Is it ever right or helpful to spank/pop a dog?

[Rskillz]

I've always been around people who scorn their dogs when they get into mischief and pop them occasionally, not abuse and not even close but just a smack to know they are wrong. Well I've lost my temper with Eko a few times and popped him(not hard or repeatedly) and afterwards I just feel terrible. To make matters worse now he seems a bit down in the dumps like he can do no right. He's only 3 months old. I'm in no way mean to him and 99% of the time we are super happy.

 

What's the best way to let a dog know he's in the wrong. Or is it always my fault kind of thing? Just positive reinforcement when he does good?

[Guest WoobiesMom]

Everything I've read about BCs says they are very sensitive to harsh punishments or disapproval, so I don't think popping him is going to really get you what you want. And you answered your own question with your admission that it's mostly your fault. You have to always think "What if?" and prevent as much of those as you can so there aren't things he needs corrections for. If you can't watch him, crate him, then he won't eat your phone. Things like that. It's much better to teach him to view his crate positively (like giving him a nice Kong full of treats) than to think "I'm just going to be in the bathroom for a few minutes, he's fine." and return to find him eating electrical cords.

 

I had to correct Woobie mostly for being mouthy when we first got him. Everything else was easily avoided by watching him closely and crating him when he was out of my sight or I was busy with something. I won't go into my corrections for his mouthiness, it's controversial.

[KellyR]

I will admit, I smacked HrrGrr's muzzle about 6 times over the course of one afternoon when he was snapping at me while I was setting down food/water and moving him. It was a short affair, he's nip and I'd smack, not hard or anything (although he did end up biting his own tongue once). He never yelped or lost any fire, he just decided that biting wasn't appropriate and we've been fine ever since.

 

Do I like hitting a dog? Nope. Does it have a place in a very narrowly defined enviroment for very narrowly defined behavior, (biting) sometimes? Its one tool in the toolbox. You should however, try to have many, many tools at your disposal generally speaking. If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[Shadows Mom]

I swatted Shadow on the bum twice last week when I caught her pooing on my parents expensive rug, I felt HORRIBLE for doing it but if I hadn't mom would have and mom's spankings hurt! (Not that I EVER did anything wrong as a child to deserve a spanking ) When I say swatting I mean a VERY light swat on her thigh / bum area, didn't even make a sound, just got her attention really fast. I find that yelling or using a mean tone works 10X as well, even a good scowl can deter them if they see it aimed at them! But I always prefer the good old fashioned NO!!

[M.L.]

The only dog that I occassionally give a smack to is Bailey, and only on his butt. Not real hard, just enough to get him to pay attention. I never use it as a correction though. Its only to get his attention. He is very stubborn and there are times when he is on leash that he will completely ignore me. A quick smack on the butt gets his attention and then he focuses on me again and we can get moving.

 

I could never do anything of the sort to Willow. She is too sensitive.

 

Take a deep breath when you are angry, walk away, think about how the behavior could have been prevented in the first place, and try not to allow it to happen again.

[Lunar]

I've been known to give Zoe a little pat on the rump when I'm seriously annoyed about something... though with her it's really more of a pat than anything, just a tap gets her attention. I think it's more because I loose my temper than what I think I should be doing though! All my fault.

 

And yes, you have to be very careful about the dog's temperment. With a BC I would definitely try to be patient. If you ever were to smack Zoe she'd freak out. If you even *scold* Zoe too harshly she goes into shut-down mode, thus defeating the entire purpose (as she learns absolutely NOTHING when she's in shut-down mode).

 

IF there were extenuating circumstances - like if one of the dogs was hurting one of the cats, for example - you'd bet I'd be wading in there doing whatever necessary, physical or not, to get their attention and get them off the cat. However that has never happened and I doubt it ever will.

[Guest LJS1993]

I'm also raising a pup right now and have had no reason to "pop" him. Tucker is about twelve weeks old or more, and is doing your typical puppy things. However, each time he has chewed something is because I left it out, not his fault really. As for house training, I use repetition and verbal scolding as a means for showing him what is right and what is not a suitable "poddy" area. He is slowly learning, thus no reason for popping of any kind.

[smileyzookie]

Its very rare occasion if I pop Riven. She listens mostly well anyway, so I never have a need to. However, if she is jumping/barking or otherwise annoying someone coming in the door and refuses to go to her visitor spot I will swat her and she'll move. The visitor spot is a place on the couch where I generally make her go if someone comes to the door. I HATE dogs that bark and act like a fool as Im trying to walk in the door, and I refuse to let her get away with it. So yes I have swatted her. But very rare

[WyoBC]

It really isn't his fault if he gets into something because it was left out. Pups will get into stuff, everything really and they can't be punished for it. If he's being mouthy with you, than a sharp "ouch" or a *tap* on the muzzle works good. But be careful on what you do. BC's are VERY sensitive dogs. Something like a pop on the butt may cause problems later. Like if someone comes up behind him and touches his butt. He may grow to think that when his butt gets a pop or touched he's in trouble.

