Debbie Meier Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Does anyone in the area of the OP have some extra kennel panels laying around with a large dog house, a quick 8' x 16' x 6' (+/-) foot chainlink kennel with a cap on a good hard surface where they can't see cars or livestock would probably due the trick, atleast for as long as it will take to get them into new homes. That way she can kennel them when she goes to work and then do her work with them when she gets home and hubby has nothing to worry about. The humane society in town offered to loan me some of their kennel panels if I was willing to take their overflow dogs a couple years back. Deb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Pat, what methods have you and your husband used in trying to train the dogs? Is there a book you've read and tried to follow? If we knew what you've tried, we might be better able to suggest some ways you haven't tried that might work for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Good God, woman, you're the one with thumbs. Why is this hard????? It's hard because she took on two energetic dogs without a full picture of what that meant, long-term. (I did the same thing with a reactive dog... and spent a lot of weeks wondering, early on, if I should re-surrender him.) And she loves the dogs now, and is frustrated that the primary person home with them during the day doesn't have the same level of training expectation as she does. And she's trying to figure out the best thing to do for the dogs, which at some level of frustration begins to seem like rehoming them. Seems to me the OP is reading the forum and listening to what people are saying - which is good rather than bad for the dogs, long-term. Assume that we want her to finish this conversation for the sake of the dogs. Take into account the jangling nerves she must feel to even consider rehoming. In that light, I'd say that we can best achieve our goal of helping the dogs if we pad our advice with a bit of empathy. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pammyd Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 mbc you are right I was going to jump on the OP about training and stuff We need more information to help What have you tried? what does your OH do/ not do with the dogs during the day - and what would they be willing to do How often are the dogs out alone? What training do they have at the moment? Do they have any other issues? Do you want to work to fix the dogs problems or do you want to rehome them?? because, although it is difficult to imagine letting your dog go for such a trainable problem if the OP has given up and will not commit to 100% training them and the OH then it would be better for the dogs to be rehomed (although I know this is the last thing the rescues need) rather than for them to continue getting worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I turn out 25 strange dogs(all sizes) daily in a 1 acre fenced enclosure. I have border collies who were reported to have climbed 6 foot enclosures who never leave. So the idea is they were feeling alone not needing to get away. I have a true running border collie who will leave if the front gate opens and I will see in in about an hour after he checks out my whole town and I search endlessly for him. I had a running bc for 12 years and he was regularly on a 30 foot cable when outside but, came in and out and slept inside and I had areas to take him off leash but, with small children that wasnt as often as it should have been. He was happy. We played fetch inside. He loved to run over the bed and under to entertain my daughter. He would run when he got the chance but, it also cost us thousands when he did. He may have drank antifreeze and he was attacked by a coyote lost part of his tounge. mult stitches for that episode. It's a real bad idea to keep them loose. I use radio fence for 4 border collies sucessfully at my home but, that doesnt happen for everyone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painted_ponies Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Seems to me the OP is reading the forum and listening to what people are saying - which is good rather than bad for the dogs, long-term. Assume that we want her to finish this conversation for the sake of the dogs. Take into account the jangling nerves she must feel to even consider rehoming. In that light, I'd say that we can best achieve our goal of helping the dogs if we pad our advice with a bit of empathy. No doubt you're right, Mary. I think I have reached the level of frustration with rescue - meaning all owners, and not directing this at the OP - where I am no longer a part of the solution. So I think I'll bow out of the discussion now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Thank you, Mary, for your sensible and thoughtful post. I surely hope that she is reading and finding a sense of hope that she can deal with the problem, keep her dogs, and progress. I do wish her the very best and hope that nothing I have said has had a negative impact on her solving this problem and keeping her loved dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 If you want help from an internet forum... 1) clearly state the problem 2) outline your goals and what you hope to gain from the advice you are seeking 3) list the solutions you have tried and why (or why you think) they did not work 4) list any solutions you have considered but not tried and why you have not tried them (why you think they will not work for you) Eileen, feel free to make that list a sticky. I think it would save a lot of time and effort on the part of board members as well as prevent hurt feelings in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beachdogz Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Does anyone in the area of the OP have some extra kennel panels laying around Deb i never thought of that...when I was first putting up a kennel, there were a lot of kennel enclosures through the local paper. People are always buying and selling enclosures. Try Craig's list, or the local paper. I got a huge enclosure pen for like $75....they just wanted to get rid of it. I also sold my own panels this way when I decreased my kennel size and sold off three runs pretty cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phej Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 If you want help from an internet forum... 