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Absolutely. I am addressing myself only to the speech and not to the speaker. :rolleyes: I accept that things don't always come out the way we mean them to.

 

I'm posting because I'm intrigued by Eileen's idea that we perceive this speech differently.

I'm having a tough time seeing the inoffensive part. When I read this passage, I understand it this way:

"People who try to impress others with aggressive dogs are stupid. There's lots of hispanic people where I live. Hispanic people get great big dogs and put them on heavy chains with spiked collars to impress others."

Am I making too great a leap in logic to assume the quoted passage says hispanic people are stupid because they try to impress people with their aggressive dogs?

 

How do y'all perceive this language?

 

I guess I read it, a bit more charitably, as: "Where I live, I see people acting dumb by trying to impress others by trotting bully breeds around on big chains and collars. Where I live, I notice that some/many of the people acting in this manner are Hispanic."

 

Sometimes, it helps if I break down the message I "receive" in a communication into some component parts.

 

1. I see/hear... (or in the case of the internet, "read"). This is ONLY what could be captured on video recording.

 

2. I feel... This is what emotion is raised in me/the listener. NOT a judgement or conclusion, but a one-word, gut level feeling...like "happy", "sad", "angry". (Clue---if you are tempted to say "I feel THAT...you are a jerk/that is unfair/etc....you are making a judgement.)

 

3. I imagine.... THIS is where a lot of the content of how we "hear" things comes from.

 

So....I might read/hear a statement like the one referenced above as: I READ your post stating that (insert direct quote here). I FEEL puzzled and a little irritated. I IMAGINE you might be trying to say you think Hispanics act in a dumb, macho way by having poorly-managed bully breed dogs.

 

Then, the golden moment----ASK the speaker if you have understood them correctly. Allow them to understand what it was in what they said that brought a concern up.

 

Often this allows for dialogue, instead of instant condemnation, esp where sensitive subjects such as racism are involved.

 

Specifically, I would have like to have seen something more along this line when SoloRiver addressed Foxglove's original comment. If the goal of SoloRiver's comment was to further the cause of combating racism, I'd say the delivery of the comment caused it to miss its mark. Often, folks stop listening when presented with feedback like that. There are ways to give the same message (racism is intolerable) in a more productive way.

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"People who try to impress others with aggressive dogs are stupid. There's lots of hispanic people where I live. Hispanic people get great big dogs and put them on heavy chains with spiked collars to impress others."

Am I making too great a leap in logic to assume the quoted passage says hispanic people are stupid because they try to impress people with their aggressive dogs?

 

How do y'all perceive this language?

Ok, I'll give it a go.

People who try to impress others with aggressive dogs are stupid. I'd tend to agree with that statementas it stands.

There's lots of hispanic people where I live. Just a statement of the demographics of her neighborhood, as I see it.

Hispanic people get great big dogs and put them on heavy chains with spiked collars to impress others. Ok, here's where I see the difference in how we perceived her post.

You interpreted it as "Hispanic people" implying "All Hispanic people". I interpreted it as "This particular group of Hispanic people" meaning "the group in her neighborhood".

So re-write that...."This particular group of Hispanic people get great big dogs and put them on heavy chains with spiked collars to impress others." Does that make a difference for you?

 

I'm curious. Is it offensive because she's describing bad behavior? If the poster had said:

I also live in an area that has a huge hispanic population.. that thinks that they have to donate blood and volunteer at the local homeless shelter......

 

Is that still racist to you guys?

 

If not, then it's ok to designate a race when describing good behavior, but not ok when describing bad behavior?

 

 

Maybe I'm obtuse , but I can't see at all how Melanie's post could be seen as saying "anyone who thinks pit bulls are scary are idiots." It's pretty obvious to me that she's saying that idiocy in the form of misuse of pit bulls cuts across all human groups (i.e., is not peculiar to Hispanics), and as illustration of that fact she is giving the example of a white, apparently British guy who assaulted her with a pit bull.

