FoxgloveBC Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I hear this punish the deed not the breed sort of thing CONSTANTLY... but to be honest.. IMO the breed can be a problem!!! They are bred to be what they are, and what they are capable of doing. Yes people are morons and let their bully breeds run wild and since they are what they are... they can be quick to cause problems if they are not with a responsible owner! The problem is stupid people think they are "bad asses" with these bully breeds and they let them act like "bad ass" dogs. I know this is not the greatest thing to say, but I really am not a very big fan of bully breeds. I also live in an area that has a huge hispanic population.. that thinks that they are the most "bad ass" if they have the largest pit bull on a huge chain and a collar with the largest spikes...... My whole opinion is that only certain people who can become qualified should be allowed to own bully breeds. They should go through some sort of procedure or something.. that might help weed out the "bad asses." I sure hope poor Sage gets through this okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
painted_ponies Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Not as much as you would think. I was almost killed, choked to death, at the hands of an ex-boyfriend and because he didn't break any bones they couldn't charge him with very much. It is how the law is written. But if he had used a weapon then they could have charged him with me, but the law doesn't consider hands as a weapon. Kathy Wow, laws in your state are different from mine. In SC, a man can be charged with assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature (ABHAN) for assaulting a woman, whether or not he seriously injures her. The aggravating circumstance is the difference between the sexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clara Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I hope this is useful to those of you who have had bad experiences with loose dogs attacking or rushing your dogs on leash. I do think it's important to be able to prevent this kind of attack and I agree with Bustopher on not using pepper spray. Dog Repellant In an obedience class I watched our instructor use it on a giant schnauzer (with some aggression issues) who slipped the lead and was going for another dog across the room. It didn't hurt the dog, but he turned right around and ran back toward his owner. I have a bottle that clips on my waistband and carry it whenever I walk my dogs on lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha J Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I missed this thread, i am so sorry for poor Sage Liz and you. That sounds like an awful experience. It is why i feel much happier walking my dog when i am with someone else. When i am alone i am on radar for any dogs approaching. I honestly don't know how i would cope if one attacked any of my two. It scares me the thought of it happening, with my previous dog i could pick her up so it is totally different now having bigger dogs. Anyway i am glad that it didn't turn out to be more serious but even so it must have been so scary for you both. I won't comment on anything else, i have only just skimmed the thread but i see you have had heaps of advice already. I just wanted to let you know that you and Sage will be in my thoughts and i hope that it doesn't have a lasting effect on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I'm so sorry about what happened to Sage. I hope there aren't any lasting serious effects. That must've been scary for both of you. However, I also have to say thanks to Lenajo for her posts. I hate to see any dog attack story start down the slippery slope to BSL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millie&MeBC Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I'm so sorry for what happened, Liz. Wishing you and Sage the best. And as for the other thing that was brought up, punish the deed, not the breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I myself have a terrible fear of meeting a bully breed that's not leashed. My dog is reactive, especially on leash, and he's likely to instigate a fight while trying to scare off another dog. If the wrong dog decides to take Buddy's challenge, he could easily get his neck broken. But... I have no problem ever with dogs on leash, or well-trained dogs who are under their owner's control. And one of Buddy's worst fights was with a Weimeraner, which I don't think falls on anyone's list as a "dangerous breed." Every time I think this through to its logical conclusion, I realize that it's idiot owners of ANY dog who infuriate me. It doesn't matter if a dog is friendly but stupid or if a dog is potentially aggressive: he shouldn't be CHARGING at anyone. You'd think all adults in our litigious society would understand that principle. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Wow, am I the only one depressed by FoxgloveBC's entire post? I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Wow, am I the only one depressed by FoxgloveBC's entire post? I hope not. Well, I'm not really depressed by it. It's just a reality. I also live in the same sort of urban area where PBs and other "bad" looking dogs are widely purchased by young, macho, "gangsta" type guys as a statement about the size of their oosiks. If you go downtown where I live, you see a whole lot of early-20s, testosterone-overdosed idiots swaggering around with their pit bulls on giant chains. Then, if you go to the shelter near me, you see the dogs 12 months or 24 months later, often covered with scars and scared out of their minds. What a pit bull represents where I live is probably quite different from what it represents in rural Oklahoma, or in sheep-herding Britain. I know that owners are responsible for their dogs, but unfortunately, there is a very specific culture in some urban areas that creates a problem centered around the bully breeds. Combine an ignorant, macho culture with a group of dogs bred to fight and trouble is bound to result. Alas, there's no way the ACLU would allow ISL (idiot-specific legislation) that safely pens up grown men with pinhead brains. