Dealing with strangers

[Jexa]

Hi there! New to the boards with a question:

 

 

A little background- I've had my 7 month old BC pup since he was about 8 weeks old. We got him from the shelter after he had most of his tail chopped off (his name is Rudder since he's missing most of his) and was dumped with his siblings in a ditch. We thought he might have some lab in him but as he's grown up, he's looking and acting all border.

 

 

He's a great dog- sweet, smart, super eager to please, and freaking adorable to boot, not that I'm biased But not brave. He's improving every day and is doing great, but strangers are still big scary things that might want to eat him. He wants to meet them- his little knub goes crazy and he dances in place when he sees someone, but if he doesn't know them, he won't leave my side or will run if they approach him. He's improved tons, and will willingly greet most people even when they come up to him when we're out and about, but at home he's still very shy.

 

 

My question isn't so much how to help Rudder, because he's making great progress overall. My problem is getting visitors to LISTEN when I tell them to ignore the dog. Rudder does great when people just act like he's not there, but even after I tell people this, they will stare at him, walk toward him, try to reach out and snag a pet as he goes running for cover, etc. The other day my friends backed him under the car and STILL were reaching their hands under the car to try to pet him. They were trying to "reassure him"?? I don't get it, they're intelligent, sensible adults, yet when I repeatedly tell them to just ignore him, instead I guess they ignore me. People are clueless, it's so frustrating! I don't want him to lose trust in me or have his fear turn into aggression, but nothing I'm saying is working. I should clarify that this is not the norm- most people will at least not try to pet him or approach him when I tell them. Any ideas for when this situation happens? I put him in his crate after the car incident, but I hate to miss out on an opportunity for him to meet people. Thanks, and sorry it was long!

[Liz P]

Physically block them from getting near your dog if you have to and give them a copy of this article to read (He Just Wants to Say Hi).

[Jexa]

1334723014[/url]' post='415916']Physically block them from getting near your dog if you have to and give them a copy of this article to read (He Just Wants to Say Hi).

 

Great article, though I think any visitors would assume I've finally gone off the deep end if I handed them pages of reading to do

I did have to physically get between Rudder and these guys when he backed under the car. I'd had to run to grab the phone, and assumed saying "ignore him and he'll eventually come meet you" would keep the peace for the 5 seconds I was gone, since they'd been keeping their space and Rudder was relaxed. Certainly learned my lesson!

The issue is that like the article says, people are ignorant. Unfortunately, I don't have a good way to quickly educate them in a way that would stick.

[mbc1963]

My problem is getting visitors to LISTEN when I tell them to ignore the dog. Rudder does great when people just act like he's not there, but even after I tell people this, they will stare at him, walk toward him, try to reach out and snag a pet as he goes running for cover, etc.

 

::Sigh::

 

Welcome to my world. Seven years in, I still have no solution to your problem. It seems as though some people simply cannot understand this concept of "leave the dog alone, dummy."

 

One thing I've done that has worked for random approaching strangers is to say, "Would you give him a treat?" For some people - especially kids - this seems to be an even more exciting interaction than patting the dog, and I've found that they're happy to pass off the treat and then back off. It's also helped Buddy get a sense that often, strangers = treats.

 

For my friends who love dogs and assume that Buddy will therefore come to them, all I can do is watch as their frustration grows - Buddy won't give them what they want. It must be a tenet of some religion, somewhere: that which you desire will not come to you until you stop desiring it.

 

Mary

[Sue R]

This is such a common problem - people just don't know how to act around dogs and think that what makes sense to them (as a person) will make perfect sense to the dog (who is not a person).

 

As Liz P says, if you have to put yourself physically in the way to help your dog, do so. Tell the person or people, in polite but certain terms, what they need to do if they wish to interact with your dog. If they won't listen and act in a non-threatening manner (and, to a dog, a straight-on approach, an outstretched hand over their head, a standing person bending over towards them, and lots of exciting vocal sounds are all threatening), you may just need to take your dog, turn away, and leave.

 

Use of treats is a great idea for those people that are willing to listen long enough for you to explain what they need to do. And you can start with people ignoring the dog, taking the treat, and just dropping it on the ground for him to pick up. Or, they can turn their back and hold the treat out behind them and dropping it, for even less anxiety for your dog.

 

Your youngster (who is totally cute, by the way) is at an age that is often considered a "fear phase" and your handling of situations to help him is particularly critical. If the people you meet normally are not going to listen, arrange meetings with people who will work *with* you, do what you ask, and help you to help him learn that strangers are fun.

 

Prep them with treats; explain how they should interact with your dog (and you already know at least some of that - ignore him; don't make eye contact; stand sideways to your dog; approach on a curving, not straight and head-on, path; be quiet and calm with their movements and voice; crouch down when he's ready to "make contact"; reach out to pet under the chin and not over the head; toss or drop treats initially until he is ready to take them from their hands.

