Owning a "working" dog

[haleigh]

Everyone knows not only am I new to border collies, I am new to training, owning a dog (as my own), and I'm pretty young for this major responsibility to be put on my shoulders. This doesn't, however, give people bashing rights to how I raise my dog, and find other ways to insult me.

 

I pride myself on being a quick learner, and I have put all my resources into being able to take care of my dog. I got Joy when I was 13, and I took all the responsibility for her. With the exception of her reactivity to other dogs, she is extremely well rounded, and is one of the best trained dogs I've ever met.

 

I'm not saying where, or mentioning names, but I've recently got into a fight with some older guy (a breeder, to add to the mess) who, to pretty much sum it up, "Im an insolent brat who's ruining border collies because she's not a working dog, and how dare I even attempt to raise such a dog, and she's going to die a failure". There was more, but that was the gist of it.

 

This man didn't mention his views on a working dog. I know from reading and interacting with other people on the board that the general view on a working border collie is having a dog who herds as a "living" be it trials or on a farm. Joy may not be a herding dog, but in my eyes she is a working dog. When I'm not at school, she is working some way or another till the time we go to bed. Either its practicing tracking, obedience training, helping with chores around the house, or her agility. For all this man knew, I could have been disabled in a wheel chair and Joy was my helper. Does that count as owning a working dog?

 

I think of dog breeds like people. You have Africans, Indians, Americans, Mexicans, Japanese, French...etc. and each of them have "jobs" for their specific area. Who are we to say that an Indian woman who is a neurologist isn't a working woman because she isn't selling spices on a street corner?

 

I'm not trying to be stereotypical, but the point I'm trying to make is that herding, tracking, hunting, sending notes to people and other natural or original jobs like that aren't the only jobs a dog can have, and I'm not going to sit back and let someone insult me over something silly like this.

 

ETA: I have issues with spelling stupid words like 'met' instead of 'meant' when I'm ranting, lol

[Lewie'sMom]

Haleigh,

 

Sometimes you have to consider the source and let it roll off your back. With all due respect, some people wouldn’t be happy if they got hung with a new rope.

 

Your postings lead me to believe you are a fine young lady and a dedicated pet owner. Don’t let the opinions of others discourage or make you angry. Just because Joy’s work isn’t herding doesn’t mean you aren’t giving her a wonderfully fulfilled life with plenty of opportunities to learn and thrive. It sounds like you are learning together and having a blast doing it.

 

I say, carry on and pooey to the nay-sayers.

[Root Beer]

I'm not trying to be stereotypical, but the point I'm trying to make is that herding, tracking, hunting, sending notes to people and other natural or original jobs like that aren't the only jobs a dog can have, and I'm not going to sit back and let someone insult me over something silly like this.

 

As you go through life, Haleigh, you are going to find that people will insult you over things you think are silly, or that you truly don't deserve to be insulted over.

 

There are many reasons why people do so. Sometimes they truly are malicious. Sometimes they are passionate about something and truly mean well, but can't see any other way of thinking other than their own. Sometimes they are reacting to a past experience that has made them bitter about something. Sometimes there is a misunderstanding. Etc.

 

And, when it comes to dogs, those of us who are passionate about them tend to have very strong opinions one way or another!

 

What I've learned - in life in general, but especially when it comes to dogs is that:

 

A. I can't control other people's opinions. I can ask to be heard and understood, and some people will chose to listen and understand, but I have no control over how another person thinks.

 

B. If I am doing the very best that I can for my dogs, then nothing that anybody else thinks matters. I am happy to hear suggestions and input from others - particularly those I pay for training advice - but in the end I will choose to do as I see fit for my animals and that is simply that.

 

As to the exact example that you give, nobody in the world has a trademark on the word "work". I use the word, in regard to my dogs, as I see fit, and I have the right to do so. I don't insist that everyone agree, but really what is "work" and what is not is very subjective and depends a lot on specific context. Some would say that my professional job (non dog related) is not "work" since it is not something that people normally get paid to do - but for me it certainly is work! Whose right is it to say? Well, that's between me and my employer. And in the dog context, that is between handler and dog.

