@Vickkers...or anyone else...

[ArchersMomma]

I was just reading another thread where you indicated that you have trained your dogs to use the treadmill!? Can you share that bit of training with me? Does anyone have any pros and cons with regards to this?

 

My husband was on the treadmill the other night and Archer ran in there and decided to try it out. lol! Didn't work out so good! However, he still doesn't seem afraid of it. I swear this dog is going to be fantastic at agility! He'll get on anything I ask him to, no worries at all.

 

Anyway....I digress. I am asking becauser I DETEST nasty weather...(who doesn't!?) and having to run Archer when it's pouring rain or in the middle of a week long blizzard at minus 38 degrees just is not going to be my thing.

 

Right now we average a solid 45 min. all out running/ball chasing about three to four times a week. The rest of the time he's chasing balls that I've thrown from the second floor to the first (open concept house), chasing and playing with the cat or playing out in our fenced back yard. He's SUCH a good dog and I don't want that to get messed up now that the crummy weather is here.

 

I am interested in learning more about this treadmilling for dogs and if it's even something I should even be remotely considering to make sure Archer gets all the exercise he needs! I am a working mom of a 6 year old. My husband is gone to work at 5 a.m. and does not have time to walk Archer in the morning and I am NOT a morning person. So far he's adapted pretty well to our lifestyle and is a happy, well adjusted "teenager". I would really like to keep him that way!

[MrSnappy]

I have what may be an unpopular opinion, but I think it's silly to run your dog on a treadmill. I mean, if you're not a morning person, and you don't like the weather where you live, why did you get a super active dog?

 

I don't exactly love getting up three hours before work, or getting soaked all cold winter long, nor do I enjoy the dog park in the dark ... but that's part and parcel of owning pet border collies. They need to get out, so out we go.

 

My dogs would find running on a treadmill tremendously dull. It would nothing for their brains at all, and they'd just be super fit and still bored silly. They don't even like running with me outside that much as it's pretty boring (for me too!) And your dog is really too young for that kind of repetitive aerobic activity anyway.

 

I dunno. If I was going to have to sit or stand there supervising my dog on a treadmill for half an hour, I may as well just go outside with him and give him something interesting to do.

 

To each their own methods, I suppose - I just think that if I wanted a dog I didn't have to walk outside for considerable periods, I would have gotten a bulldog or something instead.

 

RDM

[grinning.girl]

I agree... rain or shine we are out every day.

 

signed up for that the day I got my puppy

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I think my opinion pretty much echos RDM's, so I won't repeat it. Dianne and I also mentioned in the other post that keeping the dog mentally active helps considerably! Learning new/silly tricks in 3-5 minute spans through the day or getting interactive toys that make them think for their food.

[vanillalove]

I agree with RDM, you signed up for the crappy weather, early mornings and sometimes both when you got a Border Collie. Also, I not only find treadmills not mentally stimulating for any dog, but I also think it could be really dangerous if something were to go wrong. To me, it's so unnatural, that I just would never do it. And again, agreeing with RDM, if you're supervising the dog anyways to be on the treadmill, you might as well be supervising him outside where it's a lot more fun for them. Unless you're not supervising them and then I definitely disagree with the use of a treadmill for safety reasons.

 

To put it simply, don't get a Border Collie if you're going to want to take short cuts.

[ArchersMomma]

I had a border collie for thirteen years and he never suffered from my dislike for nasty weather. He was my soul-mate and lifeline and I loved him very much. I got another when he died because I love the breed and know that I can provide a loving, stable home that gives the dog what he needs. Just because I'm not a morning person and don't like inclement weather, doesn't make me a bad person to have a BC and sorry, but I'm not going to drag my six year old outside at 7 a.m. in the middle of a blizzard to walk the dog. Or any day for that matter. Mornings are for me and my son to get ready for our busy days and the dog has adapted....that's life and reality...he is my dog, not my child.

 

Making me feel like a horrible person for getting a BC in the first place because I choose to exercise and stimulate him in ways that are contrary to yours is neither appreciated or helpful. I asked an honest question and expected mature thought out answers...not an attack on my lifestyle or choice of family pet. I'm not on this board often because I choose to spend my time with Archer teaching tricks and exercising his mind as well as his body. Because I choose to do that inside the comfort of my home does not make me a bad "mother" and I resent that implication.

