Anxiety or Misbehaving?

[smileyzookie]

Previously I wrote about Riven's issues being away from me. Here is a quote from the previous post.

Also anytime Im not around her she whines and acts annoying to whoever is around. She wouldnt stop barking and would work herself into a fit. She would end up panting for like an hour afterwards and then immediately fall asleep when I came back because she wore herself out. She has this incredible fear of being left alone, and it is horrible if I leave her. She'll spend the whole time looking for me, even if my husband is there.

Tonight my husband took me to see Superman, and out to dinner. We were gone about 5 hours and we decided to leave Riven out of the crate while we were gone. We have been leaving her out if we are gone without her (rarely). Max we've left her is about 3 hours ( I doubt it was ever that long). Anyway, we came home to dog poo in the hallway. She hasnt done this in MONTHS. I took her out twice before we left as well.

 

I dont know why all of a sudden she's decided to leave presents in the hall but I dont appreciate it. I dont know if she worked herself up and stressed out and did it. We've noticed she has to run and exercise before she goes poo. Did she pace so much she had to go? Did she just not care? Or is she just being bad? I dont want to crate her every time Im gone. I want to be able to let her sleep in the bed and relax, greet me and be happy. If we crate her she barks the whole time (we can hear her when we've driven by), and when we come in she is panting, has obviously been doing circles or pacing as much as she can.

 

She obviously has a fear of being left alone. But what do I do? Just never leave her alone? Is it cause she was abandoned before? My husband thinks she was so abused that she is taking on this role that she will just freak if she doesnt see us, and a lot worse if she cant see me. My husband can control her if Im not there, but she is getting worse and panics when she cant see me. Am I too close to her? Is it my fault for spending so much time with her? Im near tears cause I dont know how to help her or what to do.

 

I cant have her crapping in my hall on my beautiful wood floor, but I cant crate her and let her panic worse either. Leaving her in the yard is not an option. She's too sweet and someone would either take her, or she'd bark nonstop. Or she'd freak out so much she'd try to jump over the fence and hurt herself or get hit by a car. She has no respect for cars.

 

We thought we were doing good, we correct her differently. We leave her alone a little at a time, and now I feel like we're back to square one. How long will she live with trama from her first year? Will it take a year, 5 years or will she never get over being left? Or does it even have anything to do with being abandoned? Can she help it? Do I correct her? Argh I could go on and on. I hope this isnt too jumbled up.

[Beth G]

oh man it sounds as it it is definately anxiety.

 

She may be stressing each time you leave because she thinks that she may lose you like she lost her first home. Does this sound like a possible reason?

 

I've hears trainers say that it can be the reason but can't be sure.

[iluvlucy]

I left Lucy with my mom tomgo shopping and my mom said she actually howled. I too dont know how to make her understand that we will be back.

[TheStacks]

Some suggestions my friend tried when working with a trainer. Figure out what signals her that you are leaving. If it is picking up your keys, putting on your shoes, showering, etc. Then do those things randomly through the day. And then do not leave. Do this as alot through the day. Start leaving everyday. Even if you do not have to go somewhere. Start small, for a few seconds, then work up to longer amounts of time.

 

I would not correct her. You do not want her to associate your leaving and returning with getting in trouble.

 

As for the amount of time, my friend's dog sounds a lot like yours. But I do not think she had quite the baggage Riven has. This may take quite a bit of time.

 

Another good source would be Melanie or Miztiki. Melanie's website details Solo's SA pretty well.

 

Good Luck!

 

Lauren

[MaggieDog]

Been there, done that, still working on it.

 

Maggie won't eliminate in the house when I'm gone, but if confined, she'll bark, whine, pace, pant, and drool until I return.

 

Currently I'm working w/ a holistic vet using herbs to treat the anxiety and so far it's mixed results. She doesn't shred things like she used to and is better w/ other dogs and around bikes, but the separation anxiety is still there mostly intact. We're going to work with another vet while I'm here in NoVa this summer I think.

