jdarling Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Living the Country Life - Training Dogs to Work with Stock Poor dog. Poor ducks. Jodi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soda-pop Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 that was worse the other one. Poor ducks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Oh ... dear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixie_Girl Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 At first I thought, gee I wish I could see how she starts the dog on sheep, but then I had a vision, and decided I am very glad they were just penned ducks we got to see demonstrated! What is the deal with people making up their own words for directions, etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaggieDog Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 And she shows in obedience and agility too, so she must know how to do it right. I'm a rank novice to stockwork of any sort and even I could see that something was "off" about that segment. (not to mention the dog's reaction to being put into a down at the start - can anyone say stressed?!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 At first I thought, gee I wish I could see how she starts the dog on sheep, but then I had a vision, and decided I am very glad they were just penned ducks we got to see demonstrated! What is the deal with people making up their own words for directions, etc.? The sad thing is, I don't think they realize they are making them up. I suspect they just have really horrible sources of information. I also suspect that this woman has never been to a clinic, seen anyone training a dog on stock, read a book on starting a dog, etc. If these people are "experts" then I could make a killing teaching herding lessons. At least I know the proper commands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSnappy Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 What the hell? Blech! RDM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jackieandryan Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I don't know the first thing about training a dog with livestock, but something just didn't seem right about that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berocca Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 So she has one command for clockwise and one for anti-clockwise (cant remember what she said they were) yet when the dog changed direction of its own accord she said "good girl". So does she want the dog moving on its own or not? I agree, the dog didn't look too eager at the start. Most dogs would be itching to work, not looking stressed about the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I didn't see any harm come to the ducks- in fact, they didn't appear to fuss much at all. My biggest issue was when she told the dog to "get over" whatever that means, and the dog was trying to get from side to side, it just appeared very off. Why use this person for a demo, when you have so many qualified folks? Also, in regard to the stress at being asked to down, I believe that dog was sitting and staring at those ducks for what must have seemed to the dog as an interminable amount of time, and her brain was about blown by the time she was sent around. So, not sure if I would say the stress was due to how the handler trained (but who knows) as much as the fact that the dog was building tension up for a long while before being allowed to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I am no expert, but this is exactly how I would increase the prey drive in a dog that I intended to make into a goose dog. Frustrate the heck out of them and by the time they actually are allowed direct access to the stock, nothing but CHASE/KILL is on their minds. Of course, if you start with a dog with fairly low work ethic to begin with, that's not a huge problem - that would be all that is keeping them out there. Then you just have obedience on stock - which is what the handlers of most "other" breeds work with. It's a shame to see it done to a Border Collie, though. I too wonder why this person was selected of all the real livestock/stockdog handlers that are out there, who could give some truly helpful advice. This was supposed to be a how-to for farmers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbernard2424 Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Can you see it now? All the uninformed people with BCs are going to get ducks to put in an x-pen to teach their dog to "herd." This reminds me of my early days before I got stock when I thought I could teach Gel flanks using a stationary ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy V Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I am no expert, but this is exactly how I would increase the prey drive in a dog that I intended to make into a goose dog. Frustrate the heck out of them and by the time they actually are allowed direct access to the stock, nothing but CHASE/KILL is on their minds. Becca, Don't mean to thread hijack, but is this really your method of training a goosedog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Go bye and get over? She doesn't even know what a round pen actually is. What the heck WAS that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INU Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 What are we supposed to be looking at? I don't see any videos...do I need to sign up first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquilis Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 This was supposed to be a how-to for farmers? Unless I miss my guess, that site is aimed at 'hobby farmers.' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisK Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Where's the puking icon when you need it????? ETA: here's the email address for that site....maybe we should all send a letter asking - at the very least to have a disclaimer 'DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME???" Seriously though, it might not be a bad idea to let them know that the training wasn't really training at all. staff@livingthecountrylife.