 

As I indicated in my original post, I wondered if treadmilling with a dog was something I should even be considering as I'd never even heard of it and I was skeptical about the merits of doing so.

 

So far, it seems from what I've read in some threads, walking on eggshells is a normal part of life in this place with some posters...wonder if I'll stay here? There seems to be so much to learn here but at what cost? Kind of sad really.

[vanillalove]

I don't think anyone attacked your lifestyle or your choices as to why you own a Border Collie, we were simply giving you exactly what you asked for: the pros and cons of treadmills.

 

Border Collies thrive on routine, and if your BC has adapted and is content with no morning walk, that's not only just acceptable, but it is ideal. That shows the time you put into training your dog to relax in the home and that playtime will be on your terms and thus, a trait of a good mother rather than the bad one you think we've assumed you as. We're not saying that by providing indoor fun is against some sort of Border Collie Ownership Code of Conduct, in fact I credit you for providing mental stimulation when you are unable to provide him with physical. That's the key for owning a Border Collie, not how many times you get outside. So, we've never implicated that you are a bad mother.

 

We were, however, implicating that there are people out there who choose to take shortcuts when caring for their animals and the treadmill could be seen as one of those shortcuts. We were not criticizing YOU, we were criticizing the general 'you'; the people who exercise their dogs on treadmills. So if you go back and read my post and read all the "you"s in it, simply think of them as the people who already run their dogs on treadmills. The kind of people who exchange a machine for real human contact and companionship. In my opinion, it isn't spending quality time with your (and I mean the general 'your') beloved pet, but an act because you "have" to, and exercising the dog becomes part of a chore. To me, if exercising a dog becomes chore-like, then that person should be opting for a less demanding breed. Would you not agree?

 

So, for a clearer response: No, I don't think you should look into 'treadmilling'. It seems that if you have found a routine that both you and Archer are happy with, then you don't need to change it. If he's healthy and happy and most of all, stable with the amount of gets outside as well as the amount of mental stimulation inside, then I think you have found a great balance. I will repeat what I said before anyways, and say that if you would be supervising him anyways on the treadmill, you might as well go outside, you know? And that leads me to the point where I would definitely not condone unsupervised treadmill runs. Either way, I think there are many safety issues that could arise. Above all, Archer would probably rather just lay around with you at home than be running on some scary machine, no? There are owners who just let their dogs run in the backyard to "exercise" themselves, I find that to be comparable to the treadmill idea, because it doesn't do anything for the dog. Teaching silly tricks DOES do things for the dog and on a blustery winter day, it's a great way to keep your dog happy and healthy.

 

To sum it up I don't think your situation "needs" a treadmill, and if there was someone who really thought that they did NEED one for their dog, then THAT is an implication of someone who shouldn't be the owner of a breed so demanding.

[mbc1963]

Archer's Mom... stick around. There are lots of good lessons in between the occasional ruffled feathers. People are bluntly honest, that's a fact. But at least you know they'll tell you what they really think.

 

My first reaction to treadmilling was the same as others': my dog likes our walks not so much for the physical exercise, but for the mental stimulation of sniffing and marking, sniffing and marking. He honestly doesn't really care (being 5) whether he's on the leash, so if it's dark I just take him around my neighborhood. I just have to walk more pokily, because the sniffing is the whole POINT, in his mind. I myself can't stay on a treadmill or other exercise machine more than 20 minutes. It's too tedious. Ugh!

 

I think that having kids, you probably offer your dog something I certainly can't: possible side entertainment by very active humans. That's a good thing! Plus, at some point in the next few years, your son will be old enough to take the dog out for a walk on his own, and visiting dogless friends will want to play with Archer.

 

For now, is there any way your hubby could take him on a very brief walk in the a.m. - just to sniff and pee for 10 minutes - and then maybe try to make up for it later in the day? Sunlight makes a big difference in how awful the weather feels.

 

I had just one bad "blizzard" year with my dog (I remember walking him while snow built up to a depth of an inch or so on his back!)... and luckily have been able to find some time in most days when the weather wasn't absolutely unbearable. Though I will admit, those -20 days in February push the envelope. The happy flip side is that deep snow tires dogs out, because they have to leap over it. My dog is MUCH more playful in snow - he loves to wrestle in it. Any chance you've got neighbors whose dogs could come over and play in the snow with yours? (Added advantage: delicious, snow-clean dogs.)

