Sam being Castrated on Thursday - Benefits?

[BorderCollieSam]

Hi my wife has been gunning for my Sams nuts to be chopped off for months now! Initially i was really against it, as i wanted to keep him all man. I don't want him creating unwanted pups, but i did want to preserve his male parts and keep him how he was originally designed.

 

However, even though Sam is really really obedient and very responsive, over the past few months i have noticed him developing some unwanted male/territorial traits.

 

Sam will be a year old on 30th November, I got Sam at 6 weeks, and started training him immediately. Sam has a very responsive recall and due to this i never have him on the lead. However, i was speaking to some old ladies the other day in the park who were sitting on deck chairs enjoying the sunshine. Sam walked around the back of these old ladies and cocked his leg and urinated up their backs. I diciplined him immediately and made him know that i wasn't happy with his actions, however last week, i was speaking to another man in the park, and Sam walked around the back of him and cocked his leg and absolutely soaked the mans trousers.

 

Have any of you ever experienced this type of behaviour from a male dog? I have owned a lot of dogs in the past but most were females, and the males i had (when a kid) were rescue dogs and were allready castrated when we took them home.

 

I'm wondering whether castrating him will cure this problem?

 

Sam is booked in for Thursday this week.

[Sue R]

Castration provides a number of benefits, some guaranteed and some not. It definitely prevents testicular cancer. It may well avoid the development of certain "masculine" traits and reduce the appearance of certain masculine traits that have already appeared. It tends to reduce aggressiveness that is associated with being intact.

 

In my mind, if for no other reason, it means your dog won't lose his mind when a bitch is in season within any distance that he can detect, reduce wandering (I know Sam doesn't have the chance to do that but, should the garden gate be open by mistake...), avoid a fussing male dog in the middle of the night when true love calls, and other behaviors and issues associated with an intact male.

 

Others can give you much better advice but one thing I would ask you to consider is that many male Border Collies' growth plates (and associated long bone growth) are not closed until 14 months or so. While my one dog was neutered at six months and has shown no ill effects so far (at age seven), a very active dog might benefit from waiting on neutering until 14 months or a bit later for this reason.

 

As for soaking that man's pants, it happened and now it's your responsibility to manage Sam to avoid that again and teach him that it's unacceptable. A dog may do something once and it's a mistake - if he does it again, it's becoming a habit and you need to be proactive and prevent that behavior. Can I give you any useful information on training that? No. Just don't let it happen.

 

Best wishes!

[IPSY]

RUN SAM, RUN LIKE THE WIND !!!!

[geonni banner]

My one experience with owning an intact male was with a Rough Collie. As a veteran of years of rescue work, the urge to spay/neuter is pretty well-entrenched, but for some reason I never neutered Sensei. As he was not allowed outside without a human, he never fathered any pups, but really, he had little interest in bitches - in heat or otherwise. But he wasn't the sharpest spoon in the drawer in general - so that may have contributed to that. He did cock a leg on someone once - but was read the riot act for it and never repeated the offense.

 

On the other hand...

 

As it has been pointed out - dogs with no testicles are safe from testicular cancer. Their licenses are usually significantly cheaper too! I once knew an intact GSD who crashed through a picture window to get at a bitch in heat. He did get to her too, and then went to the vet to get his several lacerations sewn up. She was on leash, but the efforts of her owner to keep him at bay were futile, and by the time the GSD's owner arrived on the scene a tie had been effected (and later the bitch had to go for a morning-after shot.) Various colorful unpleasantness ensued. He got neutered when he got his cuts stitched up. The GSD's owner paid both vet bills.

Unfortunately, being "a man of the world" the neutering did not extinguish the GSD's interest in the ladies, but it did dim it to a noticeable extent. Better to get them done before they know what they're missing. I've know a few experienced males that were perfectly willing and able to deliver "blanks" after being neutered.

 

If I were to take a male pup or dog in the future, I would definitely get him neutered - but I much prefer bitches, so...

[MicheleS.]

Though not scientific just personal experience, I have noticed that since Chase has been neutered, almost immediately his urge to lift his leg on everything in sight has stopped. He still lifts his leg but doesn't seem to feel the need to mark everything. He also isn't obsessed with the ladies anymore and seems more in tune with me and less about the ladies and his environment.

Still the same Chase but he seems to have much less to worry about. I waited until he was about 17-18 months to neuter him for the reasons that Sue R explained in her post.