 

Juts try to be fair about what you get mad at him for.

[RaisingRiver]

When my non-BC was a pup, I did have to 'go crazy on her' the first time she growled at me when she had a bone because I had small children at the time and I wanted her to know it was never ok to resource guard. She got the point.

 

With my BCs, just using a commanding man-like voice and looming over them works really really well. If they were doing something that would escalate into something evil, I wouldn't hesitate to reinforce with a good butt smack as appropriate. Goes the same for my kids.

[pammyd]

its easy to loose your temper

But I didnt really correct ben a whole lot when he was 3 months

at that time I figured he didnt know what he was supposed to be doing so I was in the wrong for not teaching him right

 

Having said that I think I have been too nice with the positives cos now if I do the voice of god he comes running wagging his tail like "this is a new funny voice"

[Guest pax]

The only time I'd ever smack a dog is if it was about to bite a person and by smacking it I could head it off.

 

I worked with horses a long time, and I learned...hitting ALWAYS comes back to bite you in the ass. The animals attitude towards you changes. I want a willing, trusting partner, not a scared dog.

 

I think it's completely counter productive. In terms of physical correction, I use only what the dogs use among themselves... a verbal warning, at MOST I'll knee someone aside and ignore them. What I found worked for puppy nipping is grabbing the muzzle, a quick squeeze, and a solid loud "NO".

 

And the truth is, do you really want to get into a tangle with a dog that decides to take a whack back at you? They may be smaller but I tell you, their teeth can put a hole in me faster than mine can put a hole in them. I watched someone make this mistake with a Black Russian Terrier. He tried the alpha roll thing and ended up on the deck with the dog on top. Granted, it's not as likely with a BC, but the principle is the same.

 

Nothing's ever solved by force.

[painted_ponies]

Hitting never works for me. Not with dogs or horses - and I'm in the same kind of culture with my horses that you're in with your dog, surrounded by people who think a person is "too soft" or "ruining" their horses if they don't smack them. Eh. I've just had to learn to ignore those people, 'cause with my younger horse smacking him for nipping actually made him worse. Apparently, in "horse language," or at least Quanah's particular dialect , a smack when he nipped meant "OK, I'll play the nipping game - here, I'll nip you back."

 

I think it's the same with dogs. They don't hit each other, after all, and I'm not sure they understand what is meant by a swat on the bottom. I've found other actions to be more effective. For instance, cat chasing=being put into a crate all alone for five minutes. Chewing something - well, really it is my fault if I've given a pup access to something that she isn't supposed to chew - like my favorite pair of oxblood flats . I just never let my pup out unless I can see and/or hear her, and when she grabs something she's not supposed to have I make an angry-seagull sound - AAANGH! - and swap her a chew toy for whatever contraband she's got. If she's done something really awful - like cornering the cat, for example, something where she or someone else is going to get hurt - I have taken her by the scruff of the neck and yelled and shaken her. But it only works once or twice before my little hardhead figures out I'm not going to kill her and maybe the awful thing is fun enough to make being shaken worthwhile.

 

I think you've answered your own question, though. If swatting your pup makes you and her unhappy, then I wouldn't do it if I were you. I think you should just experiment till you find a correction that doesn't make you feel awful and doesn't result in your pup acting depressed. As said above, some BCs really are too soft for physical correction. Faith, my pup, bounces right back but Violet, my adult, would wilt into the carpet and stay there for days if anyone were to raise a hand to her.

[Guest pax]

Hitting never works for me. Not with dogs or horses - and I'm in the same kind of culture with my horses that you're in with your dog, surrounded by people who think a person is "too soft" or "ruining" their horses if they don't smack them. Eh. I've just had to learn to ignore those people, 'cause with my younger horse smacking him for nipping actually made him worse. Apparently, in "horse language," or at least Quanah's particular dialect , a smack when he nipped meant "OK, I'll play the nipping game - here, I'll nip you back."

 

 

You know what, in Europe women don't handle stallions. I know my ex to this day won't let me handle a stallion unless we know him pretty well.

 

I almost lost my hand once to a man eater and I am quite happy for other people to handle the mad ones from the ground. I'm too small to mess around with them.

110 lbs of noise vs 1500 lbs of coiled muscle. No brainer who wins there if you get into a pissing contest.

 

Now, get me on top and I'm all good.

 

Try a chifney. If he's got something in his mouth when you're working with him he's less likely to try to bite.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I've scruffed pups to get their attention. Since I rarely have to do this more than a couple times to any one pup, for any reason, and they seem to live through it, it must be both effective and minimally traumatic.