 

Mary

[Journey]

OK, so I have a treadmill and I used it for the dogs. Yes, when the weather is too nasty, like 102 degrees. They need some sort of excise just to maintain. Besides, it's too hot to do anything with the sheep, yet the dogs still have to stay in condition. Now, we don't dawdle on it - I keep it at an incline, with them on it for about 30 minutes at a strong hard trot. I've yet to have one that can't be taught how to run in it.

 

Karen

[Mark Billadeau]

We got a treadmill for our dogs and are in the process of getting them used to using it. It is strictly for increasing endurance of our working dogs. There is no need for a pet to get a tredmill workout. Yes, it is a mindless activity; imho slightly more mindless than fetch.

 

The fastest/best way to wearout a Border Collie is to work their mind not their body.

 

Mark

[Kenbo]

So far, it seems from what I've read in some threads, walking on eggshells is a normal part of life in this place with some posters...wonder if I'll stay here? There seems to be so much to learn here but at what cost? Kind of sad really.

 

 

I agree with you, I don't post much anymore because of that very reason. I usually don't even sign on. I'ts always the same people that if you don't agree you're on their list. I've learned to do what I want and don't ask any questions. You can't ask a question without the "experts" and "know it all" circling the wagons and making you feel stupid, and yes it is sad. Ken

[Root Beer]

I had a border collie for thirteen years and he never suffered from my dislike for nasty weather.

 

None of my dogs do, either.

 

Granted, I have a fenced yard and don't need to go out in nasty weather to potty my dogs. If I did, obviously I would go out in all weather with them. But that's not our setup and I am deeply grateful for it.

 

We don't do morning walks. I never have and I don't intend to. We do indoor games and training every morning and my dogs are quite happy with it. Each dog gets a five minute training session and then they have the day to "sleep" on it. That's the routine and it works for us.

 

In the afternoon we have outdoor play, running, and exercise if the weather is remotely decent. If not, again, we do indoor exercise and it works for us. My dogs certainly get enough physical exercise. They are in great shape and they are quite content.

 

We have a treadmill and I have put Dean and Speedy on it every now and then. Dean LOVES it. This winter I might start to let him use it a few times a week. If he doesn't find it "mindless", then who am I to say it is?

 

Making me feel like a horrible person for getting a BC in the first place because I choose to exercise and stimulate him in ways that are contrary to yours is neither appreciated or helpful. I asked an honest question and expected mature thought out answers...not an attack on my lifestyle or choice of family pet. I'm not on this board often because I choose to spend my time with Archer teaching tricks and exercising his mind as well as his body. Because I choose to do that inside the comfort of my home does not make me a bad "mother" and I resent that implication.

 

Not everybody here shares the same opinion on the matter as those expressed above. I don't think there is anything wrong with training a dog to use a treadmill if it is done safely and the dog is not over-exercised. I do have a bit of a concern with the effect of the repetitive motion on the dog's joints over time, so I probably would not put a dog on a treadmill more than two or three times a week and I would be sure to change up activities to make sure that the dog has a chance to exercise on different surfaces.

 

There are people here who think that clickers are evil, using treats to train is illusory, and dancing with your dog is demeaning. I do all of those things and enjoy them highly, as do my dogs. I don't grant anyone else the right to determine what works for me and my dogs even while I recognize that opinions on those matters are subjective and that if someone else doesn't like it, that's their right as much as it is my right to enjoy them.

 

So, if you want to treadmill with your dog, or you don't do long morning walks outside in all kinds of weather, it's not really for anyone other than you to say whether it is really right for you and your dog.

 

As I indicated in my original post, I wondered if treadmilling with a dog was something I should even be considering as I'd never even heard of it and I was skeptical about the merits of doing so.

 

I have heard of it. It's something I am interested in looking into myself, but haven't really done so yet.

 

As I said above, Dean enjoys the treadmill, so I might look into it this winter. But I would limit his use of it to two or three times a week to avoid potential repetitive stress on his joints.

 

So far, it seems from what I've read in some threads, walking on eggshells is a normal part of life in this place with some posters...wonder if I'll stay here?

