BorderDoodles?

[Dragoon 45]

It seems there is now a breeder in SE Oklahoma, that is selling BorderDoodles for $800-$1000 per pup, using state wide newspaper ads. My first thought was someone had an accidential litter, then I found out this breeder had been in operation for a least three years.

 

The logic behind a deliberate cross of these two breeds escapes me. Herding ability will be greatly disminished, I don't see any gain in athletic ability, and if lucky maybe some of the pups will shed a little less. I just don't see what is gained crossing these two breeds.

 

Can someone fill me in on what this is trying to accomplish?

[Jumpin Boots]

 

Can someone fill me in on what this is trying to accomplish?

Sounds like someone is trying to pad their pocket book.

[Sue R]

Sounds like someone is trying to pad their pocket book.

 

Sounds about right to me. Selling mutts to the gullible for more than a quality purebred, working-bred pup would sell for in most instances.

[GentleLake]

What they said.

 

It's for money, pure and simple. <grrrrrr>

[Gideon's girl]

$800-$1000 for a mutt that you have no idea of what you have. It may shed, it may not. It may act like a BC, or a poodle, or somewhere inbetween. It may be this size or that. And on and on, for $800-$1000. Yeah, it's money, pure and simple, and maybe a bit of the feeling they get with every successful con job. What would that be, superiority?

[Dragoon 45]

It makes no sense to me other than a con job, but just maybe there was a real purpose besides fleecing people out of their money. I was just trying to figure if another reason might exist.

[Maralynn]

The only thing they're doing besides making money is ruining two perfectly good breeds. I mean they're really similar in intelligence and trainability. Poodles are a bit less intense but still fairly high energy. There is no advantage that I could possibly come up with that a cross of the two breeds would give you. The only thing you're going to get is offspring with unpredictable traits

[mum24dog]

Dragoon 45, on 06 Nov 2013 - 20:35, said:

The logic behind a deliberate cross of these two breeds escapes me. Herding ability will be greatly disminished, I don't see any gain in athletic ability, and if lucky maybe some of the pups will shed a little less. I just don't see what is gained crossing these two breeds.

 

Can someone fill me in on what this is trying to accomplish?

This dog would argue on the question of athletic ability, and the owner's previous dog of the same mix was a Medium Ag Ch. I think she has had another too. Bear in mind that to get a place at all probably means beating well over 100 dogs, maybe over 2 or 300, probably the majority full BCs.

 

 

She has done Obedience and TV/film work with them too. She has also said in the past that she is/was a child minder. Perhaps she didn't want to risk having dogs that might run rings round the children or nip them. I don't know her other than by her posts on agility for a so I don't know.

 

Maybe she just doesn't want a full BC. I don't know whether she's ever run one but I know her daughter has had a couple of poodles. Whatever she wanted out of a dog she seems to have achieved it.

 

As far as what to expect from such a cross, hers are first crosses and remarkably consistent in appearance.

 

I'm not advocating such breeding or condemning it, just giving one possible answer to your question. As for price, it is whatever the market will stand. There are always people who have more money than sense and people to exploit that fact.

[vanillalove]

One of my biggest pet peeves is anything "doodle", or any designer, blended name (Shi-Po, Puggle, etc) It just fosters a terrible environment for backyard breeders. I wish it would disappear.

[Oko]

One of my biggest pet peeves is anything "doodle", or any designer, blended name (Shi-Po, Puggle, etc) It just fosters a terrible environment for backyard breeders. I wish it would disappear.

I don't know, does it really foster byb more than having purebreds does?

[GentleLake]

I don't know, does it really foster byb more than having purebreds does?

 

Probably not. I'm pretty sure the BYBs, puppy mills and any others who are just out to make a quick buck will jump into breeding any kind of dog that's the dog-fad-of-the-moment. <sigh>

[Kelleybean]

This dog would argue on the question of athletic ability, and the owner's previous dog of the same mix was a Medium Ag Ch. I think she has had another too. Bear in mind that to get a place at all probably means beating well over 100 dogs, maybe over 2 or 300, probably the majority full BCs.

 

 

She has done Obedience and TV/film work with them too. She has also said in the past that she is/was a child minder. Perhaps she didn't want to risk having dogs that might run rings round the children or nip them. I don't know her other than by her posts on agility for a so I don't know.

 

Maybe she just doesn't want a full BC. I don't know whether she's ever run one but I know her daughter has had a couple of poodles. Whatever she wanted out of a dog she seems to have achieved it.

 

As far as what to expect from such a cross, hers are first crosses and remarkably consistent in appearance.

 

I'm not advocating such breeding or condemning it, just giving one possible answer to your question. As for price, it is whatever the market will stand. There are always people who have more money than sense and people to exploit that fact.

 

That dog is fairly fast, but not as fast as most BCs I know. My girl is definitely faster (and prettier!) IMO.

[Sue R]

First crosses tend to be fairly consistent in appearance as far as I understand. It is second crosses where things tend to be all over the spectrum.

 

As far as what to expect from such a cross, hers are first crosses and remarkably consistent in appearance.