 

Have you ever heard the phrase about letting things go like water rolling off a duck's back? It's really hard to do sometimes, but it's an excellent skill to cultivate in oneself.

 

Based on what you say, I would not consider this particular person worth my time. I would let it go and find someone more appropriate to work with. Whoever he is, he's not worth one ounce of worry on your part - you have more important things to do - like work with Joy!

[afrancis]

Haleigh,

I guess I would say that the world is full of people who know better and who are not shy about telling you so. All you can do is, shrug your shoulders, say "Thank you very much for your opinion", give it consideration if consideration is due (trying to separate content from attitude), and then move on. You are the one who knows best what your life is like with Joy, how you have educated yourself so that she is kept happy, healthy and busy; moreover, you are here asking questions and learning, and most of all, you are happy with your own choices.

I think all of us here would agree that a border collie CAN be a very good pet with the right owner, environment and stimulation. Many teenagers your age would not have the same dedication you have to a dog, let alone a very active dog.

I agree its not worth getting worked up about; I would just say "phht" and move on.

Ailsa

[bc4ever]

With all due respect, some people wouldn’t be happy if they got hung with a new rope.

LOL! I never heard that expression, but it sure applies to a lot of people I know! I'm going to have to remember that one!

[haleigh]

Thanks. I guess I was a little too *in the moment* when I posted this. But you're all right. I dedicate myself to my dog, we're both happy, so stuff like this doesn't need to get under my skin.

[painted_ponies]

I'm not saying where, or mentioning names, but I've recently got into a fight with some older guy (a breeder, to add to the mess) who, to pretty much sum it up, "Im an insolent brat who's ruining border collies because she's not a working dog, and how dare I even attempt to raise such a dog, and she's going to die a failure". There was more, but that was the gist of it.

 

Well, of course there is the mature reaction - rising above it and all that.

 

Or you could say "Oh, yeah, old man? Well it's lucky for you she's not working, or we'd be kicking your wrinkly butt all over the trial field!"

 

Of course, when I was a teenager, I'd have taken the high road. *snort* *polishes halo*

[Lenajo]

People can only insult or invade your space if you allow them too.

 

If you ask for an opinion, you somewhat obligate yourself to listen politely to a little of it whether or not you choose to accept it. If its meaninglessly rude you have a right to walk away too! For some reason people think children (and yes, to the old folks you are a kid LOL) need lectures instead of just a normal answer. It the price of age to have to listen to at least some of it. I know... I know!

 

As for opinions, it is mine that comparing human "races" with dog "breeds" is not the best argument. Human races are rarely purpose bred, and when they are it's rarely for useful function...

 

The big "work" definition arguement gets brought to the table because of how people use it to excuse poor breeding decisions. I would agree with you that any job the dog is required to do is "work" to that dog. But use that same definition to breed a litter, and it makes those pro-Border Collie people here want to nail somebody to the er...Boards

 

Because of the confusion, both ignorant and deliberate, the defination of "work" will always get debate. You can learn to be crystal clear in your conversation and avoid the hot buttons, or you can get a thicker skin. It's up to you. I'd definately not lose any sleep over it.

[Anda]

I think you went way to far stereotyping different nationalities and comparing them with dog breeds. I don't care about the rest of the arguments, but reducing an entire nationality to one job is absolutely degrading and imature... Are all Americans working at McDonalds? Are all French people baking baguettes? Just think about what you're saying....

 

P.S. Be careful... I am Romanian... we drink blood for a living, and, btw, garlic won't protect you either

[SoloRiver]

I think of dog breeds like people. You have Africans, Indians, Americans, Mexicans, Japanese, French...etc. and each of them have "jobs" for their specific area.

 

Huh?

 

What Anda said.

[SS Cressa]

I am not sure what was actually said or what was going on and I do agree that the man shouldn't have said

"Im ruining border collies because she's not a working dog, and how dare I even attempt to raise such a dog, and she's going to die a failure"

but using the term working dog for obedience, agility, and depending on the chores around the house(is it more tricks?) isn't correct.

 

working dog

n.

