Puppy at a petstore

[BC-Liz]

So the b/f and I frequent a local pet store to purchase feeder mice and crickets for our reptiles. This particular pet store still has those plastic windowed kennels full of dogs. One dog per kennel. They've always been little toy breeds, sometimes a sheltie (that was about as big as they got) and every time we go there I always check to see if they have a BC. Well 2 weeks ago my fears were realized. There in a little kennel, slightly sickly looking, was a beautiful white and black boy BC. The pet store said that he was ordered for someone and was being picked up the next day, thank god. Oh and there was a puppy yellow lab in the kennel next to him. This is the first time I've seen large breeds in this pet store. Anywho, b/f and I visit the petstore again this week for more food for the reptiles and there lays the little black and white boy, still in that damn tiny kennel (at least he was looking healthier). Apparently the people who had ordered him decided they didn't want a puppy BC any longer...surprised? I don't know, maybe they saw a pictures and said OH OH I want THAT ONE, ordered it, and then did research and found out they're a bit more to handle in the long run. Or maybe it was the fact that they were selling the pup for $850!!!!

 

So yesterday, when we saw him there, we were both upset for him and asked to see him. He was the sweetest little guy. SO happy to be getting attention. He's 8 weeks old, I found out they got him through a general kennel organization that must get dogs from all kinds of breeders b/c they said they got ALL their dogs from this same kennel...puppy farm much? He is so cute. He's a smooth coat with nice blaze, and a cow ear as I put it, and ticking. He's going to be a big boy, probably around 45 lbs (he's the same size Gunnar was when he was a puppy).

 

If he wasn't $850 we'd consider taking him home. But we just don't have the money or even the room for that. They said they'd lower his price every week until he was sold. Is there anything I can do? Go smack the breeder maybe?

 

Sigh...poor little guy.

[afrancis]

Oh boy, what a bummer, Liz.

I can't see most people spending that much for a pet store puppy of unknown origin, even if it is a "Babe" dog.

I know many have strong opinions about purchasing puppies from pet stores because it helps to perpetuate the so-called 'puppy mill' cycle. It is possible that someone purchases this pup and gives it a good home or that it gets marked down and then possibly, at some point, ends up being relinquished by its price-conscious buyer. As much as it pains me to say it, I wouldn't pay the full price to rescue that dog. I would probably wait and see what happens down the road and if it goes to an amount you feel comfortable with, buy him to keep or foster. Rescue people can chime in here and say that there are hundreds more where he came from and you can't stem the tide with one rescue. But maybe one at a time

I would be tempted to talk to the manager of that pet store, explain that you are a customer, and ask them about their source for the dogs. Tell them that you are alarmed at the quantity and health of the dogs they are selling, and that if they wanted to help the pet over-population problem rather than add to it, they might consider selling dogs and cats who come through the shelter system. You can also suggest that you might be buying your supplies elsewhere.

JM2cents.

Ailsa

[Bordercentrics]

Any dog special ordered from a pet store is from a PUPPY MILL. Some of them have papers from one registry or another, but if the breeder's name is investigated, he or she will turn out to be a puppy mill. Buying these dogs just support the puppy mill industry. If the price gets low enough, the store will lose money, and perhaps they will stay away from that situation in the future. You could always make an offer for a low price you can easily afford, and see if they will take it. After all, letting the pup go now will get them out of the expense of feeding and caring for it.

 

Aren't there any PetSmarts or Petcos near you where you can trade? I NEVER spend a plug nickel in a store that sells puppies.

 

Kathy Robbins

[Lenajo]

The worst thing you can do is buy the puppy. Regardless of what you say when you do, the bottom line is all that will be seen. And if the bottom line is "profit made", then the puppy's mother will produce another litter in the same circumstances. You save one, and da*n the Mom and 4-6 more puppies to the fate your puppy avoided.

 

What you can do, is bring a packet of BC information, and ask if you can include in the puppy's care packet. Simple lists of books and web addresses for help/advice, perhaps a small book on the breed, and a discrete business card for a local trainer you like. I've even left business cards with gift certificates for free training lessons...