 

There are times when a dog is in his own world and need a little physical reminder to get them back on Planet I Feed You. Any time you touch a dog, remember that not only your hand but your entire body is invading his space and possibly even taking away his ability to "give" to you and do the right thing. That's why the "alpha roll" is so very, very misguided in my thinking. An ideal reminder pop will give the dog the freedom to act appropriately, immediately.

 

Say I've got a young dog on leash and he takes a notion to growl at other dogs - protecting "his" person. Big no-no in my book. I try a NO first, then if that doesn't work, pop him on the butt and turn away. This seems to do three things in the dog's mind:

 

Communicates clearly that he was behaving inappropriately

"Resets" the stage, taking the pressure off him, letting him think about his next move

Offers an appropriate alternative to his previous behavior - and something to think about besides that other dog - "Oh my gosh, I'm getting left behind! Maybe I'd better go make up . . ."

 

If he responds well at the third step I can then tell the dog what a good boy he's being, turn around, and see whether he'll be a good boy with the other dog in view. I don't remember ever having to tap a dog a second time at this point - really I guess it's because I have it in my head that if I have to resort to physicality, be it ever so mild, twice for the same thing, we need a new game plan. It's just too hard to use physical interaction appropriately as a correction in a proper sense - at least it is for me.

[PSmitty]

To me, it depends on the context of the situation, the temperament of the dog being popped and the feelings of the owner at the time. I'm pretty much a positive type trainer, and I would never want my dogs to fear me, to be in fear of being hurt by me, so I don't "hit" them. As already said, it can be counter-productive, and there are usually better ways of dealing with the problem

 

However, having said all that, I know my dogs best and what usually works in what situation. There have been times I've "flicked" them, or used a finger to tap or poke at them. I don't consider this hitting, but more of an attention getter. Jack is very soft, a slap would send him hiding for days, but a quick poke while I say, "NO!" gets the message through. Do I have to do this every time? No, as I said, it's all about the context and what the situation calls for.

 

BTW, I'm talking about adult dogs, not puppies.

 

Bottom line, Rskillz, if you don't like how it made either of you feel, it seems you've already got your answer.

[bettilu]

To me, it depends on the context of the situation, the temperament of the dog being popped and the feelings of the owner at the time. I'm pretty much a positive type trainer, and I would never want my dogs to fear me, to be in fear of being hurt by me, so I don't "hit" them. As already said, it can be counter-productive, and there are usually better ways of dealing with the problem

 

However, having said all that, I know my dogs best and what usually works in what situation. There have been times I've "flicked" them, or used a finger to tap or poke at them. I don't consider this hitting, but more of an attention getter. Jack is very soft, a slap would send him hiding for days, but a quick poke while I say, "NO!" gets the message through. Do I have to do this every time? No, as I said, it's all about the context and what the situation calls for.

 

BTW, I'm talking about adult dogs, not puppies.

 

Bottom line, Rskillz, if you don't like how it made either of you feel, it seems you've already got your answer.

 

I have used physical punishment before on other dogs (again, to reiterate everyone else...not abusively) but swatted with newspapers, etc...but not with this boy...he is way to sensitive....verbal correction and praise seems to work best with him...but I do think that it depends on the behavior and the dog.

[G. Festerling]

To make matters worse now he seems a bit down in the dumps like he can do no right. He's only 3 months old. I'm in no way mean to him and 99% of the time we are super happy.

This statement makes no sense to me. If all is ok 99% of the time then why do you think that a 3 months old pup is down cause he feels he can't do anything right.

In your case, although I don't think by any stretch of the imagination that you are hurting him or are a bad owner, heck I know how you feel we all have been there, maybe you need to manage things to where he can do more things right than wrong.

And I don't know what the issues are but maybe take him out more often and regular if he has a tendency to piddle in the house. Give him toys he likes better if he chews on stuff. Put him up if you can't at that moment pay 100% attention to him and he could get in trouble.

Oh yeah, keep the cell out of reach!

I don't believe a small swat on the rump will hurt him. But for any correction to work properly it has to be delivered promptly and accuratly with the animal being able to understand why and what a better response could be. Plus without emotion as much as possible.

[KellyR]

I'm glad all the 'never hit, ever ever' folks didn't get to meet Kaleb at 13mos old. That dog was evil. Would nip and he knew how to push buttons and was very good at it. He's a gentle, intelligent, obedient beauty now, but yeesh.. *shudders*

 

On that note.

 

[Shetlander]

Bottom line, Rskillz, if you don't like how it made either of you feel, it seems you've already got your answer.

 

Excellent advice right there in a nutshell!