 

You may want to just devote several days to working up to being gone several hours and not leave her alone until she's ok w/ a certain period of time. The idea is you gradually work up to leaving, first for a min, then a few more mins, gradually upping it so she never exhibits the anxious behavior, but you gradually extend the time you're gone. How long it takes to get up to a calm several hours depends on the dog.

 

A search of this site might give you more info on separation anxiety. Do you give her chewies when you leave? Sometimes having a yummy kong takes their mind off you leaving enough to prevent the panic from setting in.

[urge to herd]

Doesn't sound like misbehaving, sounds like terrible fear and anxiety to me. You didn't cause it, Riven was born with the tendency and her circumstances brought it out.

 

Work with a vet if you can, who can guide you as to appropriate medication. If you want to go the holistic route, fine, but do work with a professional. There's too much that could go wrong.

 

If you can get ahold of Whole Dog Journal, this last issue had an article about a dog with SA and what the owner did. Very informative, and it might be available on line for a fee.

 

You can order Patricia McConnell's booklet, "I'll Be Home Soon" to get started with a de-sensitization program if you like, but from the sounds of things, she really needs to see a vet/behaviorist for this. It's available at Dogwise.com.

 

A warning, the de-sensitization program can be very slow, each step is very, very tiny. This is something that can take weeks if not months to deal with.

 

I know it sounds pretty horrendous, but it's doable. Please don't think that Riven is at all behaving this way intentionally.

 

One of the things you can do now is have your husband feed her all her meals. If you're not already doing this, it will help Riven to associate good stuff on a regular basis coming from Hubby. It's always helpful, I think, to overly attached dogs be able to spread their attachment around a bit.

 

Good luck, please let us know how you get on. If you have fears about drugging or tranquilizing your dog, the medications used for SA are not tranquilizers, and don't work that way at all. I'll be glad to pm you with Shoshone's experiences, (everybody here has already read it several times!)

 

Ruth n the BC3

[mosstheboss2000]

You definitly need to keep her crated when you leave for HER safety...

Work on the crate training... it should be a HAPPY place with you there or not...

Feed in the crate, play crate games.. give her quiet times in the crate even if you are home.

If you go out put her away before you start getting ready. When you come home wait 5-10 minutes before you let her out.. don't make a fuss.

Put the crate somewhere that she can watch you through the crate... I might suggest a cover but sounds like she would suck it in probably

Many dogs have anxiety issues... abused, abandoned or NOT Just accept that they are there are fix them !!!!!

EVERYONE will be happier!!

Cheers

Cindy

http://www.bordercollierescueont.com

[mado]

Maybe you could leave often , for very short periods , acting the part like you're leaving , coat , keys , shoes , the works , then come back very soon and pretend nothing's happened ?

I did this very often the first months , closed the door and went for a few minutes at a time , then pottered around the door , watering the flowers (she knew I was just outside) , and just walk in like nothing happened . The more you do it , the easier it will become for her to adapt . Whatever she does is just nerves and anxiety , so don't worry about the poo , it's as bad as chewing or barking but they are only symptoms of this anxiety thing ...

Now Tamyr feels it instantly when she's coming with me or when she stays alone , in the latter case she pouts a little and goes to her basket with a far away soulful look , but when I check through the window she just rushes to see if the cats left some food , then she goes to her basket and sleeps it off , I do leave the radio on . I hope this help because a guilt trip is the last thing anyone needs

[smileyzookie]

Ok so what Im hearing is randomly do things I'd do when I was goin somewhere. Makeup, shoes ect. Can she tell if I change clothes? Like the type of clothes I wear? I wear different clothes at home than I do out. Should I just start randomly changing?

 

My husband feeds her nearly every meal. I probably only feed her once a week. We do this because our trainer recommended it as well. Even from the beginning she attached to me, and she obviously cares about DH, she lays with him, licks him (she doesnt even lick me!), and usually listens. She follows me EVERYWHERE. My husband holds her when we walk, feeds her, takes her out (when he's home), lays on the bed and loves on her. He does more with her care than I do because the trainer said to. The 2nd day we had her, I went to lay on the bed (had a migraine during day) and she followed me. My husband was up doin stuff in the living room and she laid there with me watching the door to see if she could see what he was doing. She wouldnt leave my side. That was like 24 hours after we got her!