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I don't have sound so I couldn't hear what was said, but I would like to point out that there's no universal rule that a person use "come bye" and "away to me" as directionals. Those are probably the most common terms, but just the use of something else wouldn't bother me much. What I don't get about the video is that if you're training a dog to work stock it needs to be able to interact with the stock if you actually expect it to learn something (like how to read stock and react appropriately). Tipping your PVC pipe back and forth to make the dog flip back and forth while the ducks stay stationary inside a little pen just seems rather pointless to me. Tranquilis, A hobby farmer is basically someone who farms but doesn't make a living off it, so therefore is doing it as a hobby. Many of us on this forum would be considered hobby farmers by that definition, and I certainly would hope for better instruction than that! Like I said, I couldn't hear the woman's explanations, but just seeing the the action made me think it was all a bit senseless, to say the least. As for why this person was chosen for this segment, it's likely that she knew someone who knew someone. If you're not into trialing or not very familiar with the working border collie world (and certainly if you don't do your homework as a reporter), you're not going to know who the more qualified people are. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bskeeter Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 KrisK, Here you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Wendy, I was actually being facetious myself. I don't even generally mess with dogs that don't like birds to begin with because I don't have a setup to start dogs on land. Just a two/three acre pond. ETA: And I have found the crazed prey driven dogs are not really my style - it works better for me to have some focus to start out with because of the size of my pond, and the other places we work are correspondingly difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted February 6, 2008 Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 I don't have sound so I couldn't hear what was said, but I would like to point out that there's no universal rule that a person use "come bye" and "away to me" as directionals. Those are probably the most common terms, but just the use of something else wouldn't bother me much. Yes, that's what I was thinking. And, I've been told that some dogs who were obedience trained first with "come" as a recall, when it came time for stock work, they used "go bye" instead of "come bye". As for the rest of it, looked pretty pointless to me. I think even if you didn't know what you were actually supposed to be looking for, it *still* looked pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stockdogranch Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Argghh! Where do you guys FIND these things? And who has the time to look for them? Sigh. Looks like a very frustrated dog--it's not allowed to ever be in CONTACT with the "stock, " so it gets frustrated, and flips back and forth. She was using "get over" for the away direction, but then when she said it, she didn't really do anything to see that the dog went that way, anyway. What a bunch of crap, A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquilis Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Tranquilis,A hobby farmer is basically someone who farms but doesn't make a living off it, so therefore is doing it as a hobby. Many of us on this forum would be considered hobby farmers by that definition, and I certainly would hope for better instruction than that! Point.Let me re-phrase: New and inexperienced hobby farmers. i.e. Suburbanites whom have 'discovered' the joys of country life and are setting up their own rural haven - Not people with serious farming experience or backgrounds. Yes, that's what I was thinking. And, I've been told that some dogs who were obedience trained first with "come" as a recall, when it came time for stock work, they used "go bye" instead of "come bye". Heh! I tend to use naval terms, actually, on dogs - "Belay that!" for "Leave it!" and "Post" for "Come," and so on. After so many years barking such commands at young sailors, it comes naturally to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 When I first started working with the dogs I used come like the obedience people do. So I used go bye as the flank command. I was always confusing myself and found that over the years I stopped using come and started using a recall whistle. I now use Comebye. I might use "come here so and so" when off stock but it's like using my kids whole name if he's in trouble. They certainly know the difference. "Here" is the word I use to bring the dog to me. I know some guys that use all sorts of words for their commands. One uses forward and reverse. I have to keep them the same or I'll never get it right! But I agree with Julie, you can use any words you want, consistency is the key. That and a Scottish accent! Was that supposed to be a round pen? I kept waiting to see them go to the round pen. What a sad example to show the public how to start a stock dog. Wonder how many people will be trying to duplicate what she did? I was using DH's high speed work connection and was excited to even get to see the video. How dissapointing. Tonight I got to use it and found some stuff on youtube by someone that goes by Stillhope. Do you guys know who that is? Now that was some great stuff! I tend to use naval terms, actually, on dogs - "Belay that!" for "Leave it!" and "Post" for "Come," and so on. After so many years barking such commands at young sailors, it comes naturally to me. "Belay that" and "barking commands" makes me giggle! Guess I wouldn't make a good sailor! Kristen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquilis Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 "Belay that" and "barking commands" makes me giggle! Guess I wouldn't make a good sailor! Hey, when someone's engaged in horseplay around the equipment, you either get them to knock it off, fast, or blood flows. And "belay that!" is a fine and useful phrase when rigging or linehandling, aside from its common use as a "knock it off" command. There's a whole lexicon of salty phrases that might make people giggle, but have very serious meaning in the proper context. And yeah, I was a gruff ol' fart when it was called for. But I wasn't a patch on my mentor, a diminutive but oak-hard PO1 by the name of Liz Swindler. Now there was a woman that made man and dog obey! She was partial to ACDs, mostly. Anyway, yeah, I use sailor's commands a lot of the time. Now if I could only get the dogs at the rescue to obey "Fall in!" and "Form up!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.