 

Most stores will let you do that if you don't go at them like the are the devil. It doesn't solve the greater problem, but it does potentially actually help the puppy as an individual. I would also talk with the manager about your concerns about the puppy's health, and how it potentially could create a bad name for his store because the breed does not typically make a good pet for the average public. Remember to aim the conversation at what matters most to that person - what sells, what gives them a good reputation (and equals sales of products - ideally non-living products), with a dose of humane....

 

Poor puppy. He'll be in my thoughts and prayers.

[BC-Liz]

Any dog special ordered from a pet store is from a PUPPY MILL. Some of them have papers from one registry or another, but if the breeder's name is investigated, he or she will turn out to be a puppy mill. Buying these dogs just support the puppy mill industry. If the price gets low enough, the store will lose money, and perhaps they will stay away from that situation in the future. You could always make an offer for a low price you can easily afford, and see if they will take it. After all, letting the pup go now will get them out of the expense of feeding and caring for it.

 

Aren't there any PetSmarts or Petcos near you where you can trade? I NEVER spend a plug nickel in a store that sells puppies.

 

Kathy Robbins

 

Unfortunately, they are the only pet store around that sells feeder mice. I can look around, maybe one in Raleigh does too.

 

It definitely sounded like a puppy mill. She said something about BJ's yada yada and that they get all the puppies from their breeders. So it sounds like this BJ's place contracts breeders to produce puppies when requested. We saw him the day he got into the pet store, he was pretty thin for a puppy but he's fattened up a bit (probably from being stuck in a kennel all day ).

 

I dont' want to support a puppy mill. Maybe I'll just offer to take the puppy if they can't get anyone to buy. I'm pretty sure the puppy mill has already made the sale since the pet store had to buy it from them but at least if the pet store doesn't sell him for what they want, they'll be less likely to order another one. They weren't reluctant to give me information on him so maybe I can get the name of the breeder.

[beachdogz]

What you can do, is bring a packet of BC information, and ask if you can include in the puppy's care packet. Simple lists of books and web addresses for help/advice, perhaps a small book on the breed, and a discreet business card for a local trainer you like. I've even left business cards with gift certificates for free training lessons...

 

That has to be the BEST idea I have ever heard of. What a GREAT idea.

[painted_ponies]

I dont' want to support a puppy mill. Maybe I'll just offer to take the puppy if they can't get anyone to buy. I'm pretty sure the puppy mill has already made the sale since the pet store had to buy it from them but at least if the pet store doesn't sell him for what they want, they'll be less likely to order another one.

 

What do pet stores do with pups who don't sell? Does anyone know?

 

Liz, in your place I think I'd ask the store manager what will happen to the little guy if no one buys him. If they're going to just get rid of him for free, then maybe you could leave your contact info - or CBCR's.

 

Is this a chain store or a Mom-and-Pop? If the owner's on the premises, maybe you could talk him/her out of continuing to sell pups -maybe make them aware, in a nice way, of how many people refuse to shop at stores that sell puppies, especially since the Oprah show on puppy mills. If the owner can be convinced s/he'd attract the same amount or even more business with less overhead, maybe you can deprive the puppy mills of a regular customer.

 

Oh, and be careful about walking around the puppy area in a pet store. All pet stores that sell puppies have/have had/and will have again pups with parvo, coccidia, and etc. You might want to have a dedicated pair of pet store shoes that you leave somewhere outside your dogs' area.

[BC-Liz]

I'll talk to the pet store manager when I'm there next week for more reptile food (I want to keep an eye on the little guy for now). I'll ask him about the owner and the place they get their puppies from. It is a mom and pop type place but I'm not sure that the owner is always there. Either he works like everyone else, or I just never see him (or her).

 

I'll leave my info and...well....who's the contact for cbcr? The info sheet in his care package sounds like a good idea too.

 

Didn't know about the parvo thing. I figured they all had to have their shots before going to a pet store. Geez...my dogs have their immunizations though so...shouldn't they be ok?