 

She is fine in the crate, will sometimes willingly go into it and sleep on her own. Its only when Im gone that she freaks out in it. I would definately not put a cover on it lol she'd inhale it. And as for toys, she doesnt like toys except the crappy cheap ones that I have to sit and watch her with. i.e. furry squeeky toys. She doesnt care about kongs, I've NEVER seen her bite one. She will lick the inside for about 5 minutes and she's bored lol.

 

My husband has forced us to leave MTV on since we got our cat. He says he was "raised on mtv" and it "comforts" him. IMO the cat could give a hoot that we've been gone. So there's always music on when we leave anyway.

 

I guess I hadnt realized Melanie's Solo had seperation issues.

[MaggieDog]

Ok by toys I meant stuffed kongs and treatballs - Maggie is often too nervous to eat from them, but sometimes she will if I give them right before I leave and she starts munching before I'm gone.

 

One thing to keep in mind: Clomicalm (SA drug) can increase aggression levels - it's listed as a side effect on the product info that came w/ my bottle. Since Maggie has guarding issues w/ other dogs, that drug will be my last resort.

 

Never use Ace w/ an anxious dog either - it keeps them from moving, but does nothing to calm their anxiety so you end up with a freaked out dog that can't move and this can make things worse in some cases.

 

And re: the crate - most of the time this is the safest place for an SA dog, however some dogs may be like my Maggie: she actually does *better* uncrated than crated. She has bent crate wires and shredded towels when crated, but if loose she will just wait by the door panting and barking; she's still stressed but I don't have to worry about her hurting herself as much.

[smileyzookie]

Maggie, thats exactly my thoughts on crating. My only other concern is that I dont know what happens to my cat from her while we're gone. I've come in to him on the refridgerator before .. he's never gone up there before or since. But she's been crated and I found him in the tub.. same thing never before or since. I think maybe he's trying to escape her barking. He never acts scared of her by any means, and never seems hurt.

 

I dont want to drug her up, I'd like to try to do it without drugs. Although I suffer from anxiety issues(mood swings/depression/panic attacks)I know at my LOW points the only thing to pull me out is Zoloft or time. Is it the same with her? Or does my messed up emotional state have somethign to do with how bad hers is?

 

I will try the Kongs again. The problem is the only thing I can find she likes is Cream Cheese, and thats gone in like 2 minutes even frozen. LOL Peanut butter doesnt intrest her either. Any ideas of something super yummy?

[MaggieDog]

Hmm well you do have a small challenge there when it comes to kongs. Have you tried the spray cheese or liver filling the Kong Company makes? If you layered that w/ kibble and froze it it might last longer. Have you tried yogurt or beef broth frozen?

 

On the anxiety topic: Rescue Remedy can work for some dogs - it's a flower essence combo and won't drug them, just takes the edge off.

 

Comfort Zone is a product that mimics the pheromone mother dogs secrete to puppies and can calm some dogs as well - it didn't work for Maggie, but I've heard with some dogs it makes all the difference.

 

Currently Maggie takes herbs prescribed by our vet - getting a tailored set of herbs via consult w/ a vet is essential since what works best depends on the dog. I'm still working on getting the dosages and herbs in the combo right, but I have hope. www.holisticvetlist.com should help you find someone in your area.

[MaggieDog]

I just checked the address I gave you and there are 3 vets listed for Idaho: one in Grace and two in Boise - hopefully they're not too far away, but even if they are you might be able to do a phone consult instead of an office visit.

[Zoe]

Hi, I have to leave now but please have a look at this. I have posted it before. It is what I did with Dylan and it worked - took a long time though ! web page

[smileyzookie]

Oh my gosh, as I read that page Zoe posted something really stuck out to me.

even just sitting up watching you, rather than lying down, fully relaxed.

