So Many Border Collies!

[TRCYGRDN]

Maybe this is opening up a can of worms, but, if there are so many BCs in rescue in the UK, why isn't that the avenue that pet owners who do their research are going when getting a BC?

We nearly adopted a 1yr old BC dog. This dog, Patch, had never had any training, was EXTREMELY boisterous, jumpy, bitey and barky. Before we had Ed I had never owned a dog before and wouldn't have known what to do and how to handle it. My fiance had owned a BC and BC cross so thought that with time, training and patience he would grow to be a good lad. However, we had to consider that it would be myself spending the most time with him and we knew that I would have been overwhelmed. I know it sounds selfish but Patch deserved to have been adopted by a more experienced dog owner.

I don't know why people dont adopt BC's from rescue centres. Maybe there are more irresponsible people that buy them and dump them than there are adpoting them. There are alot of stupid people in the world.

Since having Ed I have learnt a great deal and would happily adopt a BC from a home. At the time it would have been irresponsible of us to adopt Patch as he wouldn't have been happy with me panicking and getting frustrated.

[Maralynn]

Your guess is as good as mine! I work my dogs and therefore choose to buy pups (or started dogs) from good working lines. I think the main problem is that too many collies are bred and there aren't enough experienced homes to go round

 

I guess my problem is that there are people talking about the awful plight of BCs in rescue, yet going to breeders to get their pet dogs. That is their choice, of course, but it doesn't really make sense to me.

[Moss]

I guess my problem is that there are people talking about the awful plight of BCs in rescue, yet going to breeders to get their pet dogs. That is their choice, of course, but it doesn't really make sense to me.

 

Well I can't speak for others, but as I said I work my dogs and that is why I choose to buy pups or started dogs from breeders. I suppose there are many reasons why people buy pups as pets, rather than going to rescue and I think the real problem is puppy farmers and backyard breeders breeding irresponsibly and selling to anyone who shows them the colour of their money.

[Sue R]

I guess my problem is that there are people talking about the awful plight of BCs in rescue, yet going to breeders to get their pet dogs. That is their choice, of course, but it doesn't really make sense to me.

 

Maralynn - In terms of pet/sport dogs, I couldn't agree with you more. But, in terms of dogs for stockwork (and Kirsty uses/will use her dogs for sheepwork), getting a pup/dog from a credible breeder/trainer is often the best alternative.

 

There are occasionally excellently-bred, working-bred Border Collies in rescue. I wouldn't have a problem adopting the right dog from rescue that would suit my farm needs (and personality wants) but those who depend on their dogs' working abilities will usually go with a good breeder rather than a rescue whose background they might not know.

 

For myself, the dogs that come into our home have a home for life, so I must choose the dog/pup that I think is most likely to work well for me. That said, one of our three is adopted.

 

Kirsty - Good to see you here as well as on the other board!

[Moss]

Thanks Sue Nice to be here

[Samantha J]

Well for my case too it was a case of the Border Collies that we came across needing homes had some issues wether it be young children, dogs or other things. I have never had a Border Collie before and so i wasnt qualified enough to handle problems like those. Now maybe i would be more confident in dogs that have issues and unstable backgrounds.

I couldnt have given a home to a BC that would not be ok around children which unfortunatly was the case for most of the ones i came accross.

So as much as i would have loved to have one from the home it would not have suited me as an inexperienced BC owner.

I think if more checks were done to start with like we had before being allowed to have Holly then you wouldnt get nearly as many in these homes.

[Maralynn]

Sue and Kristy, I totally understand the need for buying a pup/dog that can work. I have sheep, and did that myself!

[Sherry Thoeny]

May I ask why it is so sad to see border collies specifically. I am saddened by any dog in the pound. I am not trying to start anything, I just keep seeing posts about too many BC in pound. And posts about how BC should not be bred just to have cute little puppies. That you should never get a BC from a backyard breeder. Now maybe it just comes across this way because we are on a Border Collie forum. But it seems to me that the pound and rescue facilities problem is with dogs in general not just border collies. Like I said I am not trying to start an argument. Just confused I guess.

[smileyzookie]

I agree its sad to see any dog in a shelter. I think that any dog who isnt special in its breed should not be bred. Or cat or anything. I think you see the BC issue because this is a board, but also because IMO these dogs are highly misunderstood, like pits but of course in a different way. I think these dogs end up in shelters because people dont do their research (I know I didnt!) and just go get dogs cause they dont know better. (Im actually of the opposite - I got Riven, and if I would have known all about BC's there's no way I would have gotten her. But thank God I didnt do my homework, she's the best dog and more than I could have ever dreamed ) Anywho - I dont think the OP is belittling other dogs, but maybe BC's hold a more special place in their heart.... I dunno.