I do realize that's what she was saying. I was trying to make the point that anything can be misinterpreted if you're looking to be offended. Given that Melanie had said in an earlier post that

it's the anti-breed bigotry and the racism.

you could easily read this one

Idiocy cuts across all human groups. The only pit bull I've ever run into that seriously scared me was with a white guy who had a British accent.

the way I described earlier.

The ONLY pit bull that has scared her.....could be read as "pit bulls aren't scary since I've only been frightened by one and if you don't like them you're showing anti-breed bigotry". Also, idiot.

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I don't even know what to say. I am with however said that I don't get racism. I get humanism. I get cultural differences and all of that. But racism I have a tough time with. :rolleyes:

 

If someone calls me hard headed, opinonated and a typical German should I feel offended? Should I get offended whan the Germans in general are called that?

Or is it only when things are stated in a negative way with the intend to hurt, defame or cause harm?

 

Lets assume I go out and buy my PET german shepherd (oversized and very intimidating looking dog) a wide leather collar with spikes, or even better, I use a piece of heavy chain with a padlock around her neck and walk her down the street with that, what message am I trying to convey? Does it really matter that I am white and my dog is a big, bad ass marshmellow? Or are people going to arrive at another conclusion? Could/should I blame them?

In case of the pits, I myself see a lot of them presented in such manner. Is it the pit dog culture? Is it that, whoever the owners are, they trying to make a statement? Let me tell you, money can't be the issue, those things will amount to more than a good "normal' collar. How many goofy, yet perfectly fine dog folks put a spike collar on a chihuahua? So in this case it is an obvious joke, but still. Is that not supposed to be a play on the fact that my chihuahua is a "Bad Ass"?

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You know what? I said I was going to leave this post alone, but to hell with it. It seems like it can not die down at all. Do you want me to get into every little aspect of my life to explain why I said what I said?

 

LOOK I SAID MY STATEMENT WRONGLY! SO SHOOT ME! I am willing to make a bet that EVERY single one of you who will not let it go has stated something in a wrong manner before and has had to apologize for wording it wrongly. Like everyone else in this world, I make mistakes and word things horrendously, I am not perfect.

 

HMMM maybe it was due to one of my co workers being knocked out cold by a pit bull who was not taught to behave? Maybe it was due to dealing with several different aggressive dogs? Who knows! I worded my statement wrong though!

 

Do you want me to go more into it so you can call me out more? Yes I live in an area that has a huge hispanic population. A lot are illegal immigrants and a lot arent. A lot are great people and a lot are criminals. There are good and bad people in each race. Yes we have redneck hick honkies (or "crackers" as I have seen already typed out) out there with pit bulls and we have blacks with pit bulls and we have white people with pit bulls. We have everyone you can imagine here. HOWEVER, when I have to deal with a lot of the AGGRESSIVE and bad acting pit bulls.. it tends to come from the "thug" owners in the gangs. Which in my area ARE NORMALLY consisting of hispanics due to where I am located (being close to one of the largest cities in America close to the border). I am not saying that ALL hispanics are in gangs or are bad people... but these particular ones that I have had bad experiences with are the thuggy characters with the HUGE pit bulls that are not even properly bred..what makes it worse is they think it is ok for this behavior and then they refuse to speak English after their dog has tried to murder you and your dog. How can it not go unnoticed by me? IT IS A PROBLEM!

 

NOW when I mentioned that maybe people should become qualified to own this certain breed of dog... do you think these "thugs" would be responsible enough to take a class or to go through the procedure because they care??? NO they would not most likely. Namely because they dont care, they dont want to do anything right. Maybe this is why I said something about a hispanic population as THIS CERTAIN PART OF THE HISPANIC POPULATION (CONSISTING OF THE GANG MEMBERS) I said was a problem...NOT THE WHOLE RACE. The ones in these gangs around here tend to not go to school, not speak proper English, and not abide by the law... now these people would probably not take the proper procedures to own this certain breed that can be difficult to own.

