mbc1963 Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Or any other class we take, for that matter. I've put Buddy through a load of classes: basic obedience, obedience II, a drop-in obedience class, and now a "real" agility class. My main goal is to get him around some other dogs and chaos to help socialize him. Thing is, he seems like he really couldn't care less about the classes. After a few rounds of "counterclockwise heel," he will just plod along after me with no spark. Even when I pull out the great treats, he seems to look at class behaviors as a chore. Up and down the ramp? Ho hum. Through the hoop? Yeah. Right. I already DID that. Big yawn. Certainly, he has none of the vim and vigor I see in agility videos, where the dogs look like they're LOVING what they're doing. I'll finish this class, because I think it is good for him to be around dogs like this. But, y'all trainers and agility folks, what do you think? Is there a point to taking a dog to classes for which he has no liking and no particular aptitude? Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 You know Mary. Daisy is kinda like that too. I take her to classes for the sole reason of helping her get used to being around other dogs. Learning how to function around them and not be stressed out. She could really care less about doing all that other stuff and I've decided that we're not going to even try agility. Maybe rally-o, but I doubt we'll be competitive because she does kind of have that ho-hum attitude. I do think that it is excellent to go to the classes so that dogs like ours do get to be around other dogs, but sometimes I get the feeling she'd just rather be napping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinky Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Although I did'nt try agility, my last dog really was'nt into fetch or playing with toys no matter how much I tried. She just liked hanging out with me so I left it at that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Some dogs just aren't into doing things like obedience or agility or much of any other "sport." And sometimes, changing training techniques can make a big difference. Quinn likes to do most things but as a youngster wasn't much into obedience. I am giving it another try, using a tug as his reward and making it all one big game. He is having a blast and making very good progress. I think training and classes and competing (depending on how you approach competition) can really build a strong bond with our dogs as well as giving them mental stimulation. But it isn't the only way to build that bond or exercise their minds and bodies. My Sheltie is a stay at home girl who retired early from agility despite being a great little athlete. She just wasn't into showing though she was happy to play with me in the backyard. The Lhasa has fun with agility and loves obedience (go figure). Quinn, as I said, enjoys most activities but I can see that his two favorite things in the world are 1. Sheep and 2. Frisbees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Samantha was the same about agility. She just didn't see the point. Shoshone and Buzz were both very excited about it, however. And EVERYONE loved flyball. It's an individual dog thing, I guess. Funny story about Sami, and it showed me where her focus was. We were in a class with instructors who happended to be two friends of ours. I'd taken some nuked hotdog pieces, and Sam was ok with those as treats, until Marcie 'caught' her after doing like 3 jumps in a row with me at a distance. Marcie had deli turkey shreds. Our next obstacle was the table. I was standing about 6 feet in back of the table and Marcie was about 10 feet in back of me. Sam did her sit on the table, when I released her, she blew right past me and skidded into a perfect sit in front of Marcie, tail wagging furiously. It was the most excited I ever saw her at agility class. Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Or any other class we take, for that matter. I've put Buddy through a load of classes: basic obedience, obedience II, a drop-in obedience class, and now a "real" agility class. My main goal is to get him around some other dogs and chaos to help socialize him. Thing is, he seems like he really couldn't care less about the classes. After a few rounds of "counterclockwise heel," he will just plod along after me with no spark. Even when I pull out the great treats, he seems to look at class behaviors as a chore. Up and down the ramp? Ho hum. Through the hoop? Yeah. Right. I already DID that. Big yawn. Certainly, he has none of the vim and vigor I see in agility videos, where the dogs look like they're LOVING what they're doing. I'll finish this class, because I think it is good for him to be around dogs like this. But, y'all trainers and agility folks, what do you think? Is there a point to taking a dog to classes for which he has no liking and no particular aptitude? Mary Mom's bc Frodo if you make him mad will not perform in agility(he's decent normally) and once peed on my daughters foot in protest of a class. Moms dog Penny will work for a short periods and then go half way into a tunnel and lay down. (sheep another story) Dal does everything exactly like I ask as though he wants to please me but, he's not having fun. They are all individuals. They either love something or hate it. It's not a border collie guarantee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 But, y'all trainers and agility folks, what do you think? Is there a point to taking a dog to classes for which he has no liking and no particular aptitude? Yes and no. It really depends. I've made both decisions. I tried to make a sport dog out of my dog, Sammie. All he really wanted to do was sniff the