I would have been mortified if Chase ever lifted his leg on a person, but while he was intact, I wouldn't have been surprised

[Alchemist]

I lost my very first Border collie (an intact male) because a bitch was in season in our neighborhood; he waited until the gate on our back yard wasn't firmly latched and escaped, only to be hit by a car. All of my subsequent dogs (and cats) have been neutered. Personally I'm waiting until my current pup's growth plates have closed so that I can get him neutered without its compromising his musculoskeletal integrity. Actually I'm counting the moments; he started "marking" at 7 months (inanimate objects so far, thankfully) so I've been telling him he's surviving on suffrance; too much of that misbehavior and his nuts are history.

 

It's my understanding that if dogs exhibit certain behaviors (like "humping"), neutering has a roughly 60% chance of eliminating this behavior. I'm afraid I don't know what your chances are of eliminating marking on humans. Reading them the riot act each and every time it happens (and taking pains to make sure they don't have the opportunity) would certainly help. It may take six weeks or so for the hormones to flush from their systems after neutering, so don't count on any overnight miracles.

 

Best of luck -

[BorderCollieSam]

Only another day to go, have to take Sam in at 09:00hrs in the morning and can collect him at 17:00hrs tommorow night. I'm a little worried about him having the operation, but he's a really strong dog so i'm hoping everything will go fine.

 

Apart from him cocking his leg and urinating up peoples legs, he isn't much of a problem. He doesn't try to hump people (yet) and is 90% of the time controllable around a bitch, he will run towards a bitch and if i don't recall him he will lick very severely and spend a lot of time concentrating whilst doing it, however on his way to the bitch, if i recall him, you can see him looking at me slightly whilst he's on his way, and you can see him thinking of the outcome if he doesn't recall, and then when i drop the tone of my voice to a very low deep growl he will eventually recall as he knows i won't be happy if he doesn't.

 

Sam is a very energetic dog, he can run easily 7 miles with me whilst i'm on my bike riding cross country fields and really enjoys it, he picks up big sticks along the way and runs with the stick all the way back home, and then lays down in our garden with his new find (the stick) and enjoys chewing the stick into pieces. He is very 'boyish' in his personality, and is a very happy and hyperactive dog, i'm hoping the operation won't change this? Sam fits my lifestyle perfectly and it would be a shame to end up with a boring lathargic dog....

[juliepoudrier]

Castration won't affect his energy levels or desire to bike with you or his basic personality, etc. And you've been lucky so far that you've been able to call him off a bitch in heat. If he's at a distance from you and licking the bitch, he can mount and tie before you can get there. As Geonni Banner notes, when the urge is there, it's difficult to stop it. What's working in your favor with Sam is his relative immaturity. And FWIW, most vets (here in the US anyway) no longer give anyone the option of a "morning after" shot because the risks to the bitch from the shot outweigh the benefits of terminating the pregnancy. And since you like to go on long bike rides, etc., it seems to me that not having to worry about him striking out after a bitch in heat would make those long rides even more enjoyable.

 

J.

[Sue R]

Sam fits my lifestyle perfectly and it would be a shame to end up with a boring lathargic dog....

So much of how a dog is (couch potato, athlete, fat, slim, active partner) is due to what you do with him, not whether or not he/she is neutered. Keep up an active lifestyle with Sam and you will have an active dog, intact or neutered.

 

So many people blame fatness and laziness on neutering - it's really mainly due to feeding a dog too much, and not participating in fun and active exercise with the dog. But the neutering gets the blame...

 

Best wishes for Sam and you. I think you will find that a neutered Sam is a happy, healthy, active dog and one that you don't have to worry about. If he stayed intact, the issues with bitches would just get worse. As Julie said, it's been easy so far because he's immature, and that would change in future months.

[geonni banner]

Most pet dogs seem to get neutered/spayed around the time they become sexually mature. At that time even intact dogs calorie requirements usually begin to fall. High-calorie puppy food is replaced by adult rations. Commonly people feed too much at this stage - "He always ate 3 cups before!." But people don't blame the changing metabolism of the maturing dog, they blame the operation. They often exacerbate the problem by feeding food that's too hot for the average pet-dog's needs. He puts on a few lbs. and as a result, slows down a bit. Again, the spay/neuter gets blamed. Even if the dog is fixed at a very early age, as so many shelter and rescue dogs are, the fact that he got neutered is blamed for his fatness and slowing down - rather than a failure to adjust his rations to his changing needs as he matures.

 

Also, as the dog becomes a dog, and not a puppy, people may be less motivated to train and play with them. They get bored with the routine and the net effect is the dog gains weight and shifts to a more food-centered frame of mind to fill the boring spaces. If you skip two Frisbee or ball sessions a week and substitute a peanut-butter-stuffed kong to keep the dog occupied while you do other things, he's going to be less stimulated, and well, do the calorie math on 20 minutes with a Frisbee vs. a stuffed kong. In addition, the expanding waistline may be seen as a sign of mature proportions rather than a fattening dog.