 

NOW due to my area, it tends to be more hispanic, but yes it also can cover whites, blacks, asians, martians, and whoever else would want to own a pit bull. But due to where I am at... it is what it is. So sorry I said something to offend you all and to make you all so angry about what I said.

 

As for pit bulls, my parents rescued one that was dumped at my grandfathers, totally sweet dog, was beaten and abused. She is always properly secured and is with the one dog that they have that she gets along with great. Shes happy and active. Would I trust a pit bull around my kids and such when I do have them? Probably not, just due to what I have seen and dealt with. I am sorry that I sounded so anti breed in my previous statements. But I have been known to find a good home for bully breeds as I have said so above.

 

Sheesh I have friends from all races, I have no hard feelings towards anyone, but I DONT like gangs and I dont like how they act... so shoot me!

 

ETA: I guess I should have not been so specific and should have just said "thugs" or "gang members" I crossed a line without knowing I did it until I realised I worded everything soo terribly....*sigh* I guess I am through now, no one will ever let it go no matter how many times I apologize

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People who try to impress others with aggressive dogs are stupid. I'd tend to agree with that statementas it stands.

There's lots of hispanic people where I live. Just a statement of the demographics of her neighborhood, as I see it.

Hispanic people get great big dogs and put them on heavy chains with spiked collars to impress others. Ok, here's where I see the difference in how we perceived her post.

You interpreted it as "Hispanic people" implying "All Hispanic people". I interpreted it as "This particular group of Hispanic people" meaning "the group in her neighborhood".

 

This has been an extremely interesting back and forth.

I'll throw my 2 cents in -

I interpreted the statement very much like the quote above from OffTopic.

I took it to mean that in the predominantly Hispanic area the poster lives in, many are stupid enough to think that a bully dog will make them appear 'bad ass'.

Remove one word - Hispanic - and the whole statement looses the 'racist' overtones (I prefer to think of it as 'stereotyping' - I don't know the poster and would rather give them the benefit of doubt). It instead becomes a general comment on the state of the posters neighborhood. Anyone who knows the neighborhood would probably shake their head in agreement - 'oh, yes - I know what you mean-'. By not labelling the 'obvious', is it still deemed a racist comment?

I was raised on the belief my father was fond of repeating: 'Trash comes in all colors' - am I a racist or a realist?

I am tired of all the 'us and them' attitudes, and the attitude of entitlement that some groups seem to carry around like some banner.....

I am glad I live in the 'middle of nowhere' - ultimately I am just an ostrich with my head in the sand.

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I've been reading this topic with great interest, but have been hesitant to chime in. Everyone seems to be doing a great job putting all the sides of this issue out there. But I'm feeling more talkative today, so here's my two cents, for what it's worth.

 

My background is that I'm hispanic in a mostly white community. I grew up in a mostly white community, which in the 70s was afflicted with a lot of racism against hispanics, which I saw communicated to my Mexican mother, both directly and indirectly all while growing up. The short story is, I've seen and heard a lot more racial/cultural discrimination than I ever wanted to but I try hard not to over-react to other people's lack of thought in their language. But I also try to politely express that I am offended when I hear it. You'd be amazed at the feelings I've been privy to by virtue of the fact that I don't necessarily "look" hispanic to most people (even though I'm a paler copy of my mother in everything but height) and the excuses I hear when I call people on it.

 

The problem with Foxglove's statement is that I would NEVER say the opposite. Here's how it would read...

 

The problem is stupid people think they are "bad asses" with these bully breeds and they let them act like "bad ass" dogs. I know this is not the greatest thing to say, but I really am not a very big fan of bully breeds. I also live in an area that has a huge white population.. that thinks that they are the most "bad ass" if they have the largest pit bull on a huge chain and a collar with the largest spikes..

 

If I were going to complain about the thugs in my community, WHY ON EARTH would their race be relevant unless their race were somehow an issue for me? I don't know how Foxglove, or anyone else, views any other group of individuals. But I do think that this conversation is important to have so that people think about how the words they use reflect their thoughts and attitudes, and realize that other people may carry away an impression of them based on their choice of language. Or that someone like me, who has heard every slur possible, including hearing my mother being called a "wetback" by a teacher who "didn't know that was bad name" and yelled at in a grocery store to "go back where she came from" might be mildly offended by such careless generalizations.