 

Have you read "Calming Signals"? While the book is about how dogs defuse potential aggression with behaviors that say to another dog that they mean no harm, are friendly, and don't want aggression, a person can take a lot from it in terms of how that person can reduce anxiety in a dog meeting him/her for the first time.

 

Find some people who will work *with you* to help your dog get past this stage in life and learn these valuable lessons. Very best wishes!

[Root Beer]

I know exactly what you mean! I dealt with that with Speedy for years.

 

With him, I learned to be assertive with people. The first request to give him space was polite. The second was no-nonsense. Someone who could not respect the first request, or did not understand it, was not someone I wanted to try to interact with him.

 

I've heard of some people with shy dogs who make them a vest that says "Dog in Training, please ignore" or something like that, and they have good results with it. Apparently many people will take following the instructions of a handler whose dog looks to be doing some kind of specialized training more seriously. That also gives those handlers the opportunity to give special instructions (ex. turn away from the dog and drop a treat on the ground, you can pet the dog on his chest, etc.) when the time comes when their dogs are ready for those sorts of things. If I had it to do over with Speedy (I didn't hear of that until he had worked through most of his issues), I would probably try that.

 

I believe those vests can actually be purchased, but I don't have any details.

 

I wish you the best. Working with a shy dog is incredibly rewarding. They are amazing teachers.

[bcnewe2]

Right there with you but my Faye is younger. I guess I'm a b*%$h cause I just tell the person right off the top and assume they are going to listen otherwise I step inbetween them and the dog.

 

I also told some kids the other day that if they messed with her and scarred her that she would probably bite. They believed me and left her alone.

 

The other night SIL came over and within a few minutes Faye was all over him. My mouth was on the floor.

 

I think my saving grace is Dew my older dog is her leader (so says Faye) and if she sees Dew liking someone then they must be ok. Sad part is Dew is not that fond of kids.

 

Oh well, as long as they don't bite strangers I'm not to worried that they aren't all friendly. I know it's hard cause you want everyone else to see how cute your dog is but really you know it, and the people who matter know it so why worry bout the rest.

[G. Festerling]

Hmmm.... I have a rep for being sort of demanding and pushy so I don't have those issues too often! Plus, around here most people know that I have some dogs who it is well known are to be respected.

However, I started playing a game with my scaredy cat dogs. With food and lots of praise. And essentially it is nothing but look at the person get praised, take a step, get praised and so on. Basic, basic clicker. It is so basic that most people I recruit have no issue understanding. They don't treat, I do. Later on I may let them have treats. But only if they behave.

[urge to herd]

Great suggestions! I'd add these.

 

Along with working with Rudder with your agreeable friends, work with yourself. Practice stepping quickly in between Rudder and a friend. Train him to step behind you when a friend walks towards you. Work up a brief 'infomercial' and work with your friend and Rudder in saying it. Get feedback from your friend, is your 'infomercial' easy to understand, too long, not enough, etc.

 

Often if you give people some way to interact with your dog that you can control, like suggestions above, AND tell them that you're working on his shyness/focus on you/holding a stay, whatever, they're easier to manage. The humans, that is.

 

Don't rule out the possibility of friendly and dog-knowledgeable strangers. Years ago, when we first had Samantha, a power company guy came to our door to tell me the electricity was going to be off for a while.

He's outfitted in boots, hardhat, big gloves, and a clanking tool belt. Sami is hiding behind me.

 

I ask if he has a minute to help me with my shy dog. Without my telling him, he takes off all his gear, turns sideways, crouches down and holds out his hand without looking at Sam! It was perfect.

 

And practice getting really firm, really clear, and really quickly. Rudder might relax more quickly if you're able to stop these rude humans from invading his space!

 

Good luck, he's certainly a very cute boy!

 

Ruth and Gibbs, who is shy himself, but getting bolder all the time

[gcv-border]

Great suggestions all ^^^

 

When I read your post, I immediately thought of treats, and I also like recruiting a friend for training, stepping between dog and person or using a dog-in-training vest. Basically, whatever works.

 

People just do not follow directions. I keep tring to deal with my uber-people-friendly dog who likes to jump up to greet people. No matter how often I tell people to just cross their arms and turn away if he jumps, they ALWAYS want to say 'no' and push him off with their arms. So he gets reinforced for jumping - pushing him off is just a game, right? I have had to try and be more restrictive in that I try to have him on a leash so I can control his behavior better since the humans are not 'trainable'.