 

As Sue R said, it's all about how you manage the dog. Keep him motivated by giving him plenty of exercise and mental stimulation, don't over feed, and you'll still have the go-getter you've got now. He just won't be so much of a "go-get-HER."

[BorderCollieSam]

Most pet dogs seem to get neutered/spayed around the time they become sexually mature. At that time even intact dogs calorie requirements usually begin to fall. High-calorie puppy food is replaced by adult rations. Commonly people feed too much at this stage - "He always ate 3 cups before!." But people don't blame the changing metabolism of the maturing dog, they blame the operation. They often exacerbate the problem by feeding food that's too hot for the average pet-dog's needs. He puts on a few lbs. and as a result, slows down a bit. Again, the spay/neuter gets blamed. Even if the dog is fixed at a very early age, as so many shelter and rescue dogs are, the fact that he got neutered is blamed for his fatness and slowing down - rather than a failure to adjust his rations to his changing needs as he matures.

 

Also, as the dog becomes a dog, and not a puppy, people may be less motivated to train and play with them. They get bored with the routine and the net effect is the dog gains weight and shifts to a more food-centered frame of mind to fill the boring spaces. If you skip two Frisbee or ball sessions a week and substitute a peanut-butter-stuffed kong to keep the dog occupied while you do other things, he's going to be less stimulated, and well, do the calorie math on 20 minutes with a Frisbee vs. a stuffed kong. In addition, the expanding waistline may be seen as a sign of mature proportions rather than a fattening dog.

 

As Sue R said, it's all about how you manage the dog. Keep him motivated by giving him plenty of exercise and mental stimulation, don't over feed, and you'll still have the go-getter you've got now. He just won't be so much of a "go-get-HER."

 

You here so many conflicting opinions on why dogs gain the weight after being neutered, but i agree, weight is only gained when too many calories are consumed and not enough expelled, unless of course thyroid or other problems are associated.

 

I don't mind Sam gaining a few pounds though, as he looks too skinny in my opinion, however the vet says he's perfect build, the vet said something in the region of 80% of the dogs he sees are overweight and therefore people immediately assume a dog like mine is underweight due to the amount of overweight dogs are around.

 

He said something about when viewing from the back the body should taper in and the ribs should be felt but not visible, which Sam is like....

[desertranger]

I've been going crazy about this decision as well. I finally decided to wait until Jin was 18 months for a lot of reasons. Physical maturity, reaching full growth of the plates, personiality and aggression traits and a lot more. I have read a lot about the subject of what age to have my dog broken and after reading what I can I think 16-18 months. The problem is there are no guarantees about what you get at the other end other than a dog that is somewhat less... a dog.

[juliepoudrier]

Oh good grief, I think it's a bit of hyperbole to claim that a dog after neutering is less a dog. I think humans are far more greatly affected by the decision to neuter than any dog has ever been.

 

J.

[Laura L]

The problem is there are no guarantees about what you get at the other end other than a dog that is somewhat less... a dog.

 

Nope. He's still a dog, just somewhat less of a male. I wonder why women don't seem to worry so much about their females being "less of a dog" when they get spayed?

 

Laura

[ejano]

You here so many conflicting opinions on why dogs gain the weight after being neutered, but i agree, weight is only gained when too many calories are consumed and not enough expelled, unless of course thyroid or other problems are associated.

 

I don't mind Sam gaining a few pounds though, as he looks too skinny in my opinion, however the vet says he's perfect build, the vet said something in the region of 80% of the dogs he sees are overweight and therefore people immediately assume a dog like mine is underweight due to the amount of overweight dogs are around.

 

He said something about when viewing from the back the body should taper in and the ribs should be felt but not visible, which Sam is like....

 

I've never had a neutered male that was anything less than I hoped he'd be and a great deal of unwanted behavior did not appear such as the compulsion to pee on every bush and pole, wanderlust, etc. All were healthy, strong dogs that had very good temperaments and retained some of that protective watchfulness and would give a deep "woof" if the situation required. They didn't seem appreciably different in size than intact males and all stayed in good health, though they were neutered at six months - one adopted dog was a year old, I think. Neutering is only a very small part of a dog's health and temperament, and frankly, I think they make a better dog. There's no reason to not neuter unless you expect to breed and the dog is worthy. To me the wanderlust is the biggest reason to neuter or spay. I don't want to lose a dog.

 

Liz

[KrisK]

All my boys are neutered and remain healthy and active...however, even old Zachary STILL likes to pee on every bush...and we have ALOT of bush Doesn't seem that neutering changed that behaviour at all!

Good luck to Sam (and you) He will still be the wonderful fellow that you've always known!

[mum24dog]

True - no guarantee with marking.

To a large extent it depends why the dog is doing it. Some do it when worried and castration is not going to help.