 

ETA: I've had this conversation with people who I stayed good friends with, so I don't consider what Foxglove said in her recent post (we were writing at the same time apparently) to be true... that she is done and will never be forgiven. I don't think anyone needs to be outcast or "disowned" because of a statement that required a conversation about racial attitudes!

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If I were going to complain about the thugs in my community, WHY ON EARTH would their race be relevant unless their race were somehow an issue for me?

 

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. :D That's why, even if the quoted passage meant to include only the hispanic people in the neighborhood and not all hispanic people everywhere, it would still raise red flags for me.

 

ETA: OffTopic raises an interesting point.

I'm curious. Is it offensive because she's describing bad behavior? If the poster had said:

I also live in an area that has a huge hispanic population.. that thinks that they have to donate blood and volunteer at the local homeless shelter......

 

Is that still racist to you guys?

 

Hmm. I don't know. You mean like how my sister purposely moved to the school district in her area with the highest percentage of Asian students cause Asian people's kids are supposed to be smart and well-behaved? Or how I pretty much assume all the hispanic people around the farm are honest and hard-working? I guess I only think ethnically-based assumptions are rascist when they harm someone. For example, if my assumption about hispanic people having a good work ethic led me to overwork and underpay them then yes, I'd call that racist. But in my case it just means I'm willing to open the door if I'm home alone and a hispanic guy I've never met shows up asking to use the phone.

 

And how come OT lives in SC and still says "you guys"? :rolleyes:

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'Cause I was born in North Carolina.

I'm a Yankee!

 

We here in the Palmetto state (pronounced PAL-metta, BTW, not pahl-MET-toe) have long been suspicious of where you Tarheels' loyalties lay. :D

 

And since you brought up the "Y" word, I just realized I do harbor negative prejudice against a group of people and will shut up now. :rolleyes:

:D

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But in my case it just means I'm willing to open the door if I'm home alone and a hispanic guy I've never met shows up asking to use the phone.

 

Not me! I'm not opening the door for any guy I've never met, hispanic or otherwise!! Trust leads to victimization. Don't open the door for people you don't know, don't accept rides from people you don't know. Don't give people rides that you don't know. In my career I have seen too many crimes that could have been prevented if women would stop trusting strange men.

 

(Totally off topic, but I figure this thread has already spiraled enough out of control that it wouldn't do any harm. I can understand addressing a comment that seemed off-color, but the rest of the debate is mind-boggling to me. I don't think anyone here is saying that racism is a good thing or should be tolerated. Some people were offended by the comment in issue, others weren't. Big deal. I think the point has been made and the individual in question will choose her words more carefully next time. Would have been nice if BSL, breed bans, and educational requirements had receive more discussion, since those are actual issues upon which there is actual dissent here.)

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We here in the Palmetto state (pronounced PAL-metta, BTW, not pahl-MET-toe) have long been suspicious of where you Tarheels' loyalties lay. :D

 

And since you brought up the "Y" word, I just realized I do harbor negative prejudice against a group of people and will shut up now. :rolleyes:

:D

 

Honey chile, we would say, "Pal-metter"! We also say "Clemp-son" and Fort "Sump-ter"!

 

I'm a native Tar Heel and have NEVER said "you guys" in my life!