 

Jovi

[Sue R]

People just do not follow directions. I keep tring to deal with my uber-people-friendly dog who likes to jump up to greet people. No matter how often I tell people to just cross their arms and turn away if he jumps, they ALWAYS want to say 'no' and push him off with their arms. So he gets reinforced for jumping - pushing him off is just a game, right? I have had to try and be more restrictive in that I try to have him on a leash so I can control his behavior better since the humans are not 'trainable'.

 

Jovi

Well, either that or they say, "It's okay, I like dogs." Just as bad even though they are kind and mean well.

 

It took me a while to get this across to the grandkids, as both Dan and Megan are children- and baby-lovers extraordinaire. Finally, one grandson, aged 9, who was visiting for a week last summer, took it upon himself to listen to me and then to "train" Dan as I had asked, so that Dan would be safe around the little ones (safe from knocking them over with love).

 

Our grandson worked each day with Dan, teaching him that he would not get attention if he was rude, and that if he sat, he would get praise and petting. Dan caught on fast now that the one present child was being consistent and using good training techniques. And that has transferred (largely) to interactions with other children, as this boy's siblings (that were old enough) imitated his dealings with Dan to good results.

 

Children are often more trainable than adults, at least the younger ones - they are interested in learning, and love to be able to turn around and "teach" the dog and the younger children.

[Jexa]

Great suggestions, thanks! I have tried giving strangers treats to give him, with only limited success. I never thought to just give them myself, I will definitely try that! As for being assertive, that is 90% of my frustration. As any one who knows me will attest to, I am by no means quiet or timid, especially when it comes to my animals. You wouldn't believe how direct/b*tchy I've had to get when it comes to my off the track Thoroughbred On second thought, based on your suggestions you probably would...people are crazy!

We frequently go to petsmart, etc to meet strangers, and it always amazes me how rude people let their kids be. Luckily Rudder loves kids, and will happily tolerate their loudness and total invasion of space, but I still find myself teaching them NOT to go screaming up to a strange dog and wacking it on the head as the parents either encourage the rude behavior or ignore their kid completely. If I had gone running up to a strange dog as a kid, without the owner's permission, my parents would have had my head. I just don't get it. But as you said Sue at least most of those kids will listen and learn, unlike their parents. Maybe it will save one of them a bitten hand down the road...

I wish I could show rude strangers a video of Rudder meeting my BIL, who is big guy- Rudder's worst nightmare. BIL did exactly as we asked and ignored him completely. In less than 5 minutes Rudder was crawling into his lap demanding attention. I just want to hit the stupid ones on the head and say "it works, people! I know my dog, I'm not lying to you!!"

 

Edited to add: Root Beer I love the vest idea and will definitely look into that.

[simba]

With kids and chickens we had 'the chair'. You sit in 'the chair', you get a rooster to pet. Instead of children running at the flock, everyone scattering, kids getting scared by the flapping and the 'bad chickens' etc you get 5 minutes of gentle patting time and child goes off running to tell their parents.

 

 

Not sure how to implement this with adults, though. Maybe tell 'em the dog instantly befriends people who sit in a particular chair? You have to have some pseudorational explanation for it though, like he was abused by people but only when they stood up. So he's fine with people so long as they sit in the chair. And make no noise. And look at the sky. The abuser stared, and talked, you see.

Or the first person he met sat in the chair, so he loves people who do that?

 

The really funny thing is when a kid gets scared of an animal (over absolutely nothing, or over something which was the child's fault) and the parent agrees with them and goes "Oh, wasn't that a bad chicken/dog/hamster/rabbit!" And then (in one instance) brings the child over, smiling at how cute this is, to give the dog a 'smack'. Okay, they're holding the child's hand, they won't hurt the animal, but now the kid's giving a death-glare to the evil monster and has learned absolutely nothing except Animals Are Bad.

 

The dog, meanwhile, knows full well that was intended as a 'smack' (the death-glare and "bold!" could be a clue), and is wondering what the hell is going on. I wonder if pit bull or greyhound owners have these problems?

[waffles]

Not sure if someone already suggested this, but put a sign on your front door. But write it as if the dog were talking, So for example - (put a photo of Rudder at the top) "Hi guys! I am in training right now and am still very shy about meeting people. I would love it if you would ignore me when you first come inside so I do not get scared. If you ignore more for a while I promise I will eventually warm up to you and we can be friends! Thanks for helping me learn that people are nice."

 

Typically people don't like to be "told" to do or not to do something and will just blow you off thinking they know better than you do. But if you make it sound like the dog is personally asking them to do something then people seem to take it better.

 

BTW the photo on the couch is adorable!

[D'Elle]

I love all these suggestions. I am especially fond of yours, Waffles. I am currently dealing with an excessively shy and fearful dog, my foster dog Kelso (see his story in Rescue Resources). By the way, your puppy *is* freaking adorable!!

D'Elle