[painted_ponies]

You know what, in Europe women don't handle stallions. I know my ex to this day won't let me handle a stallion unless we know him pretty well.

 

Really? I had no idea. I've always suspected Quanah's nipping problem was caused in part by being left entire too long. Or maybe he's a rig - he and the mares at my boarding stable always acted as though he still had at least part of his bits. Luckily for me, Quanah's never been a biter, though. We used to board a gelding at the stable who took a woman's ear off once , but Quanah was always just the "pinch a piece of skin really hard and leave a bruise" type, not a perforator. Anyways, he's stopped nipping altogether since I brought him home and got him away from people who smacked him for it.

 

Now, get me on top and I'm all good.

Never heard it put quite that way.

 

There are times when a dog is in his own world and need a little physical reminder to get them back on Planet I Feed You.

Been there with Faith. In fact, I just had a reminder with her of the truth of this statement:

Any time you touch a dog, remember that not only your hand but your entire body is invading his space and possibly even taking away his ability to "give" to you and do the right thing.

I'm trying to get a down at a distance on her, which at times is an exercise in frustration. So this morning I reached down and pushed her over. Faith may be hard-headed, but she's as sweet-tempered a dog as they come. Imagine my surprise then when I wound up with collie jaws encircling my wrist! But looking back on it, I reckon I can see her point of view. I didn't shove her hard, but I did take away her ability to do the right thing and remained right up in her grill after I did it. You get what you give, don't you? I made her a little uncomfortable and she returned the favor.

[Nik]

Here's the thing w/ my dogs....I don't have a problem (even though I don't like to) giving them a little swat when needed and they aren't soft when I do it. Probably because when my husband gives them hugs and luvs he gives them "love pats" that tend to be about the same as a swat from either one of us. Nothing that will hurt them, mind you, just get their attention, so its more like a positive for them in the sense that redirects them to us that they are getting our attention instead of the other way around. (I hope I said that right and you get my meaning )

 

With that said, its not very often that I do have to give them real swats. Usually only when they try to invade the trash can (and yes they KNOW that is a no-no, but have to try sometimes anyway) or when they tend to get mouthy w/ each other before a fight starts to break out. I have now gotten them to the point that I just have to walk up and look at them for this one and they start licking each other making it better between them, but on the rare occasion that it doesn't stop right away a swat breaks their attention span away from it.

 

Like others have said though, mine aren't puppies anymore either, but when they do get older if you let them get away w/ the wrong things they are doing, they will take that opportunity every chance they get.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

this morning I reached down and pushed her over

 

Try the time-honored tradition of stepping on the leash and giving her the hint by taking up the slack (which will now pull her towards the ground).

 

Again, don't do this leaning towards her or even facing her, but while you are walking along with her at your side. Not even looking at her, say "LIE DOWN!" get that leash under your foot, and if need be, give it a tug.

 

Be sure you reward any offer on her part to anticipate the tug by going down on her own. Doesn't have to be down all the way. But if you have to take her down all the way, wait until she relaxes. Say, "Atta girl!" and move on cheerfully.

 

This is my second least favorite way of teaching a down - I think I've used it exactly once, but some dogs just don't seem to get it without a huge hint.

[shanni and kingsley]

the shelter that i got kingsley from suspects that the ex-owner hit him.. and that's why he developed certain behaviours.

 

1. fear aggressiveness towards males and other dogs

 

it developed to a point where when cornered, kingsley used to lash out and bite to fend off any threats.

 

however, with much work.. he's toned down sososos much that he is no longer display that kind of behaviour towards humans.

 

i believe in correction for him.. but not smacking or anything like that. My doggy sitter (experienced) tried to smack him once, he gave that intense angry look that somehow you know that if he gets pushed or smack.. he is capable of lashing out.

 

so instead, he got timed out.. and punished with a down and stay there until he listens and do something correctly again and it works for him.

[Bo Peep]

Listen to the dog. Most of my BC's very very timid and only needed a simple NO and they broke their bad habits. Usher is different. I have a paper towel roller that I hit on the table to get his attention. Never hit him with it, just the table. He has of course chewed it up over night only to wake up to a wrapping paper package holder. HEHEHEHE. Louder thump. I think it's so easy to correct with a noise rather clicker for good or your doggie Nazi that English woman with the whip & boots (lol-she works, with the ut oh- growl) but the paper towel holder on the table or a water squirt er works good for some. Keep tyring until something works. Best wishes!!!

Dianne

 

P.S. If I would have shown people my old dog Migraine, they would have thought she was abused. To the contrary, she was just very timid and I had her from the time she was born. She usually was the one that chewed things up, so when I looked at the dogs and asked "Who did this?" She would slither away, where ever or not she did. Crazy gal.

Dianne