[Guest WoobiesMom]

May I ask why it is so sad to see border collies specifically. I am saddened by any dog in the pound. I am not trying to start anything, I just keep seeing posts about too many BC in pound. And posts about how BC should not be bred just to have cute little puppies. That you should never get a BC from a backyard breeder. Now maybe it just comes across this way because we are on a Border Collie forum. But it seems to me that the pound and rescue facilities problem is with dogs in general not just border collies. Like I said I am not trying to start an argument. Just confused I guess.

 

Well, since I'm the OP, I guess it caught my eye because I had researched the breed before getting my mix boy from the shelter and because I'm spending a fair bit of time here. I also think it's very sad there are so many pit bulls and pit mixes in shelters for very different reasons (aggression, that terrier stubborness, etc).

 

But you're right, it's very sad for ALL of the animals. That's why I have 3 rescue animals. My other dog that passed away was a purebred, bought from a reputable breeder, because I needed a hypoallergenic dog for my son's allergies with a specific temperment for being good with my young children and protecting our home. I think there are good reasons on both sides of the argument for buying a purebred from a reputable breeder as well as rescuing.

[Anda]

Can't possibly comment on the delirium (they say dogs become like their owners, don't they? ), but the part about Kyla is true.

 

:D Sandra

 

True, but you don't often see me running with my tongue on my shoulder or jumping over bedrocks And the idea of my dog on caffeine... ohhh....

[Samantha J]

Just replying to Wobbliesmom - re good reasons on both sides for either reputable breeders or homes.

(sorry can not do the paste thing yet!)

I totally agree, it has got to be right for your own personal life to get a rescue dog from whatever breed. It would be different for an older couple/person to get say a rescue Border Collie whom they have no idea of background but they have experience in the breed and have no children to consider. That would be different to what someone else could offer with children so for them perhaps a pup would be better so they could socialise it properly to be ok with children.

If you are going to go for the pup then it is in my opinion better to go with the reputable breeder who is going to look at health issues in breeding too with hip scores tested and eye tests etc than someone doing it for the money only.

For me now a puppy was the best thing and the next dog we get will be the same however later in life i would be going for the rehoming option as long as i could give the dog what it needs.

[Samantha J]

Sorry -- Woobiesmom --

[Moss]

I think we are probably discussing BCs in rescue because this is a BC Board. In the UK collies (and collie crossbreeds) turn up in rescue an awful lot - but so do German Shepherds (and crosses) and at the moment there seem to be an awfully large amount of Staffordshire Bull Terriers. I doubt if anyone on here cares any less about other breeds in rescue, but as this is a BC discussion board and the BC is "our" breed, it is more relevant to talk of their plight.

[sandra s.]

True, but you don't often see me running with my tongue on my shoulder or jumping over bedrocks

 

A mental equivalent will do just fine . After all, I do not actually show my teeth to patronising male types, Kessie style, and I don't actually rip clumps of hair off them if they refuse to get the message...but, erm, you know...

 

 

I really can't understand the arguments that are often used for buying a pet dog, rather than rescuing one. And I get spitting mad when people give Kessie those doubtful looks when they hear she comes from a shelter. "What's wrong with her, then?".....!

 

First, why should I hope that a puppy raised by myself will turn out so much better (whatever "better" is) than all the other dogs out there? Geez, I wish I had that kind of self-belief! And it's often first time dog owners who have that belief, for some reason...

 

Second, I'm far (very far!) from being perfect myself, so why should I go shopping for perfection when looking for a friend?

 

Why is it such a bad thing if a dog has some "baggage"? We're all hurt, we're all wrecked, we're all flawed, we've got "baggage" coming out of our ears on both sides. It's considered normal for an adult human being to have been through ups and downs. Our dogs have to live with what we are. They surely don't fall for the normality facade that some people are so busy keeping up. They love us with all our "quirks", and with all their heart. WHY aren't they allowed to have some history of their own?

 

Ooopsie. End of rant.

 

I guess a lot of it comes down to people being uninformed about rescue dogs and the wide range of temperaments (including rock-solid, kid-resistant, cat-resistant, and everything else you could possibly ask for) that can be found among them, so let's flaunt ours for all they're worth .