1) clearly state the problem 2) outline your goals and what you hope to gain from the advice you are seeking 3) list the solutions you have tried and why (or why you think) they did not work 4) list any solutions you have considered but not tried and why you have not tried them (why you think they will not work for you) Eileen, feel free to make that list a sticky. I think it would save a lot of time and effort on the part of board members as well as prevent hurt feelings in the future. I think Pat did all of the above. She explained what the problem was and asked for help with rehoming the pups -- she never asked for training advice. Pat, I too hope that after you read all of the great advice posted here you will try to keep the dogs. Please remember that you are their best shot given the number of untrained, adult mixes in shelters all over. But if you still decide that you cannot deal with the situation, you may want to consider rehoming only one of the girls. It is VERY likely that any rescue would have to separate them anyways and you may find that retraining one dog is much more managable than trying to work with two at the same time. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bc4ever Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I can identify with the husband who does nothing in the training department, and actually tries to sabotage what I do with Scooter. Somehow, probably because he's a Border Collie and quite intelligent, he's managed to be one way with me and another with DH without it confusing him too much. He does things with DH he wouldn't dream of doing with me. You must be so frustrated. Especially with two dogs and no support system. If you really feel you've tried everything to solve your problem (and be brutally honest with yourself), then I suppose the best thing for you and the dogs is to rehome them. The stress you're feeling is surely being felt by your dogs, which only makes things worse. In the end you have to decide what's best for you and the dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Actually, I don't think she did. In her original post... She stated the problem. She said electric fences did not work. Why? What kind? Are we talking invisible fencing or electrical wire fencing? She said she wants to find the dogs a home, but is that her goal or what she sees as the only remaining solution? I think it is clear from the responses she got that her original post in fact did not provide all the information people need in order to help her. Even the OP says, "I want to thank each of you for the replies. Some have been very hurtful and judgemental, since none of you know the whole issue, hindsight is 20/20." That says to me that her post did not contain all of the needed information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phej Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 Actually, I don't think she did. In her original post... She stated the problem. She said electric fences did not work. Why? What kind? Are we talking invisible fencing or electrical wire fencing? She said she wants to find the dogs a home, but is that her goal or what she sees as the only remaining solution? I think it is clear from the responses she got that her original post in fact did not provide all the information people need in order to help her. Even the OP says, "I want to thank each of you for the replies. Some have been very hurtful and judgemental, since none of you know the whole issue, hindsight is 20/20." That says to me that her post did not contain all of the needed information. Sorry I wasn't clear. I just meant to say that in her original post, Pat was looking for rehoming and not training advice. So it makes sense that she did not provide detailed info that would assist us in giving her training advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I'm sorry, but I'm with Mary on this one. Perhaps she could have been more diplomatic, but I value straightforwardness so I had no problem with how she expressed herself. This is not a complicated situation. It is not a training issue, it is a containment issue. The OP has been given good suggestions about how to put up an inexpensive fence, and it would seem that if she truly wants to keep her dogs, the solution is very simple. The only issue I can see is if the husband refuses to contain the dogs. Since he is the primary caretaker of the dogs, if he will not do what is necessary to keep the dogs out of trouble, then I agree the dogs need to be rehomed. If this were me and I were truly interested in doing everything I could to keep my beloved dogs, I would spend less time pouting over my hurt feelings and more time attempting to actually come up with a resolution for the situation. Sorry, but I've been in much more serious situations with my own dogs, so I have very little sympathy for people who make mountains out of molehills. For the OP, I lived in the middle of major cities with my Border Collies for 8 years and did not even have a yard. This is not impossible. You are perfectly capable of rectifying the situation if your husband will cooperate. If he won't, well, there's nothing we can do about that and I will not suggest that you give up your job, so in that case I woul agree the dogs should be rehomed. I hope it doesn't come to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack & Co. Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 She said electric fences did not work. Why? What kind? Are we talking invisible fencing or electrical wire fencing? I wondered this also, Liz. I've had success for seven years with Invisible Fence for 2 cats and a dog. I live on a busy road so it's imperative that the IF do its job. It's a great product but requires an extensive step-by-step training process that everyone must commit to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I think a number of people offered training and containment advice because they felt that the OP really would like to keep her dogs but without help, does not see how she can. Sometimes folks post about situations they can't handle and, with good advice, are often able to make progress so that they can keep their dogs and be happy in their situation. I surely hope the OP has been reading and considering all good advice, and that she will be able to work things out for the best, either being able to keep the dogs in an improved home situation or finding good homes or a rescue to take them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herdcentral Posted January 4, 2009 Report Share Posted January 4, 2009 I wondered this also, Liz. I've had success for seven years with Invisible Fence for 2 cats and a dog. I live on a busy road so it's imperative that the IF do its job. It's a great product but requires an extensive step-by-step training process that everyone must commit to. Where I live there are a lot of small properties and the majority if them use this type of fencing. It seems to work very well and most the dogs are kelpies, cattle dogs and BCs. I myself have lived in suburbia with 2 ACDS and a BC and only ever had one ACD that was an escape artist which I solved by burying the fencing about 6 inches down to stop her digging under. I also have dog doors and the dogs like being inside a lot of the time. I crate my youngsters and leave the older ACD girl free in the house when I am out. I make sure I take them on a long off leash walk everyday so they can burn energy. I carry treats with me or a favourite toy and practice lots of recalls. I also train them most days in agility and obedience. I like practising operant behaviour with a clicker and a box, jump, pole, plastic cone etc with them - it really gets them thinking and they seem to enjoy it and it can be done in a small area. The notion of allowing dogs to be running free all the time is risky to both the dog and other people and animals. Good luck and I am sure there is a solution so you can keep your dogs. I havnt got a solution for hubby, it seems to be a universal problem. My married friends are always frustrated by their husbands on the subject of training and containing the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepsa Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 A lot of people have some good ideas.... I used to live on a farm with my border collie; she never roamed off the property. She KNEW there was a line she couldn't cross. But the truth was I never had to train her at all; she's my velcro dog so she didn't like to leave the property without me and horses weren't her cup of tea. She would watch the neighbour horses run along our property line and never went into their fenced field...so I never had that problem. But I had a problem with her herding our pigs in the pig pen. She won't eat, go bathroom, etc. She had OCD over pigs. The way I solved that problem with her was taking her out with me all the time so she doesn't get too ingrained with the pigs; the min we get home and the car door opens; she darts off to find the pigs again. So I can somewhat understand....but I know I wasn't asked but I would suggest to make yourself more "attractive" than the animals that your dogs chases. It seems to me that they are bored?? Do they get any other simulation? How about enrolling them into flyball? Agility?? GL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Coming into this a bit late. But I have two 3 y/o BC's. No Fence. A SMALL yard and they get exercise everday because I MAKE the effort. Can you leash walk them a couple miles a day? Play ball with them on leash? Bike with them? (they sell bike attachments for dogs). Is dog day care an option? Can you fence in a smaller portion of your yard? Put up a run? Anything? If all this seems too much effort, then I agree with you, the dogs are better off rehomed. It all comes down to how bad you really want to keep them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronHorse Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 A couple rolls of ratite wire,a few bundles of T posts,rent a small ditchwitch for a day, a couple days of labor, I guarantee you can have a very nice enclosure. But from what info you have posted this sounds more like an unwilling participent then it is a containment issue. Is your Husband unable or unwilling to participate in your pack structure? If he is just opening a door and letting these dogs out and not taking an active role in their activities while your away for 10 plus hours then I would say your doomed to failure even with a good enclosure and probably should try to find these dogs a home where they can enjoy structured active lifes. Sounds like your neighbor is taking a more active part in the well being of your dogs then your Husband. If it were my livestock being harrassed,well lets just say after the second warning I would solve the problem myself. I am not attempting to be uncaring, I am just being realistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BustopherJones Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 In that light, I'd say that we can best achieve our goal of helping the dogs if we pad our advice with a bit of empathy. Nicely said. (And enough said...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted January 5, 2009 Report Share Posted January 5, 2009 Sorry I wasn't clear. I just meant to say that in her original post, Pat was looking for rehoming and not training advice. So it makes sense that she did not provide detailed info that would assist us in giving her training advice. Good point. The suggestions about ways she might be able to manage to keep the dogs were unsolicited, and while they were well worth giving, unsolicited advice is unlikely to be welcome unless phrased with forbearance and empathy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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