[Laurelin]

It seems there is now a breeder in SE Oklahoma, that is selling BorderDoodles for $800-$1000 per pup, using state wide newspaper ads. My first thought was someone had an accidential litter, then I found out this breeder had been in operation for a least three years.

 

The logic behind a deliberate cross of these two breeds escapes me. Herding ability will be greatly disminished, I don't see any gain in athletic ability, and if lucky maybe some of the pups will shed a little less. I just don't see what is gained crossing these two breeds.

 

Can someone fill me in on what this is trying to accomplish?

 

I have seen border doodles in pet stores in OK a few years ago.

[vanillalove]

Probably not. I'm pretty sure the BYBs, puppy mills and any others who are just out to make a quick buck will jump into breeding any kind of dog that's the dog-fad-of-the-moment. <sigh>

 

I guess that's true. I feel like I see a lot of those "pretty names" around where I'm from - it seems like it's more of an attraction, especially to the younger crowds. But yes - I suppose purebreds also foster that same environment.

 

*sigh x 2*

[cwb3]

You lost me at "doodle"!

[speckle-legged dog]

Probably trying to cash in on breeding the two "smartest" breeds together.

 

We got our border collie mix by going to the shelter, so obviously this is a bit pricey for us (though I won't admit how much I spend on agility trials and general doggie bling, LOL).

[GentleLake]

I'll bet for most people it has as much to do with the belief that they're producing a hypoallergenic and/or shedding-free dog. Not that they're either.

 

And then they go for the BC part of the mix because everyone knows they're the smartest dogs. (I get so tired of hearing that, even though we all know they are! But we also know all the extra work and involvement that can entail.)

 

Y'know what they say about fools and their money . . .

[Tommy Coyote]

I can understand breeding for a superior agility dog. At least this lady has a purpose for what she is doing. She's not doing that to make money selling her dogs - except maybe to other serious agility people.

 

The man who first bred the labradoodles was trying to breed a superior service dog or guide dog. He had no intention of creating this kind of market for the dogs. I think he was really sorry about the unintended consequences of his breeding.

 

Boy, those dogs are really good at agility. I love to watch those clips. Agility is really exciting.

[Root Beer]

I guess if someone really loves Border Collies and Poodles, they might like that mix. I will admit that I really love a Border Collie/Lab mix. No, the dog doesn't always get the best qualities of both, but I still really, really like them. Although my preference is a full Border Collie, I very well might get another Border Collie/Lab mix on purpose, although of course I would go through rescue if I chose to do so. I would do that before I would ever get a Lab even though I really like them.

 

Granted, I concur with those who say that this particular breeder is out for money, but theoretically, I can see that there are probably people who like the Border Collie/Poodle mix.

[Root Beer]

The man who first bred the labradoodles was trying to breed a superior service dog or guide dog. He had no intention of creating this kind of market for the dogs. I think he was really sorry about the unintended consequences of his breeding.

 

Yes, there is an article going around where is quoted expressing regret for that very reason.

[Liz P]

I can tell you right now that people used to give away mutts or sell them cheap when they had oops litters. Now every accidental mixed pup is being sold for big bucks around here. The people pretend they did it on purpose, think of a slick name and dupe people. What I've seen is a drop in the price of purebred pups, but people are willing to pay big for the mutts falsely believing they will be healthier. (The ONLY places hybrid vigor seems to come into play is the immune system and fertility.)

 

No laws saying you can't cross breeds. I personally think it becomes ethically wrong when you falsely advertise them as being superior to purebreds. For my purposes (wanting a good working sheep dog), the doodles make NO sense. I've seen some good cross breds, but they were BC x Beardie, BC x Kelpie, etc and both parents were great working dogs in their own right.

[mum24dog]

That dog is fairly fast, but not as fast as most BCs I know. My girl is definitely faster (and prettier!) IMO.

You probably haven't seen as many BCs as I have since our agility classes run into the hundreds, mostly BCs when you get into the higher grades. There are plenty of slow BCs, moderately fast BCs and extremely fast BCs. That one is only in the second grade up from where it would have started in the video and beating plenty of BCs to get placed.

 

And I thought appearance didn't matter.

[mum24dog]

I can understand breeding for a superior agility dog. At least this lady has a purpose for what she is doing. She's not doing that to make money selling her dogs - except maybe to other serious agility people.

Actually she didn't breed the dogs I know she has and afaik doesn't breed them. She's aware of the problems of inconsistency when you start crossing crosses so at least in the past has returned to a breeder whose dogs throw the sort she likes, as people who want a dog for a particular purpose here often seem to do.

 

Haven't come across her lately so don't know if her stance has changed in recent years.

[dogrsqr]

Well I can see the Border Collie half helping out the Poodle half in both better athletic conformation and intelligence, but I don't see what the Poodle part brings to the party. People keep telling me that Poodles are smart, but I haven't seen it myself. The ones I've encountered are definitely hyper, and I don't see much going on upstairs.

 

If we're all about breeding Border Collies for working ability doesn't mixing with non-herding breeds go against that?

 

I've owned several mixes and all came from the local shelter. One was a great agility dog and part BC. I think you can generally find great agility dogs in rescue if you're patient and know what to look for. Lots of dogs end up in shelters or rescue only because they have too much energy for their purely pet homes.