floor. He's very smart and he was very good at everything I trained him to do, but he wanted to sniff. That was back before I knew about using sniffing to build focus, so I never tried that with him - it might have made a difference, but maybe not. I stopped taking classes with him and let him just be a pet and he is perfectly happy and content. He sniffs to his heart's content in our yard and enjoys things like going hiking. When I first started Agility with Maddie, she had no desire to do it. She was much as you describe Buddy - "you want me to go through that? Whatever." She used to break away from me and run off to the sidelines where our classmates were frequently. I wanted to quit, but our instructor really encouraged us to continue. Two years later, she LOVES Agility - she earned her fifth title today and she's still going strong!! BUT - it took quite a lot of work to get to that point. I had to reward all of her interaction with the equipment (whether "right" or "wrong" at first) to get her to the point where she was ready to work on actual Agility skills and sequencing. Was it worth it? Definitely!! Would I make the same choice for every dog - probably not. I was hoping to do Freestyle with Dean, but he truly doesn't like performing in front of people. He enjoys Freestyle at home or at the training building, but not in front of an audience. On the other hand, he loves Agility, so we've gone with that. Is there anything that Buddy really LOVES - goes absolutely bonkers over - that you could incorporate into your Agility training to transfer it's value to the equipment? A toy or something? If so, you could probably teach Buddy to like it if you really want to. I can give you some ideas if you want to play around with it a bit - if there is something that he really, really LOVES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnLloydJones Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Senneca absolutely loved our beginner class, but did't like the advanced beginner's class. I broke halfway through, because I saw no point in doing it if she wasn't having fun. During our break, I have gradually re-introduced her to the obstacles. She is having fun again and we'll start a new class (different venue) next week. I'm not sure what it was, but the advanced class was late in the evening (under flood-lights) and different instructors. I think you might want to try a new class to see if that helps. Of course, it may just be that he doesn't enjoy agility. You won't know until you try a different class, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizmo Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Lizzie is like that. Although, she did enjoy the couple obedience classes we took, she never got into agility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I have noticed that many working dogs get board w/ beginning agility classes and I think a lot of it is due to the repetition. The beginning classes that I assist in teaching has quite a bit of repetition, and most of the dogs are fine w/ it, but it seems like many of the GSD's, BC's, Aussies and such are put off after a few tries, not that I'm biased or anything I just tend to feel like they are smarter than a lot of the other breeds and once they get it are ready to move on. My recent pup is like that, I never put him through beginner classes, I did all that stuff at home and then went into our open trainer time but I have found that at home, 2 or 3 times w/ the same thing and there goes the focus. Treats could be part of it, does he really enjoy toys more. My guys all work better for tugging than food, but have all learned to work for food as well. One thing if he isn't into the food is to make sure that you don't feed him dinner before class and that way the treats might have a higher value. With my first agility dog Boots my trainer kept me in the intermediate group for a long time. It turned out that she didn' think I could move up to the advanced b/c of the time frame, but I started getting frusturated b/c I went through several groups of beginners coming into it and the trainer re-teaching them things I'd alreay learned. This shut Boots down like crazy, I didn't even realize that I was letting my annoyance known b/c I didn't want to seem rude to the other people, but my attitude effected him and he wasn't into it for a few months until I got over my attitude problem and we moved into the other time slot where I got to learn new things. Lastly, he may just not be that into it. We have a toller who is extremely capable, has all the training, but no motivation or interest. Every once in a while when I'm working the other dogs at home, he acts like he wants to join in, but I think its more just to piss them off. Agility may not be his cup of tea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Boots Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Whoops, I posted it twice...sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Well, me flame suit tis on....but here goes anyway. I think most ANY dog can be motivated to do agility. This is the voice of someone who ran a dog for quite a few years, who was really NOT motivated. Another who did it just to be with and please me (he was actually better than the other one...). For for Ms. Ho-Hum, I just didn't know HOW to do it. So, it is something that CAN be worked on. It does come naturally to some dogs (esp. the herding breeds) - and they can do repetitions till the cows (or sheep) come home, without getting bored. Others may not be quite that "addicted" - but can still learn how to have fun. I can't possibly describe the process here - but suggest either finding another instructor, attending a local (or not so local...) seminar, and specifically ask