 

I considered this same question years ago and decided to stay. I don't regret it. I've learned a great deal, not only from reading posts, but by taking part in debate and discussions where the many of the opinions are different from my own. That's not for everyone - I think you have to enjoy that sort of thing to some degree - but I've found that I made a good decision by sticking around.

 

I like it here a lot and I like most of the people here, even when I get the impression that many think I'm from another planet or something. :D

[2 Devils]

I also use a treadmill for my dogs at times. My acd likes the treadmill and it was great for rehab after TPLO surgery (twice). My poodle likes the treadmill because he gets cheese for staying on it. My other 2 dogs are still learning to get used to it.

 

There is nothing wrong with using a treadmill but plan on doing something that involves the mind before or after the treadmill so you work the brain too.

 

I started off with my dogs on leash and the setting at slow as possible and gave them a reward for getting on it. I slowly inceased the time and speed and raised the incline. Some dogs take a lot longer to get them to stay in the treadmill and some a quick studies.

 

I had a border collie mix that absolutey loved the treadmill. The first time she got on the treadmill was when I was on it working out which was rare. She got on and strated trotting beside me. Next thing I know she pushed me off the treadmill and she continued on it until I made her quit. After that it became apparent that if we wanted on the treadmill we had to lock her up or she was down there trying to force you off so she could be on it.

 

Folks here are just adamant about their likes and dislikes and many are not afraid to pist it that way. Don't take offense... just shrug it off. It is just the internet afterall.

[Lewie'sMom]

Archer'sMomma, I sure hope you choose to stay. I don't think anyone meant anything as a personal attack.

 

I'm not an expert on BCs, I just have one as my furkid. I don't have sheep or any animals for Lewie to herd, we don't do agility (at least we haven't tried it yet) or any of the hundred things a BC is well-know for. He's my pet, my companion, my buddy, my charge and my clown. I hate inclemant weather, too, and we don't always go out in it even though he doesn't seem to mind getting wet/cold. But, just like you indicated, there are lots of things you can do in the house to stimulate his mind on the carppy weather days. I don't think missing a walk/romp now and then is going to do any BC any harm.

 

My own opinion about the treadmill for occasional use is if you want to give it a shot, go for it. Heck, I've even thought about putting Lewie on it but decided that since I get bored on it he probably would too, once it became routine. That being said, if you don't use if as a replacement for the normal exercise and fun you have together, I can't imagine why it would be a bad thing. It would even give him some mental stimulation while he's learning what you want him to do. Archer doesn't know that treadmills are boring, at least not yet.

 

There are so many knowledgeable, experienced BC owners on this board, and while I may not always agree with everything that's posted, I have great respect for them. Ultimately, you know what works best for your family and situations so you have to make the decision.

 

Good luck and best regards.

[Shetlander]

As I indicated in my original post, I wondered if treadmilling with a dog was something I should even be considering as I'd never even heard of it and I was skeptical about the merits of doing so.

 

I only know one person who uses a treadmill as part of her dogs' exercise routine. It seemed to work for her and at least one of the dogs seemed to love it. I've also noticed that Cesar Milan often recommends using one, but he is controversial for many people. I think the point made about needing to supervise the treadmill to avoid possible injuries is a good one, so time spent will still be the same though as you have said, you won't be out in nasty weather. I would want to look into risks of possible repetitive use injuries as far as how long and how often to use a treadmill, if that was something I opted to do. By the way, be careful with Archer running up and down between floors too much. I've heard of some bad injuries on stairs -- there is always some risk, it seems!

 

I'm not a morning person either so as my pups mature into adults, I do less and less with them before work. After work, we always have a good play session in the yard at least. Quinn gets a minimum of one extended game of fetch a day. The only things likely to interfere are hot weather and my being horribly sick (because otherwise with typical BC owner logic, I always figure how much energy does it really take to bundle up and throw some balls with a Chuck-It for my dog? I can even do that sitting down. ). I am very fortunate to have a fenced in yard. I only have 1/4 acre of land and probably the yard is 1/3 of that, but it is ample to give Quinn the opportunity he needs to run full out every day. Of course, the lawn is a wreck but I consider the backyard is for my dogs.