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Y'all wanna know why there is still this kind of talk going on? Cuz everyone thinks that if they get a raw deal somewhere along lifes road, the rest of the world must pay. Everyone thinks everyone else is getting a bigger piece of pie because of "what" they are instead of "who" they are. Clarence Thomas was not indorced by the NAA"L"CP because he didn't believe in affirmative action and because he got where he was by pulling him self up by his own boot straps. Bill Gates worked out of his garage. What guvment agency helped Donald Trump get him where he is? Why did Bill Cosby, or Oprah get so famous and rich? People can "say" they are held down by what ever, but the truth is, it is only ones self that holds anyone down. You think I haven't experienced predjudice? Yeah, I have. Why does one person's or even a group of people's opinon get folks so riled? Geeze, even Hitler had follower's. Maybe some folks don't like you cuz of where you came from, or the shade of your skin, or your accent. So what? Why do people think everyone should like them? And if they don't, and they are different than them, then that is the reason. Not cuz you're a jerk, but cuz you're "insert your description". We have a "hate crime" law. That's so much bull. All crime is a hate crime. When someone swiped my wallet with my rent money in it, I really didn't feel the love. It was definitely a hate crime, and no one hated it more than me.

 

Sally, I too, would open my door to a first generation Mexican, but not a third or more generation. Predjudice? No, experience.

 

I guarentee that if every other red headed person you met, knocked you upside the head, after a while, every time you saw a red headed person, you would duck. That make you predjudice or smart?

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And how come OT lives in SC and still says "you guys"? :rolleyes:

 

::Showing my ignorance in shame::

 

I did not know that you guys don't say "you guys" in the south! I knew y'all said "y'all," but I didn't know you didn't also say "you guys." Where else don't they say it? Is it north/south, or east/west? (I am always mocked in California when I say "pocketbook." Which is obviously the correct term for that item. Harumph.)

 

Tangentially, I've been paying really close attention to how I observe people for the last couple days, as an outgrowth of this conversation. I live in a small city that's mixed in population - mainly white and Puerto Rican, with a small group of non-PR hispanic and also non-hispanic African Americans. Very few Asians, now that I think about it. So, watching how I watch people as I walk Buddy and go through the grocery store, I find that I notice:

 

1) Age - a surprise! This one comes before everything else when I'm looking at people. Even gender, I think, which I didn't expect. My brain immediately sees "old" or "middle aged" or "child" or "dang-blasted teenagers!" (Sorry, teenagers... I'm just fessing up. Don't shoot me.)

 

2) Gender. I find I classify people by gender even at very great distances - men and women have very distinct walks that set them apart.

 

3) Race.

 

But coming in a close fourth with race is... shamefaced to admit...

 

4) Wealth. I really seem to notice this, as reflected in quality of clothing, footwear, manicures, jewelry, accoutrements, haircuts, etc. And I must admit that if I see someone who's decked out better than I am (which is pretty much everyone), I assume that they are judging me harshly for the way I'm dressed, for my lack of manicure. But at the same time, I think I see them as somehow my superiors, despite being able to intellectualize that they aren't my superiors.

 

Really Unique Features, like bright red hair, a missing leg, a Bull Mastiff on a leash, trump all the other classifications my brain is making.

 

Confession: Any strange man, at my door at night, would scare me. It's sad but true: all the "real life crime" shows and novels have taught me that "strange man at the door = gruesome murder."

 

Mary

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Confession: Any strange man, at my door at night, would scare me. It's sad but true: all the "real life crime" shows and novels have taught me that "strange man at the door = gruesome murder."

 

Mary

 

Yes, yes, yes. And not just because of shows and novels. As someone who has been victimized when I was younger, I can say that "nice" these days usually does get you in trouble. And as a woman, I'd rather be smart, perceptive and paying attention. This is what keeps you safe. And, if it feels wrong for you, it is.

Ailsa

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Mary, the only people in the South who say "you guys" are from "up north" However, since at least 10 years ago the population of Florida was statistically >75% non-native Floridian that means that "you guys" has become more common down here than "y'all" and I absolutely hate to go to a restaurant and be addressed as "you guys" when I'm clearly not. It also means that we (native Floridians) hear a lot of "people down here don't want to work" from new residents of Florida; they don't mean the Hispanic population, they mean the "white" population. They just don't realize the majority of people here aren't Southerners or Floridians any more, it's their fellow transplants.

