Grrrr! Big Rant!!! Stupid Know-it-all Owner!!!

[mbc1963]

Brief history of my dog, Buddy: highly reactive to both people and dogs when rescued 2 years ago. Hard, intense rewards-based training for a couple months, exposing him to new situations and reducing his fear and reactivity. Two years later, he can now walk city streets and deal pretty well in most situations. Still reactive sometimes if I allow a situation to escalate until he crosses his threshold. Mischief managed, mostly.

 

Last week, I was walking Buddy in the wooded park. He is generally fine there, though I monitor his meetings because he can be reactive when approached by other large dogs. Two big dogs (yellow lab, golden) approached him, and he got a bit tense, so I said, "Leave it," (his no-growl command) in a stern voice, and explained to the two owners, "He gets scared when more than one dog comes at him sometimes. He thinks he's being attacked." One of the women said, "I should try 'leave it.' Sometimes I feel like growling when I meet more than one American at a time." (I don't know where this woman is from - maybe Germany? - but we are in America.) I chuckled and walked on.

 

So, tonight, I came upon her again at the swimming hole. The two big dogs ran at us, and I held Buddy back a bit so my sister's dog could do the meet-and-greet first. Buddy is less reactive the smaller the crowd. The golden retriever came toward me, and I called him over so my dog could greet the other dog one-on-one. The woman called, "Be careful with him. He has a fight scheduled later tonight."

 

I thought I had misunderstood her, but she said it again. Then, seeing my confusion, she said, "Oh, I'm just joking... because of the football player fighting dogs... Americans are all so scared of pit bulls..."

 

I said, "I'm not scared of your dog, but my dog isn't always friendly."

 

After hearing this, the woman came right at us, and leaned down over Buddy, staring and saying, "Come here sweetie," etc.. I said, "He might bark at you." She brushed this aside and stuck her hands at Buddy's face, leaning over further, staring him right in the eye. This was a one-way approach: she approached him quickly, and Buddy obviously was NOT returning the approach. Buddy got very tense and did, indeed, let out a warning bark.

 

This woman was apparently still interested in interacting, and tried to get close again, so I pulled out the old, "Would you give him a treat?" This usually helps with scary people who want to interact - most people seem to really want to give treats, and I can usually buy Buddy a little distance so he calms down and warms up to the person. Plus, it helps him learn that from tense beginnings can come pleasant endings.

 

The woman said, "Oh, no... you can't bribe dogs. You shouldn't bribe dogs." She refused the treat and stuck her hand back in Buddy's face. I said, "It's not bribing him. It's teaching him that meeting humans means good things," which she poo-pooed again as she put her hand in Buddy's face and moved her own body still closer to my NOW-GROWLING dog.

 

I said, "OK, We're going to keep walking now," and led Buddy away. As I walked away, she yelled after me, "You should watch 'The Dog Whisperer!' "

 

AIIEEEE!!!!!

 

Of course, I spent the rest of my walk composing the response I SHOULD have given this woman - the one that quotes from Patricia McConnell and Turid Rugaas and Ian Dunbar, the one that quotes from "The Dog Whisperer" himself. The one the describes warning signs and canine body language and the dozens of dozens of books I've read about working with fearful and reactive dogs. The one that tells how my dog meets new people EVERY DAY who can pet him and love on him, because they read body language well enough to approach slowly and gently. Most importantly, the one that says that any semi-intelligent SIX-YEAR-OLD knows how STUPID it is to get in the face of a dog who's growling at you!!!!!

 

GRRRRR!!!

 

::Rant Off::

 

Feel free to toss me understanding, sympathetic eye rolls and tales of similarly ridiculous people you've met.

 

Mary

[OurBoys]

Mary,

 

People like that are a danger to themselves. When you're in a public area and politeness doesn't work, that person leaves you no choice but to be rude right back at her. You know your dog better than she does. And the last thing you want is for some jerk to set Buddy back.

 

Make sure someone is with you when you go on these walks. Take a recorder and an camera with you (if you don't have access to a camcorder). If they ask you why the other person is taking pictures, tell them they are also being recorded because you want proof you tried to tell them to back off and they failed to listen to you when Buddy bites them and they try to sue you.

 

I hate being rude but sometimes you have to treat boldness with boldness. And you can never go wrong CYA.