 

If you didn't have a 6 year old, I'd be inclined to tell you to suck it up and get outside everyday rain, snow or shine. But between being a mom and having a full time job, that is hard for you I understand. I do think it is important for a BC to be able to fully exercise his mind and his body every day, especially when he is young and still learning an off switch (to judge by your post "A Day In the Life.."). Remember that despite what Archer tells you, he does not need non-stop entertainment though he does need a reasonable outlet for his energy. I think we can each usually come up with a good way to do this for our individual living situations.

 

Please stick around. There is a ton to learn here though you will not agree with every opinion. Some people would say that since I work full time, don't have stock for Quinn to work and lately don't even do performance sports that I shouldn't have a Border Collie. Some would hate what I feed him or that he was raised with crating. That's ok for them to have those opinions. Quinn seems plenty happy and well-adjusted to me and that is what counts in my book.

 

Good luck finding the solution that works for your family and dog. I'll let Quinn have the final word that you consider overcoming your dislike of inclement weather and getting in as many outside romps as possible, regardless of the conditions:

 

[bc4ever]

I am a working mom of a 6 year old. My husband is gone to work at 5 a.m. and does not have time to walk Archer in the morning and I am NOT a morning person. So far he's adapted pretty well to our lifestyle and is a happy, well adjusted "teenager". I would really like to keep him that way!

 

As the working mom of a six year old, I bet you've had a lot of advice over the years about how to raise him/her. And some of it you've probably tried and found worked, and some of it you've just politely disregarded. What if someone had told you that if you're not a morning person you shouldn't even consider having a baby? And I'll bet your six year old has adapted pretty well to your lifestyle too. Everyone has their opinion, and that's what you originally asked for, and got. Opinions. Every dog is different as is every child. It's up to you to know what works in your situation. Don't leave. Sit. Stay.

[bsms99]

I felt a lot of sympathy when I first read your post, and am not surprised by the replies. Two issues stood out: treadmills and what I'll call 'Border Collie Elitism'.

 

Treadmills: I first heard the idea about 2 weeks ago, and my initial reaction was "Horrible!" I run about 20 miles / week, and I HATE treadmills. But then I thought about the dogs I've owned, and decided it was probably dog dependent. In honesty, the BC we owned would probably have loved it, IF the treadmill was in the center of a room full of family (so we could admire her fine running) or IF my wife or I sat next to the treadmill talking to her while she ran. My current dog, a pound mutt, would do what he often does - stare at me in a way that clearly says, "I understand WHAT you want me to do, but not WHY! Tell me again just WHY it benefits me to sit / roll over / etc...and no, I don't like treats and I find it embarrassing when humans jump up and down and act excited."

 

If you already have a treadmill or know someone who could loan you one, you might give it a try. Treadmills cost a pretty penny, and I wouldn't buy one on the assumption a dog will love it.

 

Border Collie Elitism: I spent a few years living with a roommate who had an Aussie. I owned a BC mix for close to 15 years, and owned a purebred BC for 12. She died 5 years ago. We recently started looking for a second dog (would like to work up to 3 total), and so I started looking for a Border Collie.

 

First problem: BCs are supposed to be bred for herding, but most of the BC 'breeders' seem to breed for anything BUT herding. So the first challenge was finding a reputable BC breeder.

 

Second problem: Convincing someone to SELL me a BC. I spent a fair bit of time explaining, again and again, that I have owned a BC before. When I got my previous BC, I simply asked a local vet. He told me a farmer nearby had pups, and they were good farm dogs that could herd or play with kids equally well. I called him, he said he had a couple left, I drove over and met him & the dogs and bought a puppy. He didn't grill me on my plans for herding, or suggest BCs would destroy everything in sight - he seemed to figure a person who had owned dogs all his life and currently had a happy 100 lb dog and kids would probably muddle it out. He was right, and she was a great dog.

 

Frankly, I think a lot of this 'BCs are terrors to own' is either a lot of cr@p, the result of pee-poor breeding or an owner that shouldn't own ANY dog. Does anyone really believe a working farm/ranch would tolerate a dog 'without an off switch'? I've met lots of ranch BCs - most are suspicious of strangers, but none of them run around out of control! If they did, they would be shot.

 

I've met out of control GSDs. I've met one vicious Golden Retriever, and a number of poodles that I would have put down immediately. Once, when jogging, I had a little Chihuahua-like dog run 50 yards to intercept me and bite my ankle. I kicked the thing across the street, and the owner started shouting bloody murder - after HER dog bit ME!