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 It's not the reality that depresses me, it's the anti-breed bigotry and the racism. But oh well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxgloveBC Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I was not being racist at all.. i stated hispanic population. I did not use any derogatory names. I live south of Houston TX and I was a minority in my high school when I went there. We have a lot of "thug gangsta" wannabes who think pit bulls or other "bad" looking breeds are just an accessory. Just like some of the crazy people who wont let their Chihuahuas on the grass because they always have to be in a purse. Pit bulls and those sort of breeds are a major problem here! They sell them on the side of the roads, in the newspaper, and they are not even really up to breed standard..they are grossly too big and it is extremely sad. What is worse is these dogs are very capable of doing damage to other people and animals and they have fallen into the wrong hands because of how they look and the potential they have to be deadly. Sorry to have stepped on any toes, but that is definitely what it is like here and it really has made me have a bad opinion against bully breeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I have to agree with Melanie, this entire thread is peppered with some of the most ridiculous and stunningly prejudiced statements I've read in quite awhile. BSL is such a pathetic bandaid for a serious problem and I feel awful for the breed, never mind the entire race that is being condemned alongside the bully breeds. Sad. Sara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Wow, am I the only one depressed by FoxgloveBC's entire post? I hope not. Melanie, nope you certainly aren't. In fact I was dismayed. But since I seem to get really caught up and emotional in certain debates here (BSL being one of them), I just didn't have it in me today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Being Hispanic myself it's not surprising but a little discouraging. It's hard to convince people who are mostly exposed to the uglier side of the culture/breed, that Hispanics aren't the source of machismo in modern society any more than the majority of aggressive dog incidents are actually truly breed-related. The two notions seem related to me - but maybe I'm just oversensitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Debatable Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 It's not the reality that depresses me, it's the anti-breed bigotry and the racism. maybe I'm just oversensitive. Nah. Luisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well, I'm baffled as to what the ethnicity of a dog's owner has to do with whether it is a breed that should be regulated or avoided. It's hard enough for me to understand why the bad acts of an individual dog should be generalized to discredit its breed as a whole, but I don't even know what to make of the idea that the nationality or ethnic descent of its owner has any relevance to the issue at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyoBC Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well, I'm baffled as to what the ethnicity of a dog's owner has to do with whether it is a breed that should be regulated or avoided. It's hard enough for me to understand why the bad acts of an individual dog should be generalized to discredit its breed as a whole, but I don't even know what to make of the idea that the nationality or ethnic descent of its owner has any relevance to the issue at all. I agree. If it were that way would Border Collie owners have to live on a farm with stock? Husky owners run sled races in Alaska? Lab owners hunt? I can go on and on but the point is that the owners background doesn't mean anything as to what dog they should own. It comes down to stupid owners not taking care of their animals when they are around other dogs. Which is what this post started as in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dogslater Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 It's not the reality that depresses me, it's the anti-breed bigotry and the racism. Ditto. We deal with BSL where I live and if you think that banning a breed is going to solve the problem of idiot dog owners you're in for a nasty surprise. So you ban "pit bulls" and what do you think will happen? Those owners will suddenly wake up and realize that they had their dog for all the wrong reasons and they will instead become responsible owners of a speutered lab or beagle? Nope, they'll move on to the next tough breed of dog. We're already seeing it here and instead of 40-50lb pitties who are generally super friendly to people, they're getting Filas, Presas and the like, or they are crossing guardian breeds with bull breeds and you're getting the guarding and human aggression issues from the mastiffs, as well as the dog aggression from the pitties, all wrapped up together in a dog who probably weighs as much as you do. BSL is akin to banning white males because most serial killers are white males. Foxglove - just because you don't use a derogatory word for a particular race doesn't make your comments any less offensive. All caucasians are short-sighted idiots who support bsl in a knee-jerk reaction because they are too dumb to realize that won't fix the problem. Clearly not racist at all...caucasian is a perfectly reasonable term for whites Dana (half asian, so I only eat dogs half the time) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxgloveBC Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 this is the last thing I will say on this thread. I did not state ALL or ONLY, I was just stating that HERE it is a problem with that certain culture. I guess I should have worded it a little more specific. Yes there are all sorts of people that cause the problem with dog fighting and being irresponsible. I was just stating of the certain problem in my local area. I am sorry for the offensive post, I just was being up front about the problems I have to deal with with vicious dogs and ignorant owners as I to deal with a lot of Rabies Obs cases. Again I am sorry for stepping on toes, as I was not meaning my post in a derogatory manner, just venting about the problems I deal with as well. I have no problems with different races of people, I do have a problem with ignorant dog owners who want a dog just to be "cool" though. Being run down by one of these dogs and their "thug" owners who refuse to apologize because they thought their dog should act that way is enough to have hard feelings for a bit. I have not just been stereotyping, just seen it and experienced this first hand and I guess I can be a bit touchy about it still. Please forgive me of my hard feelings. So for another time, I am sorry. I will not post anymore on this thread. I do hope to hear updates on Sage and that he will get through this ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I can understand your feelings foxglove, having grown up in a difficult part of Los Angels. It IS typical for certain racial people (not mentioning what race) to tend to have bully breeds. That is NOT the case on these caring boards. You would probably have to go to craigslist to find destructive dogs for sale. I'm sorry. I, myself am mostly polish- hey- live with those jokes. LOL. I feel a pit deserves a good breeding, a good owner, and a great responsibility. They were once bred for fighting. Many people that were NOT aware have taken this breed to the fullest- just watch animal planet. Check craigslist. There are so many