situation! And personally, my dog isn't all that bad anymore!

[JohnLloydJones]

I have to admit it's a little creepy to have something in your house constantly studying you. I swear he sits and looks at me just trying to figure out where I keep the car keys.

 

It's a BC trademark to keep a close eye on you. It's part of the obsessive need to do things with you. He just doesn't want to miss on opportunity.

 

And yes, the way Senneca sits in the passenger seat and watches carefully how I drive makes me think that she's learning the route in case she can manage to snatch the keys...

[hoku's mum]

Welcome! You have gotten lots of great advise. One thing not mentioned that I think is wonderful is NILIF. It's a great way to gently let your dog know you are the leader, and instill good dog manners. Small things make a big difference for us, such as we go through the door first (he sits and waits till we give the OK), all the toys are ours (and we love letting him play with them ), sitting means 'please', we initiate the play (as others have mentioned, don't reward him for pestering you, just a minute of him stopping the pestering, and you can then play like it's your big idea)

Handle him all over, play with his toes, massage his ears, stroke his back so he will be comfortable with grooming and vetting. And once he has all his shots, drop in regularly at your vets, weigh him, have folks ohh and ahh, give him a cookie and leave.

Take him to lots of different place and walk on all different surfaces (no kidding, Hoku will not walk over metal... go figure )

And most of all, take lots of pictures, they grow up so fast! Besides, you need them to look back on when he is an adolescent devil to remind you how much you really do love him!

[Skyler]

Sounds like you have had plenty of good advice thus far and I am glad that you found this forum to help you along with your new puppy. Always come back if you need help but as suggested, unless you are very experienced at training dogs yourself I would get to a class. It helps socialize, exercise and instruct your pup.

 

Just dont give up on that little pup even when you think you cant take anymore. Many Borders when pups dont want a lot of affection the way people want to give it and are close to insane bundles of fur. However, after the puppy terror stage is over and he becomes an adult you will be happy with your sister. If you invest heavily into a Border when they are young you will see your return ten-fold and they generally become love bugs when older. I am raising my third Border and I wouldnt trade this breed for any other. They are AMAZING animals in every way and you will find a friend in them like no other.

 

Good luck and welcome to the forum.