 

Almost ANY puppy will chew things - what a shock! Bored dogs dig and destroy things - what a shock! My current pound mutt is on his third family - he was written up as not potty trained (he was), a digger (only when hunting) and a runner (the previous owner beat the hell out of him when he got loose and came back, so what do you expect?) None of that is BC-specific.

 

I understand breeders who breed for herding may want to make sure their puppy doesn't end up chained in a yard, or crated 18 hours/day. However, I also looked at rescue. We're still considering it - may put it on hold for a while - but I can't say that process has been much fun either. "How many hours/day will you exercise the dog, and will you do dog sports with him?" Well, lets see...the foster home has him crated 18 hours/day with a half dozen dogs. Maybe a 50 year old man who has owned dogs all his life and who loves running and hiking MIGHT be better than where the dog is now? And what is this 'dog sport' nonsense? It is as though the only suitable exercise for a dog is weaving between poles, or playing flyball. Just running in the desert, throwing frisbees/balls, playing with other dogs...that isn't suitable exercise, only dogsports.

 

I actually would like to give dogsports a try, but I don't appreciate the assumption that no other home provides suitable exercise for a BC. And I get a bit tired of the attitude that BCs aren't dogs. Yes, they are smart. Smart dogs learn the rules and abide by them...that's one of the things that defines smart. Psycho dogs do not, but BCs are not psycho - not unless they are made that way by people.

 

Finally - long rant - a reputable breeder has agreed to sell us a male Border Collie puppy. It looks right now like I'll travel over a thousand miles to get him...but that isn't much for a dog you plan to own for 12-15 years. With a puppy approaching, we probably will put rescue on hold. That would depend on the individual dog and on the rescue organization. Right now, rescue isn't looking promising. But I am tired of the belief that BCs are too freaky for normal families to own and enjoy!

 

Sorry for the long rant. Good luck with the treadmill, if you go that route. Dogs are individuals, and I'm sure it works for some. I fully sympathize with your frustration that people believe you have to walk BCs 3-4 times a day in all weather. When the weather sucked, she got cabin fever like the rest of us. Like the rest of us, she survived it. She loved long walks/runs, but she also adored herding kids and racing around the house with the other dog. She also ate a hole the size of a dinner plate in the center of a hand-made wool carpet, but no dog is completely perfect...

[ArchersMomma]

Ok..perhaps I had a PMS moment when I replied but I do find that opinions are somewhat...extreme? at times and it's hard not to get prickly.

 

Thank you all for your honest replies and explaining your thoughts in a non-offensive way. I think that, for now at least, I will abstain from introducing a treadmill to Archer. I can see the benefits of doing so for a working or sport dog when an owners life is too busy or hectic to allow for regular outdoor running and on a limited basis. My issue here is that there are only two dog parks and honestly, I'm really not very comfortable taking Archer to them. Too many irresponsible dog owners for my liking, not to mention disease. Also, there was someone poisoning the drinking water at a dog park in Toronto a while back and a couple dogs died. That just freaked me right out about dog parks.

 

So my leash free options are extremely limited. I could buy one of those extenda leashes but Archer is so fast the thing would have to be a 100 yards to avoid him hitting the end of it and either doing a back flip or pulling me over! For now I've been taking him to a secluded soccer field and doing ball throws. He has yet to be distracted by other dogs or people, even by kids cruising on their bikes...but it still makes me nervous. I suppose that if and until we decide to do agility with him, we will continue. I do have a fenced back yard that he can play in and has at least a 15 minute play session outside every morning before work and another 15 inside.

 

So I guess this means I'll stick around (or you're stuck with me? )...however maybe a word of advice to all you really knowledgeable people here from a newbie? I'm here to talk to you! I'm here to meet you! I'm here to get to know you and learn from you as people. If I wanted to read your archives then I would simply just do that and not join a discussion forum. Be kind to us newcomers...help us learn to be good mommies and daddy's to our fur-babies in a positive way and maybe some of you rescue people will one day go out of business! ( LOL! Okay..one can dream. )The knowledge that you all have is an incredible gift that you can share with others and help to provide the happy homes that BCs deserve. Try to remember that when yet another newbie asks the same question that's been asked here again and again...you were new once too.

