Puppy at a petstore

[Lenajo]

Off topic, I know, but OMG! Is that Wet Pets?

 

no, another local town. However, WP has been putting out milled puppies for years though, and the pups are usually in awful shape when I go in there (which I try to not do, but sometimes morbid curiousity gets me). They do sell Border Collies, but you can't find out the pedigre unless you buy the puppy.

 

DreamPuppies is gross too.

[Lizmo]

no, another local town. However, WP has been putting out milled puppies for years though, and the pups are usually in awful shape when I go in there (which I try to not do, but sometimes morbid curiousity gets me). They do sell Border Collies, but you can't find out the pedigre unless you buy the puppy.

 

DreamPuppies is gross too.

 

Never heard of DreamPuppies. Not sure I even want to find out. *sigh* WP is SICK I've only been in there once and never went back.

[ErinKate]

I mean this in the best way possible----

You buy that puppy, and you make room for the next. You are letting the "breeder" know there is supply and demand. You are also letting the pet store know that they have cause to buy again from the puppy mill. They are all money driven. If no one buys the puppies from that store, they are going to quit buying puppies because they can't sell them, they aren't making any money.

I feel for you though. Years ago I saw a broken coat JRT in a pet store that was the CUTEST thing I ever saw. I took him out and played with him. He was stunning. However, when you looked at his feet, his toes were splayed. I am guessing from standing on wire cage since day one! I did not get him, but I still think about him to this day!

[BC-Liz]

I mean this in the best way possible----

You buy that puppy, and you make room for the next. You are letting the "breeder" know there is supply and demand. You are also letting the pet store know that they have cause to buy again from the puppy mill. They are all money driven. If no one buys the puppies from that store, they are going to quit buying puppies because they can't sell them, they aren't making any money.

I feel for you though. Years ago I saw a broken coat JRT in a pet store that was the CUTEST thing I ever saw. I took him out and played with him. He was stunning. However, when you looked at his feet, his toes were splayed. I am guessing from standing on wire cage since day one! I did not get him, but I still think about him to this day!

 

I really don't have any intention of buying the puppy. I thought I'd made that clear. I'm going to offer the info to be put in with his care package and leave my name/number if they need help placing him in a rescue or whatnot. We'll be going to get more snake and cricket food later this week. I'll let you all know if I see him there again. Thank you for all your advice and opinions.

[Smokjbc]

Hello,

 

Our clinic has had contracts with local petstores before- we ended the last one about three years ago, just could not put up with the petstore owners or the horrid business anymore. However, I will say this- the petstore owners were usually concerned about the health and comfort of the pups while in their care. Very few puppies got returned to the broker, if there was a serious congenital defect or parvo/distemper- they were usually euthanized at our hopsital. They often signed over treatable dogs to us to fix and adopt out. My doctor's parents had a basset that we did $3000 worth of surgery on her legs and then kept her. No puppy didn't sell- there are always buyers who just want "a puppy" but don't want to pay $1000 plus for it. That may be area-specific- there is a sadly high demand for puppies here and few responsible breeders. So even if they sell the pup at cost with no warranty, the pup will find a home. Unfortunately, a home that probably could not afford to adopt one from the shelter and save a life, and will not be able to afford to care for the pup during it's lifetime.

 

Hate petstores, hate the puppy business- but just wanted to give a little insider's view of what happens to puppies. I've only seen a few border collies come out of any of the petstores we dealt with- most had toy breeds and designer mutts. Worst inappropriate sell I saw was a young couple, new baby, living in an apartment were sold two St. Bernard puppies (both infected with Giardia). That didn't last long...

[BC-Liz]

Final update on puppy at petstore. We've been watching him grow every week, getting bigger and bigger and bigger (and cuter, full upright ears! love em). Anyways, we went into the petstore today for the usual mouse and crickets, expecting to see the little guy, and sure enough there he was. So I knelt down and watched him for a minute and then this little boy came up to me and said, that's my puppy! Apparently he and his family (father, mother, and another brother) had just bought him (he was $399 at that point) and were taking him home tonight. So Steven (DBF) and I unloaded as much knowledge on them as possible including informing them about these forums, how much exercise he'll need, about how big he'll get, a good local vet, the beauty of a chuck-it, the heartworm allergy, how to crate rain, and left them with our phone numbers and names, and the request to get together for play dates. Hopefully they'll call if they have questions or issues. They seemed like good people...had a GSD for many years that died from lymphoma. The kids were already at least 5 or 6, and the mom will be home most of the time except for two days that she's in class.

