Split from the Gallery thread

[Guest ewesherdme]

Originally posted by Pipedream Farm:

There are several IP Address Lookup websites. One of those yielded for the location/owner of this IP address:

 

Your IP Address: 195.93.21.33

Brighton, UNITED KINGDOM

 

another website yielded:

IP Location: United Kingdom - England - London - AOL Uk

 

Mark

All is not as straight forward as it appears, Dynamics IP addresses such as AOL change frequently, they have a pool of numbers that other AOL users will at some time or another will use but never at the same time. Here is an explanation below. Jodi and Mark have got it wrong.

 

An IP address is a number composed of four parts (called octets) that is used to identify your computer on the internet. (The format is 1.1.1.1 -- four octets comprise one address.)

There are two types of IP addresses that a computer can have -- static and dynamic. Your Internet Service Provider (ISP) determines which type you have, but in general, residential accounts have dynamic IP addresses and business accounts have static IP addresses.

If you have a static IP address, your IP address does not change and is used as a consistent identifier for your computer by other computers on the internet.

 

 

If you have a dynamic IP address, then when your computer connects to the internet, you will get a randomly assigned IP address from a pool of IP addresses available from your ISP, and the IP address assigned to you will be different every time you connect.

[Howdyjabo]

"What if there is a litter of BC pups bred by a farmer (who uses his dogs on the farm, and trials), and all are sold. One of these puppies is purchased by a person who deigns to show the puppy in AKC conformation. The dog becomes a show champion. Is this a Barbie Collie too? Is it what it does, or what it is bred for?"

 

Not that I think that is likely--

 

BIMM--That dog is a Border Collie-- breed it(based on looks again) and they are now working on producing a line of "Barbie collies" .

They choose to breed it specifically geared to create another breed standard- why shouldn't it have a new name???

 

You'all are trying to get this way too specific-- you'll have to wait for the dust to settle and everyone falls on one side of the fence or the other. Thats why we want the breed split to happen. So everyone knows what IS a Border Collie and whats not anymore.

 

Heres the other side of the coin. Most breeders who are selectively breeding to change or create the standards of a breed WANT to deferentiate their accomplishements with calling it something else.

Thats how ALL breeds were created in the first place.

 

Why don't the people breeding for "looks" or "more suitable as general pets" or "sports" want to acknowledge their accomplishments?

 

Again-- Pick a name out that you concider suitable and we'll all use it.

But either officially or unofficially they are different and they will be referered to differently by those that see the difference.

[Kyrasmom]

Eileen, I'm not ignoring anything, In fact, I pretty much agree with KillerH's distinction of the breed seperation. But you can't blame people for being confused (and hurt) when in the space of two posts, one saying their (my) dog is a Border Collie and one saying it is not.

 

In the time I've been on this message board I've learned a lot, I've changed some of my perceptions and kept others. I do think that in general, you as a community, do more to alienate under the guise of being straight-forward or honest, then you do to educate. And that is unfortunate when in some cases, a message board of passionate people, can make a difference in the next choice that a new person will make.

 

What everyone else calls my dogs makes no difference to me personally as I think it says more about them then it does about my dogs. It's people driven, not dog driven but it's the people that can make changes in how they decide/think/act.

 

I have a dog who's mostly Pit Bull, he's the least prey driven dog I've ever seen, is ruled by my 35lbs BC, but he's still mostly Pit.

[Jodi]

Originally posted by Sue R:

After all, would we "put up and shut up" if it became common usage to call the working-bred Border Collie the "Crippled Piece of C***" Collie, as some kennel club folks seem to view them?

If it will delineate the dogs I own from the "GRIT" ("Golden Retrievers in Tuxedos")version, I'm fine with it.

 

Jodi

[Sue R]

Originally posted by ewesherdme:

If you have a dynamic IP address, then when your computer connects to the internet, you will get a randomly assigned IP address from a pool of IP addresses available from your ISP, and the IP address assigned to you will be different every time you connect.

So, is this brand new member saying that it's simply coincidence that his/her IP address listed on this post, is that exact same one as Cathy's and "George's"? Even though, "..the IP address assigned to you will be different every time you connect"?

