shelb'smum Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 hmmm i think that if the farmer were avoiding me, i would go ahead and sneak a few of them off the farm, as they are getting to a wondering age Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firchow Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by shelb'smum:hmmm i think that if the farmer were avoiding me, i would go ahead and sneak a few of them off the farm, as they are getting to a wondering age Just to satisfy my curiosity: Are you suggesting that the OP trespass and commit theft, shelb'smum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firchow Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Whoops - double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelb'smum Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 oh no never! I am suggesting that the puppies wonder away from the farm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firchow Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by shelb'smum:oh no never! I am suggesting that the puppies wonder away from the farm! Simply astounding. I guess I was confused by:  ".....i would go ahead and sneak a few of them off the farm...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I have a goat that "wandered off the farm, presumably picked up on the road or hit by car" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelb'smum Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Firchow, what I am saying is if I felt that the puppies were in any danger, and there really was nothing animal control could/would do, I would see to it that there happend to be a way for the puppies to wonder off the farm. I am not suggesting that anybody steal for the sake of just having puppies, I am saying that if the NEED presents its self, I would do WHATEVER I COULD to help the poor pups Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firchow Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 Originally posted by shelb'smum:Firchow, what I am saying is if I felt that the puppies were in any danger, and there really was nothing animal control could/would do, I would see to it that there happend to be a way for the puppies to wonder off the farm. I am not suggesting that anybody steal for the sake of just having puppies, I am saying that if the NEED presents its self, I would do WHATEVER I COULD to help the poor pups Never did I say you would steal the puppies for the sake of having puppies. Definitions of "danger" differ. But you have answered my question which was:  "Are you suggesting that the OP trespass and commit theft...."  Thanks.  Glenn Firchow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelb'smum Posted December 8, 2006 Report Share Posted December 8, 2006 I should learn to keep my trap shut sometimes or even word what I mean better!but Firchow, thank you for showing some concern when you thought/think? that I would suggest trespassing and theft. I do believe that there is black, white and gray. some things are deff. wrong to do, some things are right to do and sometimes its a little hazy which action is right or wrong, and in the case of these puppies I would say its a little hazy. please don't take anything I say for too much as I am very opionated and loud mouthd. (gee and I wonder why people really don't get along with me ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firchow Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Originally posted by shelb'smum:.....some things are right to do and sometimes its a little hazy which action is right or wrong, and in the case of these puppies I would say its a little hazy. Haze or not, theft is theft. Glenn Firchow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 To take without permission for ones own gain or comfort, is indeed theft. This would be rescue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Originally posted by Dixie_Girl:To take without permission for ones own gain or comfort, is indeed theft. This would be rescue. I would have to disagree. Its theft. If the pups need rescuing, there are legal ways to get them help.There are animal rights activists who have strange ideas about what is abuse/neglect/exploitation of animals. To some, dogs shouldn't be used for work (herding, service dogs, SAR, and therapy dogs would all be included). To say that its ok in the case of these pups because its rescue would open the door to others whose idea of abuse is rather extreme. I wouldn't want someone to steal my dog because they decided that he was being abused or neglected. Its never ok to steal a dog. We may not always like the way Animal Control (or whatever agency has jurisdiction) works, but we should keep in mind that what they do protects us and our dogs as well as those animals that are truly in need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 If I remember right, this was the man that didn't even want these puppies! He offered to drown them..did he not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alicia Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Originally posted by Genie: quote:Originally posted by Dixie_Girl: To take without permission for ones own gain or comfort, is indeed theft. This would be rescue. I would have to disagree. Its theft. If the pups need rescuing, there are legal ways to get them help.There are animal rights activists who have strange ideas about what is abuse/neglect/exploitation of animals. To some, dogs shouldn't be used for work (herding, service dogs, SAR, and therapy dogs would all be included). To say that its ok in the case of these pups because its rescue would open the door to others whose idea of abuse is rather extreme. I wouldn't want someone to steal my dog because they decided that he was being abused or neglected. Its never ok to steal a dog. We may not always like the way Animal Control (or whatever agency has jurisdiction) works, but we should keep in mind that what they do protects us and our dogs as well as those animals that are truly in need. Honestly Genie, it is REALLY difficult in most areas to get any action in severe neglect/abuse cases let alone borderline ones such as this from Animal Control, RSPCA, ASPCA, Or any other organization. Â Here is my case, I did steal a goat, however, I found her to be in a serious situation seeing as her two buddies died of preventable conditions and she was wandering around along the side of a busy road/highway and had no access to anything but the grass along the highway. The Animal Control had already been called on this and the worst they could do was impound if I brought them the goat and then charge a fine to the owner for the animal being loose upon which the animal would be returned with no other conditions. I considered this a serious situation in which no action would have taken place in time, I now have the goat who is happy, vaccinated and loving and was once skittish, had 6inch long hooves and was roaming a highway. Â Call it theft, as it sure is, but I consider it a desperate rescue mission. Â Now these pups, if being properly cared for, may not need to be removed. But... the man did intend on drowning them...