 

I'm very happy that he finally has a home, but I so wished that the petstore had learned their lesson. Also wish there was another petstore that sold live feeder mice. Anywho, if anyone cared, there's the update.

[afrancis]

That's really great Liz. Thanks for the update!

I'll join you in crossing my fingers that the little guy goes to his happy forever home. And REALLY good on you for loading them down with such great information. Hopefully they'll take you up on those play dates so you can keep (us ) up to date with his progress!

Ailsa

[Lizmo]

I'm glad for the update I hope they will give you a call for a play date so you can help them out.

 

I wish the best to the new onwers and pup!

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

Well for the puppy's sake, I am glad that you were there to tell them some info, they may have otherwise never have known. Bless you for giving them your phone number! People are actually quite receptive to that kind of stuff. I do follow-up calls for the dogs that get adopted from the rescue I volunteer for and when I tell them they can call me anytime, with any questions or concerns, you can almost here a sigh of relief. People like knowing they have someone to talk to if they need it! (and you'd be surprised that it's the men I have a hard time getting off the phone with!!!) Perhaps we will find them on here one of these days!

[SincereArtisan]

Depending upon your snakes, you could try gradually switching them to frozen/thawed (safer for the snakes) then ordering your rodents and crickets online.

 

I understand many snakes can be picky feeders (I have 45 of them, after all ) But, often its quite easy switching to feeding frozen thawed, and you'll save oodles of money buying frozen rodents online.

[BC-Liz]

Depending upon your snakes, you could try gradually switching them to frozen/thawed (safer for the snakes) then ordering your rodents and crickets online.

 

I understand many snakes can be picky feeders (I have 45 of them, after all ) But, often its quite easy switching to feeding frozen thawed, and you'll save oodles of money buying frozen rodents online.

 

We get out feeder mice for about $1.50 a mouse, once a week. Are frozen mice much cheaper? She's been fed live mice her whole life...how do you go about switching them? don't u have to wiggle the thawed one? I have absolutely no idea. The whole snake thing is new to me since it's my b/fs snake and not mine. I just feed her once in a while. Wow 45 snakes?! Are they all hand friendly?

 

I hope they call us for play dates too. I'd love to get a pic of him to show everyone. He is so cute and such a love bug.

[painted_ponies]

Great news, Liz. Well, for the puppy, anyways. I'm glad he's getting a home.

(Really sorry that another unneutered puppy mill pup has turned a profit for someone who deals in misery and is now out there to add to the overpopulation problem. But glad for the pup.)

 

BTW, what heartworm allergy?

[BC-Liz]

BTW, what heartworm allergy?

 

The whole Collie allergy to Ivermectin and it's close derivatives. I know several people on this forum have found research that says BC's don't share that gene with other Collie breeds but I don't agree, specifically because Rhea has seizures when we use close ivermectin derivatives. She can only be on sentinel and interceptor and we can't use any flea and tick shampoo. So that's what I told them, that Collie's should stay away from Heartguard/Ivermectin and gave them two other heartworm pills (the ones I've already named for Rhea) to use in its stead.

 

I'm worried that me posting this will spawn all sorts of backlash, or an argument or a slew of posts saying I'm wrong or something....

 

ETA:

Yeah I'm sorry another puppy mill puppy is out there too. I had hoped he wouldn't be bought and they would have to relinquish him to us (we offered to take him, for no money, every time we were in there). They have an Aussie now too :-(

[painted_ponies]

Oh. OK, thanks for clarifying. I thought you meant an allergy to heartworms.

 

I'm certainly not going to tell you you're wrong about your own dog. However, I don't agree that border collies in general are ivermectin-sensitive. And I wish that I'd argued with my last vet, who believes they are. He insisted on using Interceptor as a microfilaricide following Scot's treatment for adult heartworms, which caused Scot to go into anaphylactic shock - not an uncommon reaction to mass microfilarial death.