If it's hormone driven, provided it is done early enough and before it has become a habit, there is a good chance of an improvement, but don't expect a dog that will never cock his leg inappropriately.

 

As for weight - none of mine, dog or bitch, has ever put on weight post op.

 

Activity levels - just the same as they were before.

[Shetlander]

I wonder why women don't seem to worry so much about their females being "less of a dog" when they get spayed?

 

I've pondered the same thing. Some guys act like their "nuts" are the ones about to be "chopped off." Personally, I think dogs are much happier not having to deal with sexual urges they are not going to be allowed to act on and getting in trouble for doing "what comes naturally" or out of sheer frustration. My childhood dog was not neutered and our main complaint about an otherwise fantastic dog had to deal with behaviors that disappeared when he was finally neutered at 9 or 10, when he developed testicular cancer. My experience with neutering is it takes the edge off many male dogs and life is less complicated. But then I'm a woman, not a guy.

[Alchemist]

For an interesting cultural perspective: read http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/world/as...dogs&st=nyt

 

In India, purebred dogs are becoming a status symbol. Males are greatly preferred over females. A neutered male would be considered "far less" of a male, so neutering them is rarely done. And of course the dogs' lives would be incomplete if they weren't allowed to satisfy their natural urges. You can read more in this article.

 

Personally, I agree with Shetlander - why allow a dog to go through life in a state of frustration?

[MicheleS.]

After being neutered, Chase is the same playful, energetic and fun dog he's always been. Even better in my opinion. Same with all of the males I've had that have been neutered. I never noticed any decrease in energy or weight gain in any of them. I've only reaped the benefits that others have mentioned here of owning a neutered male.

 

Sending good vibes to Sam for his surgery.

[Gil]

There is the option of finding a vet that will do a vasectomy. This won't affect hormones or male behaviors but it will keep him from reproducing.

[geonni banner]

Oh yeah, and then there's the "Stealth Neuter."

 

Couple has dog with aggression/roaming/marking "issues." Wife wants dog neutered - husband cringes at the very thought. Husband goes on fishing weekend. Wife gets dog neutered. Has "neuticles" inserted where the testes were. Husband comes home, dog appears to have a full set. Dog settles down. Husband says, "I told you so!" Wife smiles and says, "Yes dear. He's a perfect gentleman now." Roll credits...

 

No, I haven't done this - but my vet says there are those who have... Wonder how many AKC Champions have "nylon testicles?"

[Mariji]

Others can give you much better advice but one thing I would ask you to consider is that many male Border Collies' growth plates (and associated long bone growth) are not closed until 14 months or so. While my one dog was neutered at six months and has shown no ill effects so far (at age seven), a very active dog might benefit from waiting on neutering until 14 months or a bit later for this reason.

 

I don't want to hijack the thread, but is there proof as to what age to desex a dog male or female? I have always been told 6 months and settled on this until one day a friend at agility said something about growth plates and i questioned the vets in the area and a few people, but have since settled back on desexing my littlest girl at 6 months. Now im worried again. My older girl was desexed at 16 months mainly because we were asked by many to breed her but decided against it. My littlest will get desexed the first moment i can because of her colour and i can't risk her breeding, but now i have no idea what age to do it!

[Mariji]

however the vet says he's perfect build, the vet said something in the region of 80% of the dogs he sees are overweight and therefore people immediately assume a dog like mine is underweight due to the amount of overweight dogs are around.

 

Oh my gosh i know exactly what you mean. Many (and i mean alot!) of people accuse me of starving my poor dog. It just because where i live there are only fat dogs. My girl is 17.4 kg's and shouldn't go over 18. When you pat him you should be able to feel all his bones. As horrible as this sounds i mean them not protruding out like emaciated. I go by my girls pelvic bones, so if i can feel them enough then she's great. When she's walking i should be able to see where her pelvic bones are (keep in mind she has a medium/flat coat). She also is very muscular in her legs and neck. So just tell someone blankly if they say your dog is too skinny that theres is fat. How about that, i'd love to see the look on their faces.....

[martySQ]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but is there proof as to what age to desex a dog male or female? I have always been told 6 months and settled on this until one day a friend at agility said something about growth plates and i questioned the vets in the area and a few people, but have since settled back on desexing my littlest girl at 6 months. Now im worried again. My older girl was desexed at 16 months mainly because we were asked by many to breed her but decided against it. My littlest will get desexed the first moment i can because of her colour and i can't risk her breeding, but now i have no idea what age to do it!

Excuse me for butting in, but It is important for people to understand that neutering and spaying is not desexing an animal. Sex is what the chromosomes say. Sex is not the "fancy on the outside or fancy on the inside" (as per Mr. Rogers...) equipment the animal has..