Any of various breeds of dogs developed or trained to do useful work, such as herding animals, pulling wagons or sleds, or guarding property.

http://www.answers.com/topic/working-dog

 

working dog

Function: noun

Date: 1885

: a dog suitable by size, breeding, or training for useful work (as draft or herding) especially as distinguished from one suitable primarily for pet, show, or sporting use

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/working+dog

 

working dog 1

–noun

one of any of several breeds of usually large, powerful dogs originally developed to assist people in their daily work

working dog 2

n. Any of various breeds of dogs developed or trained to do useful work, such as herding animals, pulling wagons or sleds, or guarding property.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/working+dog&

 

While I am not saying you don't work your dog in agility or obedience or tracking to label your dog as a working dog isn't accurate.

When I talk to other people about my dogs and what I do. I tell them I train them in agility and obedience or whatever.

 

If I got a pup from working parents I would be expecting the pup's parent to actually be herding livestock and would be extremely upset if I found out the breeder meant agility/tricks/and or obedience. Or if I was a breeder and a potential buyer told me that the pup was going to a working home and found out the pup went to an agility home I would be furious. but maybe that is just me!

Stella

 

eta:spelling: suck at spelling

[DeltaBluez Tess]

>>>I think of dog breeds like people. You have Africans, Indians, Americans, Mexicans, Japanese, French...etc. and each of them have "jobs" for their specific area. Who are we to say that an Indian woman who is a neurologist isn't a working woman because she isn't selling spices on a street corner?<<<<

 

 

Japanese....ok so I am half Japanese...please tell me what "jobs" should I be doing because I want to make sure the job that I am doing now is the *right job*.....

 

 

Diane~

[Root Beer]

If I got a pup from working parents I would be expecting the pup's parent to actually be herding livestock and would be extremely upset if I found out the breeder meant agility/tricks/and or obedience. Or if I was a breeder and a potential buyer told me that the pup was going to a working home and found out the pup went to an agility home I would be furious. but maybe that is just me!

 

In that context, I would expect the same thing - that the parents would be a active workers in whatever the "official" purpose of the breed might be.

 

A prudent breeder would get clarification on the "work" that the buyer had in mind for the dog.

 

That said, if I say that I am going to go home and "work" with my dogs, there won't be livestock involved since raising and caring for livestock is not my chosen work. New context here and this is where the definition shifts. When I work with my dogs, I am working with them on skills that they need to perform competently in the disciplines that I have chosen. Whether or not those disciplines qualify as "work" or not to another individual is quite subjective.

 

I wouldn't tell a Border Collie breeder that I was a "working home" - I would be clear about my plans for the dog. That said, the training that I undertake with my dogs is certainly "a work" to me. A labor of love, certainly, but much more to me than a hobby or pastime.

[stockdogranch]

Japanese....ok so I am half Japanese...please tell me what "jobs" should I be doing because I want to make sure the job that I am doing now is the *right job*.....

 

Well, duh--making sushi, of course!

 

A

 

I'm a total mix--not sure what I should be doing...

[SS Cressa]

That said, if I say that I am going to go home and "work" with my dogs, there won't be livestock involved since raising and caring for livestock is not my chosen work. New context here and this is where the definition shifts. When I work with my dogs, I am working with them on skills that they need to perform competently in the disciplines that I have chosen. Whether or not those disciplines qualify as "work" or not is quite subjective.

 

I wouldn't tell a Border Collie breeder that I was a "working home" - I would be clear about my plans for the dog. That said, the training that I undertake with my dogs is certainly "a work" to me. A labor of love, certainly, but much more to me than a hobby or pastime.

 

You missed what I said right above that!

 

While I am not saying you don't work your dog in agility or obedience or tracking to label your dog as a working dog isn't accurate.

[Root Beer]

You missed what I said right above that!

 

No, I didn't miss it. I was just throwing my 25 cents in!

[stockdogranch]

if I say that I am going to go home and "work" with my dogs

[emphasis mine]

 

Ahh, but the difference is in the preposition *with*--I would assume that could mean any type of training (here, *work* is an intransitive verb). But to *work* a dog (no preposition; here, *work* is a transitive verb), at least in the context of a BC board, usually refers to livestock,

 

A

[SS Cressa]

I was just throwing my 25 cents in!

 

WOW You went up in price!!!