[jrid]

Several years ago, I broke the rule about not buying from a pet store. The pup was a 6 month old ACD. I could not leave her and to this day I don't regret buying her. She was on "sale". When I bought her she had never walked through a doorway, had never walked on pavement, had never walked on grass. She had never had the opportunity to run and the first time she tried to run she pronked like a gazelle. She had never had a drink of water from anything other than a lick bottle. She had spent her first 6 months in a space the size of a 300 vari kennel. Everything new thing she encountered was like a wonder to her. I enjoyed being with her as she experienced all those new things. I know it was the incorrect thing to do and I always advise people not to purchase their dogs from a pet store, but sometimes you just got to break the rules and do what you heart tells you to do.

 

I never, ever went back into that store.

[sea4th]

Parvo? Years ago, I used a vet who had "Petland" as one of his clients. I was there several times when an employee of Petland came in with several crates of pups because of a parvo outbreak.

 

What a sad story about your ACD. Just out of curiousity, how did she turn out -- mentally and physically? I used to teach obedience classes with a local OB club and I remember that out of the students we had who had purchased their dogs as a pup from a petstore, almost all reported housebreaking issues. That might or might not be telling, but I don't think it would be unusual, considering the dubious beginnings of these pet store pups.

 

I wonder what the "general kennel club" they were referring to, is. The Hunt Corp.?

 

Personally, I wouldn't spend my money at any place that sells pups, and I'd tell them why. Good idea about trying to educate them, but until they stop selling pups, I'd tell them I'm taking my business elsewhere and I will spread the word to others. No sense in just not going anymore. I want them to know why. Mom & pop or Petland, buying pups from a pet store perpetuates the cycle.

 

Wonder what happens once they get past the cute and "sellable" stage. Do we even want to know?

[in2adventure]

We have a store like this in my hometown. I refuse to take a free sample of dog food from them, let alone buy anything. I have reptiles and order my mice online. What I pay in shipping is peace of mind knowing I'm not supporting a crappy store owner.

 

I ran into the same problem last year at this time. While checking the store for BC's, I saw a b/w female behind the glass. She was A LOT older than the other pups and when I inquired about her, the girl practically wanted to give her to me. I explaned I would not buy the dog under any circumstance and if she couldn't be sold to call me. She said the store owner would probably work something out with me on Monday (it was Fri) when she came back. On Sun I went in to check on her and she had been sold on Sat night Needless to say, I was pissed. But they assured me they would NEVER get another BC because she was too much work (she came in sick and was a terror when she got well)

 

Maybe you caould offer to rescue the pup if they don't sell him. Puppies don't sell in those kind of places after a certain age.

[Lizmo]

The worst thing you can do is buy the puppy. Regardless of what you say when you do, the bottom line is all that will be seen. And if the bottom line is "profit made", then the puppy's mother will produce another litter in the same circumstances. You save one, and da*n the Mom and 4-6 more puppies to the fate your puppy avoided.

 

What you can do, is bring a packet of BC information, and ask if you can include in the puppy's care packet. Simple lists of books and web addresses for help/advice, perhaps a small book on the breed, and a discrete business card for a local trainer you like. I've even left business cards with gift certificates for free training lessons...

 

This is good advice. I hope you'll take it, BC-Liz.

 

I, too, wouldn't buy the pup. I don't like seeing any pups in those situations, but I think i'd especially break my heart to see a little BC pup. It would take everything in me to leave the store and leave a BC pup their without crying or buying the pup.

 

I hate those dang stores.

 

Also, I wouldn't shop their anymore. Just my opinion, though.

[jrid]

The ACD I purchased from the petstore turned out to be a bright, sweet, anxious to please dog. She did have house breaking issues, but I expected those since she had lived where she pooped for the 1st 6 months of her life. Unfortunately the dogs I had at the time I purchased her hated her and there were numerous fights. I did not free her from one living hell to have to exist in another so I gave her to a couple who are friends of mine and she has lived with them for the last 9+ years. I see her every week so I know how she is getting along. She loves to play ball and ride in the gator to go feed the cows. She is happy and she is loved.

