Suicidal Dog? (Any ideas, or experience, or have you ever heard of it before?)

[SS Cressa]

I realize that sounds like a joke but I am serious.

 

Has any one ever dealt with a dog that seems like he has a death wish?

 

Right now I am still shaken.

 

But Troy has:

at home:

-jumped from a second story window to concrete

-Jumped a gated from the top of slippery stairs

-Jump to the top of the fridge and off again

-turn the stove on and almost starting a fire.

-Stands so close to the fireplace/heater he started to smoke and I had to litereally push him away and refused to let him get close to the fireplace/heater since he tried again and again. (Even my puppy know better than to stand THAT close to the fire/heat.)

 

When brought with me:

-Escaped from the car to play in a busy parking lot

-Will freak out till he is over heated. (That isn't a constant thing and I generally don't know why he is doing it. He isn't hurt. There isn't anything different. Just sometimes he just can't handle me being away from him. This can be in the car, in a xpen, in a kennel at different places. When he gets freaked out his thunder shirt will help him calm down.)

 

On walks:

-Tries to jump off cliffs (mutiple times on different outings)

-Tried to jump into a deep pit (that took everyone by surprised)

-Tried to drown himself (that happen yesterday and really freaked me out.)

**He knows about the cliffs/pit in advance. (Ex: with the pit he had stop to check it out since it wasn't there before then continue walking with us. The next time we went around the loop Troy threw himself towards the hole?! And the next time we made the loop he tried again?!)

 

Most of the above I just manage. Like keeping windows close, kenneling him when I am not near him, making sure he is with me, trying to always be aware of him when he is with me and having the appropriate supplies with me aka thunder shirt/calming pheromones, putting a leash on him near cliffs, etc...

 

Right now I just feel like to keep him alive I have to be on high alert 24/7 and constantly expect the unexpected. Plus I am still freaked out.

 

On a side note other than this last incident he never has actually hurt himself from any of his attempts.

 

This isn't an attempt to make light of suicides I just havent a clue what else to call it. Also these behaviors are not 24/7. It more like at least 1x a month he is going to try to kill himself. You never know when he is going to try. Just that he will.

 

ETA: Troy is 5 years old. And he is the only border collie I know or for that matter the only dog I have know that does this.

Ex: With the deep pit. The other dogs came by to investigate the pit then avoided the area. There wasn't any critter that caught his attention. Didn't see any and his behavior would have been different.

[nancy]

You say he's 5 years old. Have you had him all this time? If not, do you know anything about his previous life?

 

If so, is this a new behavior? Has something changed in his life? You never know what makes a dog think what.

 

Have you discussed this with your vet?

[waffles]

I definitely laughed a bit but honestly, most of those things are not activities that the dog would know are inherently dangerous. A dog does not know that turning a stove on can cause a fire which is dangerous nor does he know that a busy parking lot could get him hit by a car. It sounds like you have a very fun, lively dog who is just enjoying life. Unless he is doing these things out of anxiety? Because the freaking out and overheating just sounds like a lot of anxiety from being away from his owner.

 

I have had cats stand over candles until their fur burned and also lay in front of fire places until they were almost too hot for me to touch. Animals do things that seem dangerous to us but if they don't already have a fear of something, how could they possibly know it was dangerous? Otherwise, emergency 24/7 veterinary hospitals would not exist.

 

I personally do not believe a dog can want to kill himself. I know a dog who regularly runs down the middle of the road, does she want to die or does she just not have anything else to do to expel energy? Or dogs that have been 'attacked' by porcupines more than once, you would think they would have learned it was painful to meet with that animal or dogs choking on things, how could they know that sock would get lodged in their throat?

[SS Cressa]

I have never had an animal be so oblivious mutiple times to flames/heat that they almost caught themselves on fire repeatedly. I also have never known another dog(nor has anyone I talked too) that has so little fear of heights.

 

And Yes I have had him since puppyhood.

 

At 12 weeks about is when he busted out and jumped from the second story window. (ETA: He started young and small. And seems to get worst. Generally I either describe him as suicidal or he believes himself to be indestructible)

 

I guess I am judging him by comparing his behavior to the other dogs in the house and the other dogs who we interact with on a regular basis.