about that process. If you let me know where you're located (privately or otherwise), I might be able to suggest someone. Best of luck! diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think most ANY dog can be motivated to do agility. No flaming from me on this - I would agree that most any dog can be motivated to do Agility. For me the bigger question is - "is it worth it to motivate a particular dog to do Agility?" That will depend a lot on the dog, what the handler wants, and the individual situation. Using myself as an example, I don't regret the decision to just let Sammie be a pet and dropping Agility (and other sports) with him. Sure, I could have built his motivation - especially if I had known then what I know now - but he's happy, I have my hands full enough training three other dogs, and I think it was the appropriate decision for him. When it comes down to it, I didn't really want it for him. I guess my question to Mary would be - "Do you want Buddy to like Agility?" If so, it most likely can be done (I'm taking it as a given that he is healthy overall). But if you don't really want it - it's just something to do for you and anything else will do as well . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 thats what Happy is like lol, she does an agililty coarse full of vigor the first time the stuff comes out for the season..she will do it once with the kind of joy you see usually see, after that she is done for the year..she will do it, but there is no spark and she would just rather I leave her alone lol. she is the same with almost all structured activitys, she is like "woohoo!!!....ok im bored go away". the only time she gets exited otherwise is at the oppurtunty to help with something..like she is happy when she feels needed, she is not stupid, she knows darn well that structured classes like obedience and agility are not for my benifit. she is extremly well behaved in everyday life, and preforms perfectly when I actually NEED her too lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herdcentral Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 My young BC started off not enjoying agility. Any repetition and she just checked out, plodded between jumps, any sign she might have not got it right and she would lie down. Runs like a demon on the beach for her ball though. I believe it was a lot to do with me and my handling and my previous experience with only ever having worked with high drive, in your face dogs, who gave me everything they had. My BC is soft and sensitive and very gentle. I persevered because she is my only agility dog. My beautiful, athletic, high drive and super motivated young ACD was diagnosed with mild elbow dysplasia, so I have to stick to obedience with her. So with my BC I have spent the last 6 months just playing ball with her around very short agility squences and reserving the ball for agility. As she has got used to this I started to want fast behaviour for a throw of her ball. The faster and more energetic she became the more I made a big deal of her and the more times I threw her ball. At home at meal times I also set her up in the startline position and play ready, steady, go and if I get to her food first I pick it up. She soon got the idea and was rocketting off the start line. I set up a full course for the first time in 5 months the other day and she flew around. I have noticed if I make handling errors she becomes worried and slows down, so in my first trial for 5 months, in a couple of weeks time, I am going to keep running regardless of what happens and keep her moving . She can get a bit overwhemed at trials and I cant practice for this because I live far from the trialing scene and make a long trip once a month to trial. I have taught her to do a solid nose touch - jumping for my hand, before I throw the ball and now just before I set her up on the start line. She has started to pair agility with ball throwing and hand touches. Probably if my young ACD was not diagnosed with elbow dysplsia I would have given up with my BC, it is so much easier to work with a confident, outgoing dog that absolutely wants to train with me. My ACD would walk over hot coals to work with me. However, you know I have learnt so much with my sweet BC and the more I persevere the more I feel like our relationship and bond is growing. She is starting to get excited about working with me and her focus is starting to develop. We have also started obedience and as she matures and I work with her I feel confident that one day she will shine. If she really doesnt grow to enjoy it , well I will just continue in obedience with my ACD. Que sera sera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted February 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thanks for all the opinions and advice! I guess for me, agility isn't something I really want to do with my dog... it's just a class environment at a level above obedience where Buddy can get some desensitization to noise, dogs, etc.. I have no dreams of competing. I would like to have something my dog loved, but I'm fine if it's not agility. What he does truly love is finding things that I hide. He could play that silly game for hours. So, I'm thinking tracking would be his ideal sport... but there just aren't any opportunities close to me. Maybe we'll just be pet and lady. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 What he does truly love is finding things that I hide. He could play that silly game for hours. If you wanted, you could probably use that to build his enthusiasm for Agility. That's a nice one as far as setting it up to transfer the value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Scott Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 Thanks for all the opinions and advice! I guess for me, agility isn't something I really want to do with my dog... it's just a class environment at a level above obedience where Buddy can get some desensitization to noise, dogs, etc.. I have no dreams of competing. Mary I think you answered your own question...if you don't want to do agility neither will Buddy. That said, my husband's BC Blaze earned his USDAA ADCH and many other agility titles and the only thing he truly loved about agility was his frisbee at the end of a run. His brother Skye loved agility for agility's sake; his favorite reward was to be able to go over another jump! Whatever you decide to do with Buddy (including nothing) will probably be fine with him. Barb S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 No flaming from me on this - I would agree that most any dog can be motivated to do Agility. For me the bigger question is - "is it worth it to motivate a particular dog to do Agility?" That will depend a lot on the dog, what the handler wants, and the individual situation. I was just going to type the same sort of response. So I'll just add, "what she said." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NRhodes Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I would like to have something my dog loved, but I'm fine if it's not agility. What he does truly love is finding things that I hide. He could play that silly game for hours. So, I'm thinking tracking would be his ideal sport... but there just aren't any opportunities close to me. Mary, where do you live? Check for Shutzhund clubs in your area. There are three parts to Shutzhund, obedience, bite work, and tracking. You don't have to do the other two if you don't want and you don't have to compete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soloagility Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 I think you answered your own question...if you don't want to do agility neither will Buddy. That said, my husband's BC Blaze earned his USDAA ADCH and many other agility titles and the only thing he truly loved about agility was his frisbee at the end of a run. His brother Skye loved agility for agility's sake; his favorite reward was to be able to go over another jump! Whatever you decide to do with Buddy (including nothing) will probably be fine with him. Barb S Solo is another dog that loves agility because it involves a reward. He is awesome, fast, and focused, but he really only did it for the chance to chase his ball. I made the decision to stop agility after Solo was attacked and harassed by other dogs at lessons and trials. He started to get very stressed at trials and obviously didn't enjoy them. Solo is just as happy to play fetch at home and to go for hikes in the woods. We still train obedience and silly tricks because he loves to learn, and I'm much happier now that I'm not trying to turn him into something he isn't. Plus, I hate seeing people drag dogs through agility courses at trials when it is so painfully obvious that the dog is not enjoying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barb Scott Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Plus, I hate seeing people drag dogs through agility courses at trials when it is so painfully obvious that the dog is not enjoying it. I know what you mean about dragging dogs thru the course (even off-leash), but I didn't mean that Blaze did courses like that. He had lots of enthusiasm and wasn't coerced; just knew he'd get his frisbee at the end and put in lots of effort to earn it. Barb S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soloagility Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I know what you mean about dragging dogs thru the course (even off-leash), but I didn't mean that Blaze did courses like that. He had lots of enthusiasm and wasn't coerced; just knew he'd get his frisbee at the end and put in lots of effort to earn it. Barb S Yeah, same with Solo! If you watched him run a course you'd think he loved agility more than anything....but he'll do anything with vigor just to get his toys! The dragging dogs through courses comment wasn't directed at you. But it sounds like you've seen it at trials too. I don't know why people insist on forcing their dogs to do agility when it isn't fun for either the dog or the human! Funny that you mention the off-leash thing. At one trial here in Ontario....the judge actually allowed a handler to leash their dog to make it run the course! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herdcentral Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Solo is another dog that loves agility because it involves a reward. He is awesome, fast, and focused, but he really only did it for the chance to chase his ball. I made the decision to stop agility after Solo was attacked and harassed by other dogs at lessons and trials. He started to get very stressed at trials and obviously didn't enjoy them. Goodness, at our trials and classes harassment and attacking by other dogs would be severely frowned upon. My experience with my BC is that my handling and training is probably a lot to do with my BCs lack of enthusiasm, as I have persevered I have discovered a deepening relationship and understanding starting to develop. She has started to want to work with me but I have had to experiment with different things. I have noticed a change in her and she is becoming more prepared to interact with me and push my bossy ACDS out the way to get her share of me. She has also started to get really excited about classes, time will tell and if she really doesnt enjoy it then I agree that there is no point, but I feel her confidence is increasing as I continue to work with her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.