[Root Beer]

[emphasis mine]

 

Ahh, but the difference is in the preposition *with*--I would assume that could mean any type of training (here, *work* is an intransitive verb). But to *work* a dog (no preposition; here, *work* is a transitive verb), at least in the context of a BC board, usually refers to livestock,

 

A

 

True. And in the context of the BC board, I wouldn't say "work my dog" due to clarity since I know that for most of you that has a specific meaning.

 

In other situations, though, I might say "work my dog". I might say "I worked Dean on weave poles", for instance, to Agility folks. Or, "I worked Speedy with distractions" to Freestyle people.

 

But here I would be more clear to avoid confusion, hence the "with".

[DeltaBluez Tess]

>>>Well, duh--making sushi, of course!<<

 

I can't make decent sushi at all. My mom, on the other hand, can put the sushi chefs to shame.

 

I do make good Asian food and now good Southern food.

 

BTW.....I am an Electrical Engineer for the FAA

 

Diane

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

Dont feel bad some older gentleman told my mom at sheepy hollow Meaning Dal "in my day we used to hit dogs like that over the head".

 

You have to learn to take things with a grain of salt. You cant please everyone esp at a young age. People will dimish you and not think twice about it because they are your elder.

[Lenajo]

Dont feel bad some older gentleman told my mom at sheepy hollow Meaning Dal "in my day we used to hit dogs like that over the head".

 

ok, really...I'd have to start laughing at somebody who said that to me. I'd probably bust a gut. And I probably would have answered "yeah, well back in that day we used to shoot people on the spot for mouthing off like you."

 

otoh...if the dog was making a ruckus so that some old hat noticed I bet your Mom got the rather sharp point. That's the nice thing about open trials. Unvanished truth,and high expectations....

[Elizabeth77]

My ideal picture of Meg is seeing her flying around a field doing a wonderful job herding and then trotting back to me and sitting at my side looking up adoringly at me!!!!

Back to reality. Nothing to herd. But a huge field yes. So we walk around it most mornings.Meg prances and runs around the straw raising rats, killed her first yesterday, and obviously has a great time. Then she may be indoors for a while with me, no interest going out alone. In the afternoon off to the beach and much stone throwing and paddling followed by a 2 mile walk on the lead. That is roughly our schedule. Not all three activities every day but most days. So nobody could call it a 'working ' day but certainly a very active one.

[AllieMackie]

Not to stem back to the whole basic politics of owning a working dog, because we've been around that track countless times and we're mostly on the same page.

 

I think everyone on this forum agrees that as long as we, as dog lovers who adore border collies, promote good BREEDING practices in terms of working ability, but don't see any sort of issue with a dog being raised to do something other than work livestock.

 

No one can deny the versatility of the border collie; they excel in dog sports, and many are making leaps and bounds as service/SnR dogs. I myself will be doing agility and hobby herding with my guy, but that didn't mean I went to a breeder that bred agility dogs. I went to a working dog breeder.

 

Like everyone else said, take what people say with a grain of salt. I know it can hurt, I take a lot of criticisms to heart, which I shouldn't. Everyone here knows, from what we read, that you're doing a good job with Joy, so keep it up.

[storminthenight]

I think of dog breeds like people. You have Africans, Indians, Americans, Mexicans, Japanese, French...etc. and each of them have "jobs" for their specific area. Who are we to say that an Indian woman who is a neurologist isn't a working woman because she isn't selling spices on a street corner?

 

I think what she was trying to say with this statement, is that a person can do whatever they like no whatter what there nationality, but that some people have the idea that just because your say, Indian, you should be selling spices.

A BC can do a variety of different things, and so can people, just because you come from America doesnt mean you have to work at Mcdonalds and just because a dog happens to be a border collie doesnt meen it has to be herding to be a useful, working dog.

 

not trying to argue or cause any trouble, I just wanted to share how I interpreted her post

I myself being a younger border collie owner (19 and in college) think its great that you do such a great job with your dog, and as long as he/she is healthy and happy then who cares if she is herding, she doesnt need to herd to be a best friend or be a great agility dog.

I know I used to let some peoples opinions get to me, but ive just learned that everyone has there own opinion and you have to take each one as it comes, some are there to be helpful and others, well I have no clue what there motives are, lol.