[Shadows Mom]

I hate idiots like that. The vet I used to work for was called to court a few times to testify that particular dogs wouldn't bite unless they were provoked, because some idiot did something like that woman and got bitten. *grumble* some people need to be on leashes...

[OurBoys]

I forgot to add....Make sure you also have some Mace or pepper spray with you as well. As soon as Buddy bites that woman her dog is going to attack Buddy. I'm beginning to wonder if that has been her intent. Something to think about.

[smileyzookie]

This will probably sound more harsh than I mean it so please understand I dont mean offense. It is your job to protect your dog, and IMO I would have physically stepped between them and said. "lady, back off. You can stare your dog down all you want, you will NOT stare mine down. You wanna stare at someone, stare at me." I dont think Im a confrontational person at heart, but you mess with my dog, cat, family or friends and we got one hell of a fight comin.

[Guest WoobiesMom]

Wow, I'm so sorry. I had a very similar experience happen when I warned a dad not to bring his 18 mo. old closer or try to pet my dog. He kept saying "Oh, she likes all dogs" etc. Grr, finally I called Woobs over to toss the ball and just avoided the guy. I tried telling him that kids had been bitten and hurt in the park, that she was too young to be there, etc. and he just ignored me completely.

 

As for the Dog Whisperer comment, I can say, as a fan of Cesar's, that he has NEVER shown or advocated that type of approach. His "No Touch, No Talk, No Eye Contact" mantra is completely contrary to what that woman did.

 

I've heard that there's a doggie t-shirt that says "Please don't pet me, I'm shy". Maybe a shirt that says "Listen to my Owner, She Sues." is in order.

 

Again, sorry that woman was such a brute and an idiot. Since you frequent the same area, the next time she tried to approach, I think I'd have to be rude and tell her to stay away.

[Joe Anne]

I soooooo feel for you Maybe that woman should be the poster child for "Humans, the Intelligent Species???????...

NOT!" People like that make me want to scream! Actually, hmmmmm, that may not be a bad idea........ if she ever apporaches you again...SCREAM! If someone inquires, tell them you were just protecting you and your dog from this

NUT! case, woman.... LOL!!!!!

[mbc1963]

Thanks, y'all...

 

I will definitely keep my dog away from this WOMAN in the future. And no, Smileyzookie, I'm not offended. This was one of those situations where things go from bland to stupid so fast that I didn't realize until too late what I was setting Buddy up for. Alas, I'm not good at thinking of good verbal arguments on my feet - but I'm loaded for bear next time.

 

And special thanks to Woobiesmom, who quoted Cesar Millan's mantra. I found a great Yahoo Pets page where Cesar teaches how to meet a dog for the first time, and it's all about "no touch, no talk, no eye contact," which this woman violated 1-2-3! I've printed out a copy and I'm going to try to remember to tuck it in my pocket just in case I meet her again.

 

http://pets.yahoo.com/blog/cesarmillan/543...cjsUW9TeqyHy4MB

 

Now that I think of it, I wonder if maybe the woman has Asperger's syndrome... the way she's interacted with both humans and dogs is so odd and inappropriate - maybe she can't read social cues from either species. ::Sigh::

 

Mary

[Nik]

I've got PLENTY of stories that can relate, but I think the one that really took me by surprise the most was just a couple of weeks ago. I had to take all dogs in for their shots and I can't take all four at one time so I split it up in turns. I took Navi and Gracie first, got to the vets, brought both back and being cautious enough to keep anyone from getting hurt, I request the tech get the muzzle out for Navi. Both of my bigger dogs are fine w/ the vet people until the poking and prodding begin. I put it on him and things were hunky dory. Drove 5 minutes home and dropped those two off and returned w/ Pache. He had a different tech so right off the bat I told her to go ahead and get the muzzle again for me and she looked at me and said, "I don't think we have a muzzle." I said, "Yes maam you do I just took it off my other dog less than 15 minutes ago." Then she proceeded to ask me "Do you really think we will need one?" I just shook my head and told her that unless she wants to get bitten she definitely needed to get the muzzle. Needless to say, Pache was OK after we got the muzzle on but when she started to take his temp, he peed all over me. He is my most reactive to people and it was very hard for me to "learn" to be rude to people when it comes to stuff like this, but I just finally accepted that no matter how nice you are some people just DO NOT get it and for your dogs own protection, sometimes thats what it takes. I don't want to have to put my dog in danger of being put down because of someones elses stupidity and because I was too polite to keep something from happening.