[Melodyuk]

The thing is though aswell its easy to say people dont do research into the breed and they end up in a home.

 

 

So what would happen to all these dogs???? they would still be in a shelter or put to sleep eventually anyway because if people did look into they wouldnt take that dog.

 

 

So really its swings and roundabouts , if people looked into the breed or not there is still tooo many dogs to rehome, BC's are one of the highest rehomed breeds because of whats involved but it doesnt change the fact that there is nowhere near enough farms or working places for BC';s and so they become pets like Scampi.

 

The problem in my opinion initially lies with the breeders for all breeds that keep reproducing more puppies and increasing the homeless percentage each year.

[Samantha J]

In answer to Sandra S -

 

Well i dont know how it works for you in Germany but here in UK you cannot just go and fetch a rescue dog and rightly so.

I only have experience of one rescue centre although it is a big one dealing with cats etc too.

When you walk around the dogs that are there they all have a bit written about them outside of the cage.

A lot of the dogs there have major issues with children and cannot be rehomed to anyone with children under abot 12yrs, some even 16yrs. Now of course the centre does not know why these dogs do not get along with children. Unfortunately most i would think have been treaten very cruel for them to dislike children.

When you see a dog you like then you have to meet a few times with the dog including all of the family and a home visit by the home to see if you can give that dog a home.

So as mentioned before on this post if you have or plan to have children in the future you will more than likely not get a Border Collie. Now some might disagree and maybe they have had them at thier local rehoming centres that are ok with children but i have not found one at the one i went too.

It isnt just Border Collies though they have the age thing on other breeds do too. There are of course dogs that you can have but am i being selfish then because i personally wanted a Border Collie?

 

I agree partly with the just because you got a puppy it doesnt mean it wont have any issues, i have Holly and i have made mistakes and will probably make more but i know that every time she has met a child or a dog it has been a positive experience and she loves both so for me that has worked.

 

I am new to BCs too so i really would not have known how to handle a larger dog thats snarled, growled and was aggressive towards other dogs or people, that would have been selfish on my part as the dog would need someone who new more and had more experience.

[Moss]

I do agree with Sandra to a large extent. If I were looking for a companion dog only (rather than a worker) I would more than likely go to a good BC rescue who would match me with the right dog.

 

BC Rescue in North Yorkshire are marvellous, in that they don't let prospective owners choose the dog they like the look of, but they spend time getting to know the possible owner and family, find out about their lifestyle, what they will be doing with the dog, how long it will be left etc etc. They thoroughly assess all the dogs that come into their care and then they match the dog with the prospective new home. I am pleased to say that they also look for the best working homes for collies they feel need to work.

 

The problem in this country with many of the large rescue organisations is that they have so many rules and regulations about who can and cannot have a dog from them (and I do understand their reasons why) that it can put an awful lot of people even attempting to apply for a rescue dog.

 

It is correct though Sandra that I think many people who are perhaps less dog experienced feel rescue dogs may come with problems that they will be unable to straighten out and it worries them. I think the more experienced you get with dogs, the more comfortable you feel with having an older, rescue dog with a history. The funny thing is that many rescue dogs come with far less training issues than you will find in a puppy - no toilet training, teething, bad teenage behaviour. Dog socialisation can be a minefield! Making sure all socialisation is positive, trying not to put a young pup in a situation where it may become fearful, which it may carry into adulthood! The list goes on and on.

 

In the future, I am sure I will go to one of the BC breed rescue organisations for a companion. I would also like to volunteer some of my time to helping.

[sandra s.]

In answer to Sandra S -

 

Well i dont know how it works for you in Germany but here in UK you cannot just go and fetch a rescue dog and rightly so.

 

I understand that, and if you re-read my post, this was not on the list of reasons I disagree with.

I was lucky, because the people at the shelter where I got Kessie didn't do the "BCs need this, BCs need that" routine, but went looking for the things that Kessie needed. Otherwise, I don't think I'd ever have gotten involved with BCs at all.

 

I know many people feel unable to handle rescues with a "past", but as I said, I think it's just plain WRONG to say that they're all harder to handle than self-raised puppies. That doesn't make those people selfish, or evil, or stupid or whatever, but I wish that this public image of rescue dogs was different.

[Melodyuk]

I disagree with the public image being so bad, most people I know tried a rescue centre first...some suceeded and others not because of the rescue centres procedures ie having children under 14!