[in2adventure]

The ACD I purchased from the petstore turned out to be a bright, sweet, anxious to please dog. She did have house breaking issues, but I expected those since she had lived where she pooped for the 1st 6 months of her life. Unfortunately the dogs I had at the time I purchased her hated her and there were numerous fights. I did not free her from one living hell to have to exist in another so I gave her to a couple who are friends of mine and she has lived with them for the last 9+ years. I see her every week so I know how she is getting along. She loves to play ball and ride in the gator to go feed the cows. She is happy and she is loved.

 

We are not saying that all the pet store pups sold are bad, we are saying that BUYING the pup from a pet store supports puppy mills, crappy breeding practices, poor healthcare in the dog, etc. It's great you got a nice dog, but if you had gotten her from a good breeder, you would have had training support to help her blend into your home and they would have taken her back and placed her in a home less stressfull if you couldn't. I know you found her a good home, but this is a very rare case under the circumstance.

[ScottM]

Nearly 20 years agao I worked at a pet store in a mall. My primary focus was on the fish end of pets at the time but I was also responsible for selling puppies. We would take orders for virtually ANY breed and and have it available with 2 weeks! I didn't realize it at the time but only a large scale operation with multiple puppy mills could accomplish such a feat.

 

Never buy a puppy from a pet store. I know how it feels when you see that 14 week old puppy that can barely move in his tiny cage but you won't be doing the hundreds if not thousands of puppies that will follow him, any favours if you take him home.

 

Scott

[juliepoudrier]

We are not saying that all the pet store pups sold are bad, we are saying that BUYING the pup from a pet store supports puppy mills, crappy breeding practices, poor healthcare in the dog, etc. It's great you got a nice dog, but if you had gotten her from a good breeder, you would have had training support to help her blend into your home and they would have taken her back and placed her in a home less stressfull if you couldn't. I know you found her a good home, but this is a very rare case under the circumstance.

I believe you're misunderstanding Jackie's post. In her original post she made it clear that she knows buying from a pet store is bad and that in fact she never went back to that store. Her second post was simply a reply to someone who asked what happened to the ACD in the end. I don't think Jackie actually *wanted* an ACD--she felt sorry for this particular puppy in this particular pet store, broke the cardinal rule and bought it, and then found a good home for it when she found that it didn't fit in well with her pack. While we can fault Jackie for the initial purchase, her story is not an indication of her ability to manage the dog as part of her pack or some sort of object lesson for other puppy purchasers....

 

J.

[in2adventure]

Apparently I missed her ealier post. I just saw the last post and responded to it. I've re-read the other post she wrote and understand she's not supporting the store.

[Jo&Tex]

My Loki is a puppy mill dog from Quebec. He's a blue merle, from a candy colour breeder who wasn't concerned about producing a deaf pup or two in every litter. When she couldn't sell the deafies, she'd plop them in the local shelter in St Anne. I think Loki was the third or fourth pup she dumped this way.

 

Loki was in the puppy mill until he was 3 months old. He was adopted from the shelter a t 5 months by a family with 3 boys aged, 9, 10 and 13. I suspect they introduced him to a laser pointer. Hse lasted 6 weeks in that home, then he went back to the shelter. An Aussie rescue popped him at 8 mos of age and he made his way into Ontario and BCRO and then to me.

 

Being very undersocialized has led to way more issues than just being deaf could ever create. I'm happy to say he's doing very well with me but he will always be a weird little dog. Being confined for so long created an OCD situation that I will never break him of out - the best I can do is give him a great quality of life and love him for who he is.

[sea4th]

The ACD I purchased from the petstore turned out to be a bright, sweet, anxious to please dog. She did have house breaking issues, but I expected those since she had lived where she pooped for the 1st 6 months of her life. Unfortunately the dogs I had at the time I purchased her hated her and there were numerous fights. I did not free her from one living hell to have to exist in another so I gave her to a couple who are friends of mine and she has lived with them for the last 9+ years. I see her every week so I know how she is getting along. She loves to play ball and ride in the gator to go feed the cows. She is happy and she is loved.

 

I was curious of any behavioral and/or physical issues she might have had as a result of where she came from. I'm glad she's living a happy life. She deserves no less, but D--N the low lifes that produced her.