 

If you ever run into this woman again, I would run not walk away from her as fast as you can.

[silhouettestable]

Then she proceeded to ask me "Do you really think we will need one?"

 

She obviously hasn't been snapped at enough by the dogs whose owners insist they're perfectly friendly and love everyone. If she had, she would know better than to argue with the owner who actually says "get a muzzle". Give her time, she'll learn

[AK dog doc]

Really. If an owner tells me they think the dog needs a muzzle, I NEVER argue with them. Even if I think the muzzle is just to make the OWNER feel safe, I never argue with them. The potential consequences for taking a chance on not muzzling are too high. Plenty of dogs are perfectly happy and friendly - until you start doing something to them. Then things sometimes suddenly change. If the owner is astute enough to recognize this, why on EARTH would one ignore them? Makes no sense.

 

As for the obnoxious person on the trail.... avoid her, step between her and your dog, tell her "Maybe YOU should watch the dog whisperer!" - but don't let her bug you. She's as clueless as they come and will learn her lesson one day by being bitten. Hopefully not by your dog, because then it's your liability, but some day there won't be an owner clued-in enough to prevent it, or she'll go after some dog who is off leash or stray. Some people just believe they have a special relationship with dogs and no dog will bite them. It's a stupid delusion and puts animals at risk, so it's the height of arrogance, but they aren't going to let go of it til they get bitten.

[OurBoys]

"Plenty of dogs are perfectly happy and friendly - until you start doing something to them. Then things sometimes suddenly change."

 

AK, I couldn't agree with you more. The last time checkups were due, DH & I took all 3 (2 dogs, 1 cat). Awhile back when our cat was having problems & I was taking her in 1-3 times wk, I would take JJ with me. JJ loves the vet! But I also know JJ. He's very protective of Jake. When the vet started examining Jake, I took JJ across the room. And sure enough, JJ tried to get over to Jake to get between him and the vet. I feel JJ would not have hurt the vet but why take the chance? I also respect this vet very much because she actually listens to me when we talk.

[AKB]

I don't understand these people. I got Pasqual when we lived in an apartment. He was EXTREMELY dog aggressive when we first got him- in our adult beginner class we were actually, swear to God, recommended a gentle leader because as the instructor put it "his barking and growling are so bad that not only is he not learning, he is preventing the other students from learning." We made it through the class with the gentle leader, but he wasn't a happy camper. Anyway, one day I was walking him in the field next to our apartment. This couple that was driving down the road pulled over, and got their beagle out to walk too. I don't know if they were from out of town and this looked like a good potty break spot, or if they just wanted to come see Pasqual but as soon as he spotted them the barking and snarling commenced. So he is going nuts, and the big stupid guy waves at me and starts to trot his beagle over for a visit. At this point, Pasqual is foaming at the mouth, and I'm trying to yell over his yelps to tell the guy to stay where he is and we will go inside. He keeps coming. Finally he gets within about five feet of my ostensibly rabid dog and I say "Don't come any closer- he is not friendly (understatement) with other dogs." And the guy says this: "Oh, really?" Oh really? Oh really? how is it possible that you are looking at Mr. fifteen pounds of fury here (he's up to 20 pounds now)and not understanding that he does not like other dogs? I think he thought he was going to help me socialize him. Idiot.

[Vickkers]

what a complete and utter IDIOT! i could understand that kind of behavior from a child (we're teaching our new neighbor girls not to get in our puppies faces) but an adult?! GRRRRRRR.

[BC-Liz]

This may be wrong of me to say (and I understand this isn't an option since the dog could be put down) but you should have let the idiot get bitten. How stupid do you have to be to get close to a growling dog?! You're lucky you got out of there when you did.

 

I don't have a story of my own but my step mom was at her home when a lady came over to buy a car she was selling. My step mom answered the door with her Rat Terrier, Watson...who thinks he's the head of the household (my parents fault, I've tried helping) in her arms . This lady, who my step mom has never met, has never met her dog and has never been to the house before decided it would be a good idea to hug my step mom while there was a dog in her arms. Of course Watson bit the lady, right on the face. The woman ended up sueing...not sure how that's going now.