 

really it should be ok here is a dog... if your child is boisterous and wont leave him alone he may bite. Then surely its down to the people rehoming the dog to take responsibility for their children. Not every single dog is going to bite a child.... and also they are just as likely to bit someone elses child even if you dont have one yourself!

[pammyd]

I am undecided whether to rescue or get a puppy

But in a way if I get a puppy it will be a rescue too

Too many farmers here dont notice when the bitch is in season so they have many litters of puppies

I know one farmer - lovely guy but too soft harted, if he cant get a home for the pups he just keeps them

Sounds great - my friends really dithered about taking a pup from him because they were taking it away from a working life

One of the pups littermates was kept by the farmer, now at 11 months he has been to busy to really try her on sheep - and because of lambing she hasnt really been out much

So most of her day is in a shed with the other dogs, she is overweight and vv desperate for any affection

This was the bitches 2nd litter - 1st had 2 pups - both male, both were tied up in shed for over a year till farmer decided he couldnt train them and sent them away for training

I know many people consider sheep the only real life for a BC but I feel if there are any more surprise puppies I will be rescuing one if I take it - much better than being locked up for hours on end with nothing to do. I may not be the best owner in the world and I dont know everything but at least it would be with me and I would spend time looking after it and loving it

 

I cant comment if there are more BC in rescue here than in the USA but I think a reason there is so many is the dumb people wanting a cleaver dog who can do tricks but then thinking its OK never to walk a dog, and give it no training (except how to wear daft clothes) then when it stops being a puppy and has no manners cos you have taught it none then they are surprised cant cope and hand it back

[Maralynn]

I was lucky, because the people at the shelter where I got Kessie didn't do the "BCs need this, BCs need that" routine, but went looking for the things that Kessie needed. Otherwise, I don't think I'd ever have gotten involved with BCs at all.

 

I know many people feel unable to handle rescues with a "past", but as I said, I think it's just plain WRONG to say that they're all harder to handle than self-raised puppies. That doesn't make those people selfish, or evil, or stupid or whatever, but I wish that this public image of rescue dogs was different.

 

I agree! I got Missy as a rehome from a questionable breeder. He couldn't do anything with her, so he was giving her away. Yup, she has her issues. But after having her for a month or so, I began to see that some of the issues that she had, were also some of the ones that I had. Working with her has taught me alot about dogs and training in general, and a few things about myself. The most amazing thing is though, that this skittesh unsure dog, has blossomed into a dog that will try just about anything for me. She just needed someone she could trust and please, and someone who would be fair and consitent.

 

I do agree the the type of children not the age should be the deciding factor in placing a dog (when I got Miss, I was a college age student, living at home with 3, 5 and 9 y/o siblings. There have been a few nips, and "would you get your dog inside -she's grabbing our football" but to my family that was part of life. My siblings are now 14, 10 & 8 and they still love Missy and vise versa. Even though she still gets in the way during their ball games...

 

Kipp was a rehome from a working breeder (I purchased him after he had been returned to the breeder from his first home). The main thing his breeder was concerned about was that his dog would be getting a good home with work to do. I still don't have a fenced yard, and my dogs are still around preteen kids. And Kipp is a pretty balanced, fun loving dog who took his new life in stride. So I know there are dogs out there that need a home who are available if you're willing to provide for their basic needs, you just have to look outside the box.

 

I'm not crittizing anyone for the choices they have made, just pointing out that just because some avenues didn't work, it doesn't mean that it's impossible for you to get anything besides a buying a puppy.

[Melodyuk]

this is what I mean though if the puppy isnt bought then he/she is in the same situation as an older dog waiting to be homed because there are thusands of puppoesborn all the time.

 

its all outta control

[Beth G]

PammyD- Have you thought about rescuing the 11 month old pup stuck in that shed?

[Maralynn]

this is what I mean though if the puppy isnt bought then he/she is in the same situation as an older dog waiting to be homed because there are thusands of puppoesborn all the time

 

Not quite. Buying the pup still gives the money to the person who bred them irresponsibly. Anyone who buys a pup from an irresponsible breeder is encouraging them to breed more. As much as I love my Missy, if I had bought her as a pup from her breeder, I still would have been supporting a BYB. Now, I'll be the first to admit that if he had had pups for sale instead of a dog to give me, I quite possibly would have bought a pup, as I didn't know better at the time. It would not have changed the way I care about my dog, but it still would have been the wrong way to get a BC (or any dog for that matter).