nancy Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 I took my granddaughters to the Art Museum today. And they took me out to see the big stuff outside on the trail. We met a woman with two leashed dogs: a beagle type and a border collie type. I asked if they were friendly. She said the beagle was, and let him schmooze with the girls. But she kept the other by her side and said, "He's fear aggressive; all border collies are." I expressed my surprise and disbelief. After all, my BC-mix is certainly not, And I've been to three NC-BC picnics and been surrounded by about 30 border collies who weren't. She, basically, told me I'm wrong and rather stupid. Three trainers, several vets, and the people at the SPCA where she volunteers have all told her that border collies are, by nature, fear aggressive. I shrugged and recommended that she come here to see if anyone could offer her any suggestions. She allowed as how the dog is 10, too old to change, and she knows that, as this is his breed's nature, there's nothing that will help anyhow. Opinions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Uh, my opinion is that the woman is an idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 LOL Laura I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet_ceana Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 I could see unknowledgable(sp?- long day) people getting confused when a dog is reactive to motion and possibly thinking it was aggression, but vets? Ehh, anyone who generalizes usually doesn't know much about what they are talking about in the first place. LOL especially when they infer that you are an idot, that just proves they do not know anymore and wish to leave the conversation while they think they still have some pride left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 "He's fear aggressive; all border collies are." I'm glad JJ & Jake didn't get the memo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painted_ponies Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 I expressed my surprise and disbelief. After all, my BC-mix is certainly not, And I've been to three NC-BC picnics and been surrounded by about 30 border collies who weren't. Yeah, I can't imagine anyone describing that gang as "fear aggressive." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggzmom Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 She, basically, told me I'm wrong and rather stupid. Three trainers, several vets, and the people at the SPCA where she volunteers have all told her that border collies are, by nature, fear aggressive. Opinions? One of my BC's recently passed his Delta Society Pet Partner evaluation with very nice comments about his temperment.....Guess the evaluators could have been wrong.... Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Just went to the Wine Country Trials, got to meet several dogs I'd never seen before. They were all friendly, outgoing beasties. They sure looked like border collies, maybe they were wearing costumes Ruth n the BC3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haleigh Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 Hmmm...I guess I was extremely wrong to let my fear aggressive border collie around toddlers and young children... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda-pop Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 How profoundly sad. She'll probably go on to own more BC's and allow them/let them be fearful rather than socializing them correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 ^^What Paige said. My border collie couldn't be more well-adjusted and he's never met a dog or person he didn't like. People are idiots and too bad this one is going around spreading her bullsh!t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silhouettestable Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Yeah mine are aggressive too. With their tongues and hugs No one gets past my front door without being properly "attacked" and initiated to the rules of our house (visitors are allowed but must love on the dogs ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat W. Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Now I know what Whim is doing he's defending himself with his tounge while attempting -rather successfully - to drown me in kisses! The woman trancends the word IDIOT and goes right on to MORON... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 If fear aggressive means peeing on a stranger's foot out of the shear excitement of seeing a new person that he's never seen before, then yeah, I guess my bc is fear aggressive. Assault with urine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Assault with urine. Ok, that just about made me spit out my Diet Pepsi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carson Crazies Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 I don't think she's an idiot - rather misinformed or possibly uneducated, and most likely at this point she's held to that credo for so long she's unlikely to be looking to change her mind. My guess would be that after hearing that confirmed it never occurred to her to look any deeper - and it's easier to just make that one's mantra, rather than actually DO something about it, right? I'm surprised that people in authority type positions are perpetuating this though. The problem, as I see it, is this type of labeling has offered her (and people LIKE her) the opportunity to NOT do anything about it. Poor dog. Hopefully she'll take the opportunity to try to learn more about border collies, because certainly all border collies are not fear aggressive. The majority of the ones I've met, in fact, have been quite pleasant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 I don't think "I'M DEAN! I LOVE YOU!" got this memo, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 You're a nicer person than me, Laura. (but we already knew that ) I have no patience for people who can't be bothered to learn more about the breed they've actually owned for 10 years. It's bad enough that people who never owned a particular breed perpetuate sterotypes and misconception (for example, pit bulls), but to spread misconceptions about a breed of dog they OWN without ever bothering to find out otherwise, I think, is idiotic. But then again, if she *truly* was told this by three trainers and several vets, I guess she figured she had heard it on good authority. So, maybe I'm being harsh, maybe not. *shrug* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurae Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 The lack of critical thinking skills exhibited by some people never ceases to truly amaze me. Do you think she really was told this by several vets, trainers, etc.? Perhaps they used big words that she didn't understand and so she clings to this belief instead, because it certainly is easier to give up on a dog than put any work into him or her. Sorry, I don't seem to have a lot of patience today... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaryP Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 I think that there are a lot of trainers, and some uninformed vets, who will tell you that all bc's are crazy, which also bugs me. If you're a trainer or a vet, you should know better than to generalize about a breed. Most of the agility instructors around here are, strangely, are not bc people. Every single one of them has said something like this to me at one time or another. I also had one tell me that all ACD's are stupid, that's why they herd cattle. I guess she'd never seen Skidboot and I guess she doesn't think you need brains to be a good cattle dog. But, I digress. This woman was probably told something like, "border collies can tend to be fearful and that can lead to fear aggression" (which I also think is overgeneralizing about a breed, BTW) and she oversimplified that to say that ALL bc's are fear aggressive. I mean, why would anyone ever get a breed of dog that they KNOW will be fear aggressive because it is an innate trait of the breed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted April 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Thanks y'all (see, I've become Southern). This idiot also has an Aussie. Which is bad but not to the degree of the BC-mix. AARGH!!! This afternoon, at another museum, after a morning hike (gotta love school vacations), I told the grandgirls what I've gotten here. Even the about-to-be-6 one just smiled and said, "Of course." BTW, my dangerous BC-mix was wedged, in her harness-seatbelt, between the older girl in her seatbelt and the younger one in her booster seat to and from our hike. She was in hog heaven - getting so much attention from both sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaporflowers Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 I agree with Mary. Perhaps the "experts" she consulted made generalizations about the breed, and she took it and ran with it. i.e.- Border collies can be sensitive, startle at loud noises, react to movement, etc = All border collies are fear aggressive. Many of the vets, trainers, and techs I work with make breed generalizations frequently. German Shepherds can be reactive with restraint, bully breeds and terriers may not like other dogs, Chihuahuas hate everyone but their owners... The list goes on. Maybe we really should be more careful with the things we say about breeds and genetic propensities. Some people interpret them incorrectly and share their gospel. That being said, I do think socialization is more important in the Border Collie than other breeds that are sometimes "easier keepers" and owners get away with giving their dogs a sheltered life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 tell that to my 2 aggressive BC's that totally HATE children- LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theshine Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Shiner's about the least aggressive dog I've ever known, that's a really weird thing for her to have said. I get my fair share of people who, out of nowhere, feel like informing me of things too though. Most recently, a stranger on the street stopped me and randomly said to me, "You need to give that dog a job to do", followed by, "That color is called merle". K - thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Well - personally let the woman believe what she wants - she will most likely never buy another bc and won't recommend to her friends about owning one. She will be the type that may actually tell people that a bc is not for them unless they want - obsessive, fear aggressive, etc... Her lack of knowledge could be a good thing but I hate when people use that as an excuse not to work with their dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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