up for adoption. I have seen so many pits raised and trained by responsible owners. They are wonderful dogs Once rotties were considered dangerous. Now they are a great breed, due to responsible breeders and owners. It IS the owner and the breeder that makes the breed the best they can be. Just like the border collie. We all spay and neuter our non-working dogs. We try and do what's right by our breed. That doesn't mean "Joe Blow" next door thinks his great attack dog would be great attacking another dog and would breed to that dog. Unfortunately, this happens. With every breed. I think the point to this thread is to educate people, no mind the color of the person, the religion, any other factors, that breeding should be left up to the "few" responsible owners- rather they own the Dam OR the sire. Both are responsible for the litter. Unfortunately for Liz, her dog was attacked for no reason. Her dog was on lead, the other dog was not. It's purely a simple win/win situation IF she can now find the owner. That's the problem. Leash law. When I take mine to the park 2 doors down, they are always on leash- I don't hang onto them. How can you play with a 6 foot leash? But the leash remains and the have an excellent "lie down" we practice every day. ALL the time. Part of the game. Not many owners do that. US here on the board are exceptional owners. I have to say or we would be drinking a beer watching tv instead of posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote[it's not the reality that depresses me, it's the anti-breed bigotry and the racism. Being Hispanic myself it's not surprising but a little discouraging. It's hard to convince people who are mostly exposed to the uglier side of the culture/breed, that Hispanics aren't the source of machismo in modern society any more than the majority of aggressive dog incidents are actually truly breed-related. The two notions seem related to me - but maybe I'm just oversensitive. No - not at all. I think that in any urban center at any point in time over history, the dynamics have been about the same. For a while, the Irish were blamed for all urban problems. Then the Italians. Seems as though any relatively new immigrant group with a high population gets the same reception from the old, established groups. I think socioeconomics have as much to do with it as anything. My 3rd generation Mexican-American friend wouldn't talk to or associate with "Mexicans" (1st generation immigrants) in high school. Her family had fully assimilated into suburbia at that point, and my friend didn't see herself as being in any way connected to the culture of the newer immigrants. What I see around here is that the macho idiocy centers around three main things: young, male, and "thug culture." Certainly, in the city where I live, those three factors cross all the ethnic lines. We've got idiot thugs from the white population, hispanic population, and African American population. Lots of young guys from all backgrounds are "wanna-bes." Heck, in the town where I grew up, which was - how do we say? - not diverse, we had the same jerky thugs hanging out on street corners - they just all had pale skin. Unfortunately, bully dogs are now a part of the thug culture, which deliberately uses them to produce fear in people. That IS the truth where I live and in other urban areas. I could very carefully not mention that very politically incorrect truth - but it wouldn't change the truth, which in large part is fueling people's drive toward BSL. Again, I don't know how you change the culture that's creating the fear. And yes, yes, yes, I get that BSL is not the answer. I just think it's important that the whole picture be viewed. The people who are advocating BSL are not (as we are) dog-lovers operating from a philosophical high ground of "what's best for all dogs." Not listening to the viewpoints of the people who are, maybe, scared into supporting BSL doesn't help any of us make the argument against BSL. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Every morning for a few years now, I drive by a black gentleman walking his pit bull. Every morning, religiously, he walks his old Pit. This dog is really getting along in years, and has a hitch in his gitalong. No matter the weather, they go for their morning constitutional, and sometimes on weekends, the wife or girlfriend? walks with them. I almost stopped today and told them how nice it was to see them every morning. Not because of the man's colour, not because of the dog's breed, but just because he is clearly a devoted owner with a very much loved pet. That transcends any sort of pigeon holing based on colour, creed, race, or breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 this is the last thing I will say on this thread. I did not state ALL or ONLY, I was just stating that HERE it is a problem with that certain culture. I guess I should have worded it a little more specific. Yes there are all sorts of people that cause the problem with dog fighting and being irresponsible. I was just stating of the certain problem in my local area. Foxglove, I don't want you to feel I'm piling on, but then again, I don't want you to be confused about why you got the reaction you did to your post. I wonder how you would complete the following sentence: "The fact that the bad asses who swagger around with pit bulls where I live are Hispanic is significant because . . ." If you can't really come up with a good end to that sentence, then maybe you can see why bringing "hispanic" into your post turned it into an ethnic smear. Not listening to the viewpoints of the people who are, maybe, scared into supporting BSL doesn't help any of us make the argument against BSL. Good point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I don't know if i have my head in a hole or not, but I am always shocked when the race card is played with bully breeds. I don't understand why it's necessary. I don't know anyone other than "white" people who own pit's, my own brother has one, and i've even heard "through the grape vine" of white guys asking about dog fighting, which was squashed very quickly, and none of the so called "gang bangers" of other nationalities that i know of (you know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy situation) even have dogs period. So I am pretty sure that where every you go, if you walk in to a dog fighting ring there is going to be at least one representative of every other race involved in the situation. It's stupid and it made me so angry when vick pulled that crap. (MHO) ANYWAY.... I hope sage is doing well and there are no underlying problems or injuries..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millie&MeBC Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I'm just going to say I'm with Melanie. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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