 

We all need to remember that it's much better to calmly look for more information before jumping to conclusions about another person's intentions whether it's their perceived prejudices or how they train their dog or why they chose to do whatever we think they did wrong. I didn't think "Obtuse" was a positive addition to the discussion but perhaps it was said with affection. We ALL have prejudices and unfair attitudes, there are a few among us who truly don't but more often it means the opportunity hasn't been presented to us nor does it mean that our's are ok and someone else's aren't.

 

There are indeed white people who are discriminated against, picture a dirt-poor, white, Southern share-cropper with bad teeth who doesn't even have money to eat decent food or put decent clothes on their children. Prejudice cuts across every race, social class, and economic status. It's a way of distancing ourselves from "the others" and saying "we're not like them." Don't mistake my intention, it's wrong but we'll do it at some point. We may not say it or act on it but it will at least flit through our minds at some time.

 

Suzanne

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I'm a native Tar Heel and have NEVER said "you guys" in my life!
I did not know that you guys don't say "you guys" in the south! I knew y'all said "y'all," but I didn't know you didn't also say "you guys."

Well, I have to admit I'm not a normal southerner. I say "you guys" all the time, as well as "y'all", I prefer potatoes to rice, and I hate lemon in my sweet tea.

But I am southern enough to think that grits, tomato sandwiches on soft squishy white bread (with Duke's mayo, of course), and mustard greens are the food of the gods. Although not eaten at the same time. :rolleyes:

 

Any strange man, at my door at night, would scare me.

Ditto. If I'm home alone, I do not answer the door unless I'm expecting someone.

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I guarentee that if every other red headed person you met, knocked you upside the head, after a while, every time you saw a red headed person, you would duck. That make you predjudice or smart?

 

That depends... Are we talking about Dixie Girl, or Rev. Jeremiah Wright?

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We are all going down this road called life. We will each experience different things along the way. See different things, hear different things. And through it all, we are each really just trying to get to our destination, whatever that is for each person. Everyone seems to be saying how they don't this and they don't that, and this excuse for that, and this is wrong and how can you say THAT. I personally don't want anyone to say what I believe is wrong. They can tell me what they believe and try to pursuade me to their way of thinking, fine. However, if I let what I believe makes me hurt someone, that is wrong on me. But there are things that I believe are worth fighting for. Somethings aren't. We could probly go on with this discussion, but pretty much everyone is in some agreement with everyone. If someone is preaching to me "equality" then by gum, that's what it better mean. I hear a lot of "score keeping". You can't do that in life. It's like, if I found out Joe Blow did my granddaddy wrong, and I meet up with Joe Blow III, I need to do him wrong. There are worse things in life going on. There will always be something going on. You can't make all the kids play nice in the sandbox, and you ain't never gonna get grown ups to either. I have things I am passionate about. Things I believe are MY truths. They may not be your truths, but that does not negate mine.

 

All I know is that there are only a few things I have done to make me lose sleep at night. And I was much younger then. I sleep well now. I can look at my self and like what I see. If you don't, that's your deal. I don't have to sleep with you.

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Dude - no one cares about Easterners!

 

;-)

 

RDM

 

 

:D:D:rolleyes:

 

Hey!!! I resemble that comment!

 

Why does every one hate Ontarians? What have we done? We are land locked (no ocean to draw in the tourists), no cute accents to thrill the visitors (maritimes), and no massive oil reserves to thumb our noses at every one else over (praries).... we have nothing but an army to dig us out after meager snow falls!

 

Sara

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Confession: Any strange man, at my door at night, would scare me. It's sad but true: all the "real life crime" shows and novels have taught me that "strange man at the door = gruesome murder."

 

Sad that it has to be that way, but not sad that you feel that way. That's just smart. For me, I would generalize that to any strange man at my door at any time. There are men out there that will hurt you if given the chance and you can't tell which ones they are by how they look or what race they are, or even the fact that they are familiar to you. Ladies--protect yourselves. Be smart. Your safety comes before the chance that you might offend someone.