 

I haven't talked with the vet since we have difference of opinions on the basics stuff (food, vaccines, altering) plus they will not refer you to a behaviorist they would rather "fix" it themselves. And they are NOT behavorist.

 

I do like my vet since they are close by, they are used to sport dogs and their weird owners demands, I am friends with the staff, also some of the doctors are known for being good for dog sport injuries.

[mrenee]

Just from your post it almost sounds like there's something up with his depth perception or something similar. Maybe he doesn't realize how high these things actually are? Have you ever had his vision checked?

 

Like waffles mentioned, all of these things are extremely dangerous, but not things that a dog would inherently know were dangerous. Almost sounds like he just gets excited and/or anxious and acts impulsively instead of thinking about what he's doing.

 

 

I definitely don't think it's suicidal, though it is strange. If you don't think it's health related I would definitely look into a behaviorist. You shouldn't have to be referred to one by a vet. It could be that be behaviors are anxiety driven. Or it could even be that you're inadvertently reinforcing these behaviors (i.e. giving him more attention when he does things like that). I think it would help to have someone with an outsiders perspective come and see his behavior.

 

Granted, I'm not an expert or professional in dog behavior or anything (though in a couple of years I will be, =) ) this is just what I take from reading about the behaviors.

[jvw]

I can only add that my dog would lay so close to fire that she would smoke before we figured out she had a thyroid issue.

 

No idea on the other behaviors. But a visual problem seems plausible.

[SS Cressa]

He has been thyroid check and he is normal. Both of his parents were clear for CEA.

 

I never consider eye problems since he never had issues in agility. He doesn't have problem doing any obstacles. He doesn't take out jumps. He is able to hit his contacts. But I could try to get his eye checked.

[Gloria Atwater]

Years ago, I had a cat melt his tail standing next to a propane heater. We were sitting around one cold evening and suddenly smelled a growing stench of burnt hair. We looked and realized that Smokey (he had the name BEFORE he did this) had his tail pressed against the glass front of the heater- and he was smoldering. But he stood there amidst the reek of burning hair and had no clue anything was wrong. After we snatched him from the brink of self-immolation, I had to brush out all the crunchy, melted burnt hair. Fortunately it spared the skin of his tail.

That same cat also walked out to the horse corral one day, and stropped himself around the ankle of the horse my husband was unsaddling. 10 seconds later, the air was full of dust, the saddle was over the fence, my husband was on the fence, and the horse was snorting and trembling while it peered suspiciously at a very confused cat. Meanwhile, Smokey once again had no idea that he'd just missed being stomped into a dozen pieces.

Sometimes animals really just don't know. And sometimes they are extra impulsive. Wish I could help, but meanwhile I'll just wish you luck.

~ Gloria

[urge to herd]

I'd go with Gloria's idea. Troy seems to be impulsive and not one to learn from mistakes. Many border collies are the opposite - one little unexpected thing will set them up for paranoia for the rest of their lives. I couldn't touch the drawer that held the nail clippers without Shoshone slinking from the room. It didn't matter that there were treats and a brush in the drawer, both of which she loved. She saw me get those stinkin' clippers out once. Once. That was all it took.

 

Troy maybe as extreme in the other direction. Like, everything he sees is an invitation to go "Wheeeeee!" no matter what happens.

 

I don't think animals, at least other than primates, maybe elephants, whales, dolphins, have the emotional/spiritual equipment to think of suicide. It takes a fair amount of higher thought process to figure out, "I'm miserable, so I'll throw myself in front of this car". It's way more likely he just acts without thinking about it.

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

[mrenee]

Does he have really good sit-stays and/or down-stays? If he is acting impulsively working with him on those and making them really difficult (i.e. 15 min out of sight sit-stays) could help him increase his self control and maybe start thinking before he acts.

[ChantalB]

He just sounds like a curious, and fun dog. Loving life and adventure. Mine is oblivious to heights, nerves of steel sometimes.... I think he gets a rush out of doing crazy things . As an 8 week old he jumped off a 5 foot book shelf. He once jumped off a cliff of sorts. I once threw a friabee over a 10-12 foot fence. i groaned and jokingly told him to get it.... In a second he was over and back... He is oblivious to cars sometimes too, doesn't understand they are dangerous. I mean he travels in them to go to fun places so they must be okay to Play around in, Right?