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

So, I am sorry you're upset. I definately did not mean to come off that way, BUT this is the internet and it's incredibly hard to take someone's tone of voice via their typing.

 

I think that treadmilling a dog has it's plus points if your dog is a working dog or needs to be in incredible condition, like someone else mentioned, to use it when the weather is really bad and they can't work, yes, the dog needs to stay in shape, or to rehab from an injury. It was mentioned to me not long ago that if I wanted to get into agility the best way to get Daisy in shape for the endurance part of it would be to run hills with her carrying a pack with weights in it. I would imagine a sports dog or working dog is going to need some sort of conditioning when they aren't working to keep in shape. But, if your dog has come this far as a pet and needs a simple run a couple of times a week, I wouldn't invest the money. If he doesn't get morning walks now, why would that need to change? We don't take morning walks, we play indoors for a while and have a quick learning session. (literally 3 minutes) Then she builds a fort on my bed and stays there for the day. Not a care in the world. It even depends on her mood in the evening if we go for a walk at night. If she's mellow, then we just work on her training a couple of times and play a really good game of fetch, if she's wound up, then it's a nice long walk with some outstide training. That is my dog and what she likes to do, what you do with your dog ultimately depends on how much energy he needs to burn. If it comes down to purchasing a treadmill that the dog may not like, why wouldn't you just pay a dog walker to come over 3 times a week, or send him to doggie day care a couple times a week....?

[MrSnappy]

I agree with you, I don't post much anymore because of that very reason. I usually don't even sign on. I'ts always the same people that if you don't agree you're on their list. I've learned to do what I want and don't ask any questions. You can't ask a question without the "experts" and "know it all" circling the wagons and making you feel stupid, and yes it is sad. Ken

 

:eyeroll:

 

Where is this magic fantasy land you people live in where no one EVER disagrees with you, especially when you ask for opinions? Can you go back there to do your whining about how mean these boards are instead of moaning about it here in the midst of people's threads?

 

I think putting a dog on a treadmill in lieu of exercising him is kind of silly - a couple people in this thread disagree with that idea, but you don't see me sobbing about being disagreed with.

 

Also, can I see this alleged list? I don't get online too much these days and I want to make sure I don't miss out on this week's target.

 

/sarcasm.

 

When I run with my dogs, they come home and get the zoomies around the house and throw toys at me - running doesn't make them tired, it's just conditioning as Mark points out. Comparatively, they are a lot more tired after an hour at the dog park than an hour of running with me. So I think in that regard, a treadmill isn't a great idea. I can see maybe using it if there are no real alternatives, like in incredibly terrible or extreme weather, but I don't think it'd be useful for very long in terms of satisfying the dog.

 

As for substituting it for real exercise just because someone doesn't "like" going out in the cold or rain or dark - my opinion on that is unchanged. I don't know too many people who do "like" to do those things either, which includes me, but I reiterate that IMO it's part of owning a BC. To me owning a BC but trying to find ways to avoid taking it outside is much like wanting a BC without the drive of the breed ... if you don't want the whole package, why get one at all?

 

That's my opinion. It may or may not be endorsed by other wagon circlers.

 

 

RDM

[Rave]

Archersmom, there's no reason NOT to teach your dog the treadmill if you want to! Everyone here has their opinion, and at times don't care if they're rude about sharing it, which unfortunately happens more than need be. Do what YOU want for YOUR dog. I've used a treadmill before due to extreme heat or snow or darkness when an on-leash walk just wouldn't cut it or when I was injured. Plenty of reasons to use a treadmill for ANY type of dog. But you don't really need a reason. Hell if you were just lazy that day or didn't have a lot of time would be a good reason too. Let's face it, for working professionals, sometimes life w/o the dogs gets in the way with the fun we want to have with them... especially when there's only a few hours of daylight a day and running off leash in the dark isn't safe. So that said, do what the hell you want and take all advice here with a grain of salt.

 

So to teach it, get a stool or something to sit on beside the treadmill. It's helpful if the treadmill is pushed up against a wall to create a barrier on one side, with you as a barrier on the other. Get a leash and a lot of treats, even a clicker if your dog is so inclined. Start out sloooooooooooooowwwwwwwww at a very slow setting until he is walking comfortably and gradually increase the speed/incline over several days to you get to a nice working trot. If using it for conditioning, you want to work up to a solid 20 minutes. 20 min is the magic number for conditioning (per my rehab/conditioning vet).