 

As far as what happens to the petstore pups once they outgrow their cute and sellable stage -- I'd like to know what happens to them as well, but years ago I read a book called "The Pet Profiteers". It was written back in the '70's, I think, so things have probably changed a lot, but in that book, in the chapter on pet stores, the author cites one pet store somewhere in New England who disposed of their unsold pups in a trash compacter. Let's hope they were dead first.

 

Pet stores profit from ignorance, willful and otherwise.

 

Just recently though, I read that Petland finally admitted to getting their puppies from mills. That was a happy statement from the HSUS, which makes me want to dig into the situation even more, because I don't trust either side.

[painted_ponies]

Didn't know about the parvo thing. I figured they all had to have their shots before going to a pet store. Geez...my dogs have their immunizations though so...shouldn't they be ok?

 

I don't know what the regs are, but at least when I worked for a pet store, many many moons ago, the pups came in without shots and were sold without them. Parvo and coccidia and other pet store quimbies are usually puppy diseases, so probably your vaccinated adults would be ok. However; being a paranoid owner I keep a dedicated pair of shoes to wear to places likely to have sick pups, and I always wash my hands and whatever I'm wearing before handling my own dogs. No vaccine's 100%. And stuff like giardia can affect humans, too.

 

I spent many a night in the pet store, sitting up with sick pups and giving them fluids (for no pay). We never lost a pup the whole time I was there, but I quit after a few months because I got tired of being a patsy and working overtime for free - the employees weren't allowed enough time to feed and clean up during their paid shifts, but I couldn't clock out and go home and leave hungry dirty critters. Anyway, the sleep deprivation started affecting my grades.

 

But the experience convinced me that pet stores should not sell puppies, kittens or doG forbid, parrots (whole nother story).

[BustopherJones]

What do pet stores do with pups who don't sell? Does anyone know?

You don't want to know. Because if we all did, with our love of dogs we would wind up trying to rescue every pet store puppy that was on "Final Clearance". I don't shop at pet stores that sell puppies for that very reason; either I wind up with a broken heart, or with a puppy that I know will be a problem (and yes, I have been stupid enough in the distant past to fall into that trap).

[Lenajo]

What do pet stores do with pups who don't sell? Does anyone know?

 

One of the local pet suppliers puts locks on their trash bins now. Too many prying eyes from the humane groups. A few others keep very large pet snakes. Does that tell you anything?

 

Others mark the pups down until they go for $19.99 Usually at 4-5 months of age.

[BC-Liz]

Now I'm really torn. I guess I'll be searching for another supplier of feeder mice for one thing because you all make a good point. By going to that pet store, I'm supporting all their actions. They have the best bones for the dogs though...hope I can find them elsewhere too.

 

I won't be purchasing the pup but I will offer to adopt him if they don't sell him and I'll bring in that info packet next week. What's also terrible...is they have a little sign on the lab and BC's kennel saying "A puppy for Christmas?". Maybe I can get the info on the breeder and see if it's a puppy mill and maybe get it shut down. Wouldn't that be nice.

 

Thank you all for your thoughts and comments. I hope I'll have good news next week.

[Lizmo]

One of the local pet suppliers puts locks on their trash bins now. Too many prying eyes from the humane groups. A few others keep very large pet snakes. Does that tell you anything?

 

Off topic, I know, but OMG! Is that Wet Pets?

[MrSnappy]

Generally they will continue to lower the price until the puppy sells.

 

In other instances, they return them to the broker, as they can get a credit for an "unpopular item." The broker may then sell it at an auction back to another miller. Or it may euthanize the dog.

 

Milled puppies are very cheap. Millers make their money in volume sales, not in pricey sales per puppy. Brokers operate similarly, which is why when a percentage of puppies die en route from broker to pet stores, it's no big loss. It is the pet stores that make the biggest mark up, so it's in their best interests to keep the pup and keep trying to get as much money for it as they can.

 

Rarely do they give them away or dump them at a shelter, because if they did people would stop buying the pups and wait for them to go on super sale / free mode / end up in the shelter. That's the fear, anyway, according to our local chain.

 

RDM