[juliepoudrier]

Really. If an owner tells me they think the dog needs a muzzle, I NEVER argue with them. Even if I think the muzzle is just to make the OWNER feel safe, I never argue with them. The potential consequences for taking a chance on not muzzling are too high. Plenty of dogs are perfectly happy and friendly - until you start doing something to them. Then things sometimes suddenly change. If the owner is astute enough to recognize this, why on EARTH would one ignore them? Makes no sense.

Yep. I've actually had vets thank me for suggesting we muzzle Farleigh before attempting to do anything to him. He's fearful in such situations and will bite. My vets have always said that it's rare for an owner to admit his/her dog has an issue and usually they won't say anything and just let the poor vet/vet techs figure it out. I can understand owners having their heads stuck firmly in the sand, but I would truly be surprised if a vet tech or vet argued with me about my request to muzzle *my* dog before treatment!

 

J.

[mbc1963]

I'm surprised at vets not wanting muzzles. Since Buddy was reactive when I got him, the vet suggested muzzling him for his early exams. Since then, I've requested a muzzle for the shots and rectal probing - though I suspect Buddy would just cringe in fear. As soon as I mention muzzling, the vets are all happy to do it.

 

The last time I went in, the vet told me that it was for their insurance rates - apparently, every time a vet or vet tech gets bitten, there's some requirement that they do a report to the local animal control or something, which the insurance companies do NOT like to see. So they'd rather muzzle for the 15-minute exam than risk getting their rates raised. Makes good sense to me. Plus, they use soft, velcro-attached muzzles, which don't seem to bother my dog much more than the gentle leader used to.

 

Mary

[Nik]

thats the part that surprised me so...i would expect something like that kind of question from your average joe, but a vet tech....now that i think about it she must have been fairly new because i havent seen her around before, unless she happened to come in w/ one of the other dr.s for that particular day.

 

btw...i guess my shift button is messed up...sorry for no capitalization or correct punctuation.

[bc4pack]

It may help to visualize what to say before you find yourself with rude people..but I know hindsight it 20/20.

 

 

 

As for muzzles... I feel EVERY dog should know how to be comfortable in one...

muzzles can save a vet's fingers ... and for those of you with reactive/shy dogs it can sure

help in keeping idiots away!

[SnickerKitten]

"Now that I think of it, I wonder if maybe the woman has Asperger's syndrome... the way she's interacted with both humans and dogs is so odd and inappropriate - maybe she can't read social cues from either species. ::Sigh::"

 

Mary, could be. When my son was 3 and throwing an autistic meltdown (like a temper tantrum times a million) in a store and I was sitting calmly holding onto him as he's thrashing around so he wouldn't run off and injure himself or cause major destruction in the store and waiting it out. Next thing I knew a woman was standing in front of him screaming and jumping up and down and basically acting just like him. I was completely appalled. I said "Geez, he's three years old and autistic, what's your excuse?" She told me she thought I was autistic and stormed off. To this day all I can feel for her is pity. Not sure if she was somewhere along the autism spectrum (such as aspergers) or just a royal idiot.

 

As for your woman, if you've run into her again since you posted this so long ago, I hope you didn't have any further issues with her. I find that when a human doesn't immediately move away from a dog that is showing signs that that's what needs to happen it's best just to treat that person as if they were another dog that was intimidating your dog- ie. physically move between them and then remove your dog from the area. Then again I'm not the least confontational person I've ever met I figure if someone wants my respect then they're going to show respect to me and that woman was certainly not respecting you in any way shape or form nevermind what she was doing to your dog.

 

Lori

[DeltaBluez Tess]

I was at my vets one day and they had a new vet tech.

 

I had Tess on the table and she asked "Do you need a muzzle"

 

"No, Kit (the vet) removed MY teeth the last time I was here so I wouldn't bite anymore"

 

Kit walked in at that point and all cooed all over Tess and the vet tech quietly slipped out.

 

Diane~

[donna frankland (uk)]

much as i try not to be rude these days, i would never have been able to resist saying something to the lady along the lines of;

me 'would you mind sodding off please?'

lady 'oh i'm WONDERFUL with dogs!!'

me 'yeah but i am a right b**ch and i dont like you, so if i throw you a stick will you f*** off?'

because apparently it seem people are less willing to listen to foul language than they are sticking their heads in a growling dog's face

what a pillock.