 

BC's LOVE to learn new things and this is just another "trick" for them to learn. My girls go crazy when they're about to get on there - have to put all up while I'm working with one at a time. It's great conditioning for flyball, or any other activity that requires endurance. Treadmills can be a great supplement to outdoor exercise as well.

 

Good luck with it!!

[ArchersMomma]

for what it's worth...I already have an expensive treadmill....which, like most home exercise equipment, has been gathering dust. I thought I might try and get some use out of it, IF it was feasible for Archer, who seemed to show some interest in it.

 

But as some of you so eloquently put it, if I decide to do it then I guess that's my own business and I'll do so regardless of what people here may think (albeit in a responsible manner that is beneficial and not harmful to my furbaby). I just may avoid sharing the experience here for fear of being run over by one of those wagons!

[Shetlander]

But I am tired of the belief that BCs are too freaky for normal families to own and enjoy!

 

That "not for most owners" card gets played a lot and at times overstated, but I think the emphasis is that Border Collies are not the right dog for the "casual" or "average" owner. They do require more commitment by and large than the average dog. I think one reason that Rescues and breeders look at sports owners with appreciation is that the average sports owner is going to be a lot more serious and knowledgeable about training, exercise and care than the average pet owner. That doesn't mean there aren't outstanding pet owners or horrible sports owners, but in general sports people are less "causal" in ownership.

 

I try not to be snobby, but the fact is the average dog owner does little to no training beyond housebreaking and some don't even do much of a job at that. Recently I was attempting to show off to a friend how fast my Lhasa came on a recall. My point was that for a fire hydrant of a dog, he really stepped on the gas to get to me. My friend's comment was "How do you get him to come when you call? My dogs only come if I have food in my hand." She's known me since I was 9. Knows what a loon I am for dogs. I thought she would have noticed over the past 35+ years that all my dogs have been obedience trained with a number have been shown in obedience and/or agility but on that day, my Lhasa coming when I called was a big deal.

 

A home where the owner doesn't know how to train consistently and fairly -- or at all, doesn't understand a Border Collie needs to be exercised or offered some mental challenge, or in reality just wants a couch potato is generally going to be the wrong home for this breed. I think all dogs deserve a committed owner who makes the dog truly a part of their life but some dogs can get by better than others in less than ideal situations. I don't think that is the case for the average Border Collie.

[ArchersMomma]

A home where the owner doesn't know how to train consistently and fairly -- or at all, doesn't understand a Border Collie needs to be exercised or offered some mental challenge, or in reality just wants a couch potato is generally going to be the wrong home for this breed. I think all dogs deserve a committed owner who makes the dog truly a part of their life but some dogs can get by better than others in less than ideal situations. I don't think that is the case for the average Border Collie.

 

JUST IMAGINE tho if those people could come here and find the information they need to provide that home without feeling like they're being attacked. Maybe it would help that couch potatoe get OFF the couch and get moving!

 

I know you're not here to counsel humans on how to care for their pets, but if the advice and information that you have to offer helps even one dog stay out of rescue and the only cost was the biting of a tongue or perhaps climbing down from ones own pedestal, then wouldn't that be worth it?? For the sake fo the animal if for no other reason? There are always going to be stupid people who won't learn but if someone takes the time to come here and post, then that shows me a willingness to be taught. Perhaps it is incumbent upon those with the knowledge to be certain that their message doesn't get lost in the middle of a boast about how vast that knowledge is?

 

I'm all for a good debate and see the value in it. But perhaps some tempering might encourage others to stick around long enough to actually learn from your wisdom instead of being frightened off by it the number of posts you have and cruel forthrightness.

[Shetlander]

I'm all for a good debate and see the value in it. But perhaps some tempering might encourage others to stick around long enough to actually learn from your wisdom instead of being frightened off by it the number of posts you have and cruel forthrightness.

 

I don't think I said anything cruel or even rude (in this thread at least ). I do encourage you to stick around and feel free to jump in on these conversations and gently encourage good ownership. I try to do my best in that regard though I think you are much more optimistic about human nature than I am.