 

It appears that ewesherdme, Cathy, and George must all be "connected" together. In spite of the "fact" ("George" likes that word according to his post) that George is in "Yorkshire" and Cathy is near London (where the IP address was located) and who knows where ewesherdme is located. Amazing!

 

I needed a good laugh today, and I've gotten one with this!

[Pipedream Farm]

Originally posted by ewesherdme:

If you have a dynamic IP address, then when your computer connects to the internet, you will get a randomly assigned IP address from a pool of IP addresses available from your ISP, and the IP address assigned to you will be different every time you connect.

Really? What a coencidence that you three all got the same IP address.

What are the odds on that?

 

Mark

[SoloRiver]

That was the case for the N-word, and many other derogatory words in years not far gone by and in many people's minds, and people didn't have to get used to it. I think our Border Collie community here should be much more "advanced" than that outdated approach.

 

Again, there is simply no comparison here, and I find it extremely, inordinately offensive to compare the "Barbie Collie" label to racial epithets that humans use to describe other humans. The context is not even a little bit similar, nor the consequences.

 

Dogs are not people. People are not dogs. Preferring one type or breed of dog over another is NOT NOT NOT NOT even close to being something like racism so please, people, please get a grip. We all love our dogs here, but the Border Collie wars have nothing to do with world peace, equality, or man's inhumanity to man so PLEASE, just stop. I am begging you.

[Jodi]

Cathy,

 

Get a life.

 

Jodi

[kelpiegirl]

My question still remains:

If a farmer bred his working BC's (and they DID work) and sold his puppies, and a pup ended up being shown in conformation, is this a Border Collie, or a Barbie Collie. No, not if this dog was bred and his progeny, rather, what is HE, on any given day? He was BRED to work, but is not working.

Julie

[Jodi]

Just copied this from the list of newest members.

 

Hollins Farm (Member # 5728)

junior member

Registered: 03-03-2006

Farmer Swaledale, Yorkshire

 

EweHerdMe (Member # 5729)

junior member

Registered: 03-03-2006

 

ewesherdme (Member # 5730)

Member

Registered: 03-03-2006

 

It's funny that a new member called "EweHerdMe" and one called "ewesherdme" both show up on the same day ... right after someone from Swaledale, (the very name "George" mentioned in this thread).

 

Are you done yet, Cathy? It's truly pathetic.

 

Jodi

[Howdyjabo]

I answered you what I thought Julie point blank -

 

heres the quote

 

"BIMM--That dog is a Border Collie"

 

And just why am I getting frustrated ????????

Try answering questions straight foreward then being told we haven't answered them--over and over and over.

[kelpiegirl]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is "BIMM"?

Julie

[Eileen Stein]

And you know what? This will amaze you -- Hollins Farm, EweHerdMe and ewesherdme all registered from the same IP number! The same one BlackandWhite and HerdnDogs happened to post every one of their posts from!

 

Is there still a Ripley's Believe It or Not? How do we contact them?

[Sue R]

Melanie - I often admire your articulate and helpful posts, and I surely am not comfortable with being the source of "extreme, inordinate" offense to you.

 

What's wrong with a little compassion on the local level? Isn't that the first step on the way to world peace, equality, and humanity?

 

I shall just bow out of this discussion before I do any more damage.

[Howdyjabo]

And heres some other frustrations-- give useful options and they are not even concidered.

 

Make use of USBCC to accomplish your worthy goals-- nothing

 

Don't like what we are calling them--- make a new name and we'll quit.-- nothing

 

Go ahead poke the bear a few more times

[Howdyjabo]

Don't Sue-- your comment made a dent in me.

 

But if they aren't going to go to any effort to come up with their own name that suits them I don't see why I should come up for one for them.

[Howdyjabo]

Does it really matter--- how about that apology

[SoloRiver]

Sue,

 

I'm not offended by you. There is nothing personal about this. I am offended by the idea that preferences for one type of dog or another are anything like racism. They simply aren't.

 

It would be like saying to someone who lost a child, "I know how you feel. I had a dog that died once."