[BC-Liz]

haha sorry for misspeaking (mystyping?) I meant heartguard allergy. I suppose every dog as an "allergy" to heartworms. Yikes with the anaphylactic shock, did the interceptor cause that?

[painted_ponies]

haha sorry for misspeaking (mystyping?) I meant heartguard allergy. I suppose every dog as an "allergy" to heartworms. Yikes with the anaphylactic shock, did the interceptor cause that?

 

Not in itself, no. But apparently the Interceptor causes a much bigger die-off all at once than invermectin would've. What causes the anaphylactic shock is the dog reacting to all those dead larvae - or more specifically, a little critter that lives on the larva. Many vets now prescribe prophylactic antibiotics prior to beginning heartworm treatment, to head this off.

 

But my [ex]vet? He said, "Oh, no worries. What could he possibly react to?" Luckily for Scot, I didn't believe my vet and gave the Interceptor on a day when I could watch him closely and when knucklehead exvet had a substitute. The sub vet said he doesn't use immiticide (for adult heartworms) or moxidectin oxime for microfilariae. He treats both with maintenance doses of ivermectin and waits the two years or so for the infection to completely clear. He says gradual worm death is lots less risky for the host.

[juliepoudrier]

Liz,

I'm not going to start an argument with you, but you say Rhea can be on Interceptor, and yet Interceptor is in the same chemical class as ivermectin, which would imply that Rhea is *not* sensitive to close relatives of ivermectin. I always post a link to the American Working Collie Association site because it provides a good discussion regarding ivermectin sensitivity and the other related drugs to which dogs with the mdr1-1delta mutation can react. You will note that Interceptor is on the list, as are some other surprising drugs (e.g., Immodium). You will also find information about the fact that even collies (Lassie type) that have the mutation can tolerate ivermectin and Interceptor at HW prophylactic doses. Note that selamectin (Revolution) is also on the list of drugs that can cause reactions in dogs sensitive to certain chemicals because of the mdr1-1delta mutation. At any rate, the fact that Rhea reacts specifically to Heartguard (I presume) but not to related chemicals like Interceptor might be some odd quirk of hers, unrelated the the whole "collie sensitivity" thing that is the result of the mdr1-1delta mutation. Just a thought....

 

Here's the link to the American Working Collie Association website's page on drug sensitivity. It's very informative reading. (For specifics on drug sensitivity and drugs that may be a concern, read the bulleted items in the middle of the page.)

 

J.

[BC-Liz]

Liz,

I'm not going to start an argument with you, but you say Rhea can be on Interceptor, and yet Interceptor is in the same chemical class as ivermectin, which would imply that Rhea is *not* sensitive to close relatives of ivermectin. I always post a link to the American Working Collie Association site because it provides a good discussion regarding ivermectin sensitivity and the other related drugs to which dogs with the mdr1-1delta mutation can react. You will note that Interceptor is on the list, as are some other surprising drugs (e.g., Immodium). You will also find information about the fact that even collies (Lassie type) that have the mutation can tolerate ivermectin and Interceptor at HW prophylactic doses. Note that selamectin (Revolution) is also on the list of drugs that can cause reactions in dogs sensitive to certain chemicals because of the mdr1-1delta mutation. At any rate, the fact that Rhea reacts specifically to Heartguard (I presume) but not to related chemicals like Interceptor might be some odd quirk of hers, unrelated the the whole "collie sensitivity" thing that is the result of the mdr1-1delta mutation. Just a thought....

 

Here's the link to the American Working Collie Association website's page on drug sensitivity. It's very informative reading. (For specifics on drug sensitivity and drugs that may be a concern, read the bulleted items in the middle of the page.)

 

J.

 

I knew something like this would come up. I agree that there is literature out there saying that collies (proven to have that gene mutation) can still have the regular dose of ivermectin. Rhea actually had the reaction of Revolution the first time, I had a post in he health and genetics section when it first happened. And now that I'm home I see that they are actually on Sentinel and not Interceptor. That was just what our vet told us. I'm not saying all BC's have this sensitivity, but I felt it was something worth mentioning. It didn't seem like they knew anything about this subject so if the worst I did was make them aware of the issue and possible research it then I'm happy. Thanks for the link, always good to learn more.