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Debatable Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Originally posted by Beth G:If I remember right, this was the man that didn't even want these puppies! He offered to drown them..did he not? Are we the thought police now? Mind readers? Â I've spent decades teaching (in public and private schools) and it's occurred to me, oh, a few thousand times that I would make an infinitely better parent that some of the amazing folks I've met during conferences and back-to-school nights. Â That doesn't give me the right to take their children away and call it "rescue" instead of kidnapping. Â The old farmer might not live up to your rigorous standards when it comes to dog care. For that matter, what you consider excellent care might not pass muster with me. But that doesn't give me the right to steal your dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mado Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Hello rescuer ! I had a similar situation with my pup born in a farm here . It may now be a case of farmer sees how keen you are and thinks sterling pounds . First he lost his dog for more than a week , then didn't know she was pregnant , then threatens with drowning them ...relents and allows you on his farm to care of the pups ... These old farmers are not always the soul of compassion , plus they have a totally different vision of dogs and people and the whole world . So , what can be done ? The Crying bit was funny , or you can try plain old seduction (your gf I mean) but I'm not too sure Sneaking in and kidnapping isn't as bad as it sounds but could get you into a lot of trouble , and the law is with him , not you . A lump sum for the pups might do the trick , more impressive than a little something for each pup ,then you ask the other adopters to chip in . Get someone new to deal with the old chap , you're way too involved already and he probably doesn't feel too happy about the whole thing . A friend or acquaintance who can act as intermediate, do the business bit with diplomacy , take off with the pups , redistribute them and end of story , no need for moral judgements you're only doing your best . I just noticed the date on your last post , this whole thing might be over by now ...good luck anyway . PS I am NOT suggesting that the farmer is not humane or is plain greedy , matter of fact I usually like the Welsh farmer mentality , but I suppose by now he's fed up with the whole business , can't say yes or no to anything anymore , feels harrassed and doesn't want to yield , so diplomatic grease would help both ways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RescuedPups Posted December 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Hi guys,  NOW THAT SPARKED A 'LIVELY' debate... i managed a mix fo the above, i did a bit of background research on the farmer,and found he had a brother, i spent a looong time trying to find trhe guy, and it paid off, (the brother is a bit younger and a really nice guy) he was pretty horrified about what was going on, and this morningi went up with him to teh farm (and after a blazing row between the brothers) - it was in welsh so dont actually know what was said, the farmer agreed to ?100 for 5 pups (one unfortunately has 'disappeared'- he thinks it wandered off and it was the runt so unfortunatly i fear it has died.  Am collecting the pups on monday, and four now have homes lined up (2 of the people originally meant to take pups off me have adopted other rescues as it seemed unlikely we would get them)  So will hopefully start a new Post with pictures etc on monday, along with asking advice for house training a collie pup  Thanks loads to everyone!  Jason, Nadia and Gypsy too!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Thank you for caring and for seeing this through to what appears will be a happy ending for most of these pups. If only more people were like you... Â Very best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra s. Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 That's great that you got them out of there!!! The farmers round here are the same, and I would never have managed to persuade one of them (ok, with money, maybe...). Â Good luck with all of them and especially with the one you'll be keeping! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal & Mad's Mom Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 I think what is comes down to with some people is something has no value uless a person shows interest in it. Then they will look for money for it. My opinion is that he realized they had a value and I wouldnt fret the runt either because I bet he sold it. Â Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelb'smum Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 that is so good to hear!! and I am SO sorry for starting up a debate!! :eek: :eek: :eek: Can't wait to see pictures! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Not sure why what I said would make anyone angry...lol. Just stating the obvious- he DID indeed want to drown them. Â For goodness sakes, I never said to steal them. Â Personally, my way of dealing with it/people like that (whether anyone likes it or not) is to offer to buy a dog in need of rescue. Â Money does talk. Especially to the greedy. And anyone who treats their dog like that usually doesn't care about them(although some honestly do because they just don't know better). Â And for the former money usually seems more appealing than holding on to the dog they usually view as a nuisence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelb'smum Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 no beth I said steal... Opps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth G Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Yeah but I got quoted like I said steal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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