I looked over at her and she was sitting there watching me. She ALWAYS does that. She just stares at me. I've noticed recently that Im practically falling over her. Even if I go into the kitchen, bathroom, bedroom whatever she is right behind me. I got up and got the remote control to the tv about 5 feet from where she was and turned and almost fell over her. I've tried putting her in a stay osition, and she will stay there but I can tell she's completely tense practically drooling and her nose starts running. She'll watch every move I make.

[smileyzookie]

I swear Im about to have a mental breakdown. She crapped in the hall AGAIN. I was here all day! I dont know when she could have even done it, except when I made her lay outside the kitchen while I fixed lunch for my husband.

 

I was so mad when I saw it... I mean MAD. I just put her in a crate in a room and closed the door. She knows better! SHE KNOWS BETTER. And when she saw it she walked over and sniffed it right in front of me!! Like ah yeah thats my crap. :mad: I just told her no, grabbed her leash and put her in her crate. Im so frustrated. What am I supposed to do crate her all dam day? I have NO clue when she did it, she is always with me!!! It definately isnt the cats crap, it is a massive pile, and doesnt even smell bad (Im sure it smells but I didnt notice it). If it was Rohan's I'd have known about 3 seconds later. I cant believe Im back to not trusting her again. Im gonna baby gate off the kitchen and block the hallway, and confine her to the living room. I cant believe I have to do this. Especially cause I try so hard everytime she goes outside to praise praise praise. :confused:

[Anda]

Oh, I'm so sorry she's giving you such a hard time! And what bad timing, with those disgusting bugs... The only thing I can advise you is not to let her in the halway unsupervised, spray that area so it would smell of desinfectant instead of her "wonderful" markings.

 

Make sure she's ok, health wise, Ouzo did #2 a couple of times in the house when he had giardia, but, man, it was obvious something wasn't ok in his tummy. He did mark our bed once, peeing when he was alone in the bedroom, but that was just one OFF incident, and nothing like this has happened since. He's resumed to marking just the vets office

[smileyzookie]

We gave her a beef bone for the first time last night, I noticed the stool was a bit loose. Im wondering if maybe she just cant handle beef or something? But it stil wasnt liquid enough for her not to be able to alert me she wanted out.

[Anda]

It might be because of the beef bone, it might have upset her stomach and maybe she got scarred and just let it go out

[MaggieDog]

I would second the suggestion of keeping an eye on her "outputs" for a bit to make sure she isn't dealing w/ a tummy upset of some kind. Also, are you cleaning the messes up w/ an enzyme product specifically for pet stains? If not she may be smelling past accidents and thinks it's ok to go there now.

[smileyzookie]

I have wood floors I cant use a lot of stuff. We've just been usign water and wiping it a lot. When we moved in the landlord said the floors couldnt be cleaned with anything, not even soapy water. ONLY water and a mop... so, any suggestions on something that would be wood floor safe? And what do u mean enzyme, like what enzyme would I need?

[sandra s.]

Originally posted by smileyzookie:

We gave her a beef bone for the first time last night, I noticed the stool was a bit loose. Im wondering if maybe she just cant handle beef or something?

It might just be the change. When you switch to raw (or any other new kind of food) you're always warned to do it gradually to avoid diarrhea etc, so it could be that.

 

Doesn't explain her crapping in the hall, though :confused: Could something else be scaring her, something you can't hear? Kessie goes nuts when our downstairs neighbours use the vacuum cleaner, and sometimes I wouldn't even have noticed the sound because music was playing over it.

[Meg's mum]

We have house training issues with Meg as well.

There are months when she's fine, and weeks when she's the opposite.

 

Her triggers are : my unavailability to play, one of the "off limits" rooms doors being left open, the runs; not pooping when we let her out in the first time in the morning, or the last time at night.

 

Lately she's started to pee in the house from time to time, but I'm convinced that's because of the automated waterfall waterbowl that she and Sox drink from all day and night.