 

Also, why is it wrong to notice people's differences. People are different. Men and women are fundamentally different. Young and old are different. Races are different. They act differently, they think differently. And that is just a fact. And it is also a fact the majority of some groups tend to possess certain (sometimes negative) characteristics. Young people tend to be impulsive, irresponsible, and immature. As a young person, I hate the stereotypes that I was and am subject to because I was not one of the impulsive, irresponsible, immature ones, but it didn't and doesn't change the fact that I was and am lumped in with the majority and that characterization of the majority was accurate. Stereotypes often have a basis in reality. It takes a strong person to overcome the impulse to stereotype and judge an individual based on that individual's characteristics, because our perception is clouded by our experiences. However, the fact that one tends to see others through sterotyped lenses does not make one a racist, or sexist, or any other type of -ist, so long as they are still able to judge the individual individually. How do we overcome stereotypes? By persuading the members of our groups whose bad habits we don't want to be associated with that they need to change. Change the reality, and the stereotypes will change as well.

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Ha ha! Vancouver seems to be largely made up of displaced Ontarians. Whenever someone finds out I was *actually* born here, they pull this little shocked face at me. And I think it's funny that everyone says Vancouverites are oh-so unfriendly compared to Easterners, seeing as how most Vancouverites seems to BE Easterners ;-)

 

My mother's side of the family is poor white Anglo-Quebecois - doesn't get much more hated than that in Canada! My father's side is Glaswegian.

 

Toronto is *very* ugly though.

 

RDM

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I've deliberately not replied to this thread up till now because I just didn't really have anything to add, but then this morning on the way to work I heard a "teaser" on NPR for an upcoming story. The teaser went something like this: "Cheese heroin is a big problem among young hispanics in south Texas." It occurred to me that this statement is somewhat similar to Foxglove's statment at least as it was taken by many people here (in a nutshell, hispanics in her area use pitbulls to make themselves more intimidating or macho). So my question is this? Do you see NPR's teaser statement as having racist overtones? After all, it sweeps with a pretty broad brush when it says "young hispanics in south Texas" since surely not all young hispanics are heroin addicts, but by putting the two terms in the same sentence together, they are connecting them. If the same comment had been made by an individual as opposed to a news organization, would its intent be interpreted differently? That is, would the individual be considered as making a racist statement whereas the news organization would not, I'm guessing largely because the listener would assume that with respect to the news organization there will be facts forthcoming to substantiate the claim?

 

I understand everyone who interpreted the poster's statement as racist--and it certainly has made me more aware in my listening, which is why that NPR story teaser caught my attention this morning. That's what finally led me to post to this thread.

 

J.

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Also, why is it wrong to notice people's differences. People are different. Men and women are fundamentally different. Young and old are different. Races are different. They act differently, they think differently. And that is just a fact. And it is also a fact the majority of some groups tend to possess certain (sometimes negative) characteristics. Young people tend to be impulsive, irresponsible, and immature. As a young person, I hate the stereotypes that I was and am subject to because I was not one of the impulsive, irresponsible, immature ones, but it didn't and doesn't change the fact that I was and am lumped in with the majority and that characterization of the majority was accurate. Stereotypes often have a basis in reality. It takes a strong person to overcome the impulse to stereotype and judge an individual based on that individual's characteristics, because our perception is clouded by our experiences. However, the fact that one tends to see others through sterotyped lenses does not make one a racist, or sexist, or any other type of -ist, so long as they are still able to judge the individual individually. How do we overcome stereotypes? By persuading the members of our groups whose bad habits we don't want to be associated with that they need to change. Change the reality, and the stereotypes will change as well.

 

Good point!!

 

If I complain about the teenage boys who have been vandalizing my mailbox for the past 6 months, and I identify them as teenage boys, is that age discrimination and sexism? I don't see it that way.

 

And is it really stereotyping? In general I have no problem with boys, nor with teenagers. I like people of the male gender and I like most teenagers. It is the case, however, that the human persons who are vandalizing my mailbox at this time are both teenagers and boys. For me to say so isn't really stereotyping - it's just a description that fits the reality.

 

If 85 year old ladies were vandalizing my mailbox, I wouldn't be complaining about teenage boys right now!!

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