 

We all love our dogs and most of us probably consider them family. I don't have children, and I know the pain of losing a well-loved dog. But I would never, NEVER NEVER say something like this to someone who lost a child, because it is NOT comparable, and I would anticipate that it would be received poorly, and I would not blame the person for receiving my comment poorly.

 

Equating "Barbie Collie" with a racial epithet is analogous and just as problematic. No one will lose a job, be lynched, be forced to ride in the back of the bus, be refused service in a retail establishment, etc. because some of us feel that conformation-bred dogs are not really Border Collies.

 

Dogs are not people. People are not dogs.

 

So don't leave, but please understand where I'm coming from.

[Howdyjabo]

Keep in mind Sue-- that "I" am offended when dogs purposely bred to another standard - are still claimed to be the same as ours-- by calling them the same name.They quit making that claim and I am not offended anymore.

They come up with their own name(official or unofficial) and I would gladly use it and there would be no insult- real or percievable-because THEY choose to pick it- and that I can respect.

 

Again

 

"But either officially or unofficially they are different and they will be referered to differently by those that see the difference."

 

Also

If theres a split personality going on I vote for George to stay and the rest to leave

 

George was at least semi rational and straight foreward with his beliefs.

[Eileen Stein]

Sorry, they've all been 86'd. And so will any new incarnations.

[Guest blessedmom]

Julie,

I am sorry I was rushing thru the posts and Assumed that you lumped in red, sorry bout that. My bad I now understand what you are saying about "colored" dogs.

[Bumper]

I don't read here often and don't post anymore, but I agree with Sue-

 

" What's wrong with a little compassion on the local level?"

 

The class I teach has two conformation bred border collies in it at the moment. I refer people to this board and the USBCC website for information and to learn about the working bred border collie. They are offended to the reference "Barbie collie". ( they do take it personally)- to them that means airhead, brainless whatever. I don't agree with the breedings, but the fact is, they are here and are wonderful dogs, they are adored by their owners. So by making snide remarks about their dogs that they love really DOES hurt, and it is personal.

 

How can you educate when they're put down even before they begin to learn?

 

If you really want to educate people on the working border collie and have them try to understand, I think a little less name calling is a better way, I think people will stick around more and learn.

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by Eileen Stein:

"Barbie Collie" is just an accepted term now, and I have to say, in the nicest possible way, that I think you're just going to have to get used to it. You can be upset about it if you want, but you can't stop people from using it.

Oh, I'm actually getting used to it. You may not believe me, but I'm not upset about it. My dog is who he is (and that's all that he is? ). I just don't think "Barbie" helps communication with others outside your group, which I think is a loss for everyone. Now, honest to Pete, I will not say another word about using the term Barbie. I'm sorry if I've been frustrating people. Usually, I drop things when I see an impass. I'm not sure why I've been so persistant/pesky this time.

[Shetlander]

Originally posted by KillerH:

Are you breeding your dogs/ are your friends breeding their dogs???

 

if not this is really a non issue for you and them. You have NO REASON to tell them we are calling their dogs "Borderlines" becasue we are not.

 

Even if you or them (hopefully mistakenly) get a "Barbie Collie" or "Borderline"

Unless you are holding it up to the world as the STANDARD of the breed.-

No harm/No foul

Its a Border Collie.

I'm not a breeder and none of my BC friends are. We're just simple agility folk. I was just using talking to my friends as an example, not a plan. There is more than enough drama in the dog world for me.

 

I know they say that ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law, but I can only plead ignorance for buying my sports bred dog. I wouldn't hold Quinny up as a standard of anything but being a complete joy in my household. Well, that's what the sheltie and I think, anyway. The Lhasa's not a big fan

[Howdyjabo]

I am willing at admit that newcomers can obviously be put off unnecessarily by the terms "Barbie Collie" and "Borderline"

 

Heres an idea--

Add a spot to the read this first-- with alot of this thread explaining why they are used and what kind of bred dogs that they refer to. Along with if the shoe don't fit don't wear it.

Along with an offer to quit useing those terms on this board when the "other" side chooses something else for us to refer to them as(Border Collie is obviously off the table).

 

Because again-- either officially or unofficially they ARE different and they will be referered to differently by those that see the difference.

 

And we see the difference