 

That pit, he could of just been really curious about it. Like a teen boy, or thrill seeker.

 

The fire/heat thing is weird, but he could just really enjoy hot things.

[SS Cressa]

He does have horrible impulse control unless there is a set boundary. I can put him in a spot and as long as he knows his limit he is good. As in we do mat games or crate games. I can leave him in an open crate and work another dog in front of him and he won't budge or fuss. I can do the same with a mat. But it has to have a set limit else he moves.

 

,

I can work on more impulse controls.

 

I do a lot of control work while playing. And yes he knows down and sit. And stay.

[mbc1963]

Hmm... I have never had a dog who was NOT afraid of fire, and in my memory, I can't remember one who went too close to precipitous drops. I do think that some fears come hard-wired into us and into dogs. My dog Buddy took five minutes last trash day approaching a very dangerous looking BAG that had blown into my neighbor's yard.

 

Having said that, humans are all born with the same instincts, and we still end up with... say... me, versus Evil Knievel. Thrill-seeking and an outlandish joie-de-vivre seem to exist in all species.

 

That's no help, I know. But listening to you talk about your dog reminds me of seeing my 8th graders come to school wtih their limbs broken from crazy snowboarding tricks or dangerous football tackles. They sure have fun while they're breaking themselves.

 

Mary

[Tommy Coyote]

I had one that was almost that bad. He tried to jump off a 2nd storey deck one time but I caught him before he went over. He also ran right into a flooding creek one time and I really thought he was a goner until I managed to get him to swim to the side of the creek where he could get out. If I had the dogs out to run at the lake he would always get into trouble. I just had to watch him like a hawk and keep him on line most of the time.

 

I had another dog that almost hanged herself. She was a fence climber and would climb over the fence with her line on. She did that a trial one time where the only place to tie dogs up was along a fence line. I just had to be sure that wherever she was tied up was not anywhere there was something to climb over. Or keep her line so short she just had to sit there and behave hereself. She also loved to swim and one time she swam right up to a goose nest. I thought I was going to have to go in after her when the geese attacked but she managed to get herself out of the way. It was always something. Another time she got too close to a fox and he ran her out of his territory

 

Neither one of those dogs had much danger sense. They just charged right on in and then I was stuck trying to get them out of trouble. They were both smart and just extra adventurous. So I had to be extra wary and aware of any potential problems.

[border_collie_crazy]

Troy and my Brother would get along well lol, 12 years old "hey..that big lake.. I should swim across it and back!" "hey a fence rail...I should take a run at it, jump onto the rail and do a back flip onto the cement!" "hey that's a really steep mountain and with no trail, Bike time!" * little kid, allowed to walk 2 minutes to the corner store by himself, instead goes on a 4 hour excursion through Downtown Toronto* sometimes you get people who's attitude to life is "hey, it COULD be fun!" I imagine that applies to some dogs too!

[SS Cressa]

Just a weird side effect from his latest close call with death. Troy is now fascinated with sniffing the surface of the water near lakes and ponds. And sometimes he will even kick up the stuff from the bottom to get a better sniff.

 

I always thought water was odorless or didn't carry smells well. Either my dog is a freak of nature or I am wrong. Lol

[gcv-border]

 

 

I always thought water was odorless or didn't carry smells well. Either my dog is a freak of nature or I am wrong. Lol

Troy has just discovered that water IS full of smells, I guess.

 

From the SAR side of things: As part of their training, my friend's SAR group will train their dogs to sniff out live humans/or cadavers in the water. I have also heard of dogs that are trained to detect whale poop while traveling in a boat. Apparently these dogs are used in biological studies of whale populations and locations and migrations.

 

Jovi

[mtnfrank]

Just a weird side effect from his latest close call with death. Troy is now fascinated with sniffing the surface of the water near lakes and ponds. And sometimes he will even kick up the stuff from the bottom to get a better sniff.

 

I always thought water was odorless or didn't carry smells well. Either my dog is a freak of nature or I am wrong. Lol

 

Some chemicals are lighter than water and will float to the surface then evaporate and be in the air just above the surface. That's what the dog is smelling. Kicking the bottom may release more of it.

 

Water search dogs don't smell the water but just above the water.