afrancis Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 wow - I just found the really good forum! This is the "urban legend" one -- the one that you find out about late at night when you're goofing around and think, "Hey I'll look over here and see what's going on" -- yeah, I know it's Friday night and I should be out actually doing something . Suffice it to say I just read the thread about "neurotic dogs" and "clueless owners" and the Jon Katz thread (who I had never heard of...) and really appreciate the candour, intelligence (I mean it) and passion of all you guys. I always thought that its entirely possible that the more you give a bc to do, the more it will demand...I also wondered why so many people give me that "poor you" look when I tell them, "yes, she's a border collie". It's like, is there something I'm missing here? She doesn't seem crazy to me -- in fact, she's a much more normal dog than so many others I see at the park. And I'm not even a Republican (or Conservative up here!) I wanted to preface this question by saying first: I have had some behaviour and health questions so far pertaining to Skye (on the General forum, but I see many of you are here as well) and have, if I haven't already, wanted to thank you all for your great comments and suggestions. I appreciate the time and thought it takes to write in. I am very much a novice as a dog person, although I have loved dogs since I was a child and could only have gerbils and iguanas since other family members were all allergic! Hence I have lived with two bcs in succession for the past 15 + years. Question: I know he's not a BC-only phenomenon but I wanted to ask for peoples' take on the End of my Leash guy. I do have an opinion, but I'm a coward about giving it right off the bat..... Ailsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tualizzy Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 I think he's a bully! And turn the channel as fast a possible when I see his show come on 'cause I can't stand how he treats the dogs. He's cruel and breaks their spirit to get the behaviour he desires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Question: I know he's not a BC-only phenomenon but I wanted to ask for peoples' take on the End of my Leash guy. I do have an opinion, but I'm a coward about giving it right off the bat..... I'm not familiar with him. Is he on cable somewhere or does he have a book out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northof49 Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Brad Pattison, as far as I am concerned is a total psycho when it comes to dog training. He had/has 13 part series is on Slice tv channel. I don't know if you get it in the States. His website is even scarier - one of the reason he claims you should not give treats to dogs is that it teaches them to bite children's fingers off. Even scarier is that he lives in Calgary. He uses solely punishment and punitive training techiniques. Apparently because he has "studied" wolves, coyotes and foxes in the wild he understands dogs. Someone I highly doubt it. Wolf packs in the wild are tight family units, not a bunch of unrelated wolves living together, and how coyotes and foxes relate to dogs I have no idea. In one session that I had the unfortunate chance to see, he turns his Aussie loose in the back yard with a dog that is known to have dog agression issues. Needless to say, the dog attacked his. He finally decided to pull them apart and he totally ignored his own dog. He drags the other dog by the collar. It is scared shitless, and it is screaming and throwing itself on the ground. He is trying to get it to sit, but it is so scared it can't. He tells them that the dog is extremely agressive and dangerous and if he doesn't intrevene the dog is going to visciously attacked someone by the time it is 3 years old. This whole time he has ignored his dog that is wandering around the yard. Then he proceeds to tell the family that he is deeply offended because the didn't even ask if his dog had been hurt. Why would they when he didn't even bother to check the dog out. They would have only been following his lead. If he didn't give a damn about his own dog, why would they think the dog had been hurt. The dog was just a basic dog that had never been trained to have no manners, had never been socialized with other dogs and ran out the door when given the opportunity. Nothing that some basic training and counterconditioning wouldn't have worked for. And he is totally negative with the people and install cameras in their houses to catch them doing things wrong and then he rakes them over the coals about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Brad Pattison, as far as I am concerned is a total psycho when it comes to dog training. He had/has 13 part series is on Slice tv channel. I don't know if you get it in the States. His website is even scarier - one of the reason he claims you should not give treats to dogs is that it teaches them to bite children's fingers off. Even scarier is that he lives in Calgary. He uses solely punishment and punitive training techiniques. Ohmigosh! Why can't television find some reasonable trainers? I understand the more sensational, the more they think people will watch but to put animals through that treatment and tell viewers this is how you should treat dogs, well that's just unconscionable. I like It's Me or the Dog on Animal Planet. The trainer uses humane methods that most of her clients can learn (a couple have not been quite all there). She tends to get screechy at the people and can be a bit dramatic, but I still enjoy the show. There was just a special episode It's Me or the Fat Dog where she worked with three families to trim down their obese pooches. One of the families just couldn't do it (the dog actually gained weight), so she sent the dog to "fat camp." It came back looking pretty good but I'd bet anything the family will let the dog pack all the pounds back on. The mother couldn't even figure out not to leave her garbage out in plastic bags, hanging in very easy reach of the dog. She was one of those owners who act completely helpless about gaining even the slightest control over their dogs. Anyway, sure hope Brad P. doesn't show up on TV in the States. Yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted February 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 "I think he's a bully!" YES. I totally agree. He makes me very uncomfortable. I mentioned him here because he is the "other" option on tv here besides The Dog Whisperer, Cesar. "Brad Pattison, as far as I am concerned is a total psycho when it comes to dog training. He had/has 13 part series is on Slice tv channel. I don't know if you get it in the States." I didn't realize that he's Canadian -- now I really feel sick . I agree with you that he is totally whacko in regards to dog training and abusive with both dogs and people. I am amazed that his show continues to be on the air, actually. "In one session that I had the unfortunate chance to see, he turns his Aussie loose in the back yard with a dog that is known to have dog agression issues. Needless to say, the dog attacked his." I also saw this episode and couldn't believe he did this to his own dog. What??!! He should be reported. "Anyway, sure hope Brad P. doesn't show up on TV in the States. Yikes." Yes. Or anyone else like him. A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airbear Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 I saw one episode and all I have to say is that he should go to therapy of some sort. He is a very angry little man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunshian Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 LOl "angry little man" that really made me laugh!!! I always wonder what his deal is. Isn't he the one that tries to "fix" the relationships between the humans as well? Does he even have any training in the field of human relationships? I didn't realize he was Canadian either. that's unfortunate. What days/nights does Animal PLanet show Its Me Or The Dog? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anda Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 It's Me or The Dog was on last night - the rumbunctious Great Dane pup and Doberman - I really like Victoria Stilwell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 TV is the last place you're going to see good dog training because, well, good dog training is kind of boring and takes a longish time -- certainly more than the 18 minutes of programming that's available in a 30-minute network time slot. Audiences apparently love to see an "expert" trash the people he or she is supposed to be helping. Look at "What not to Wear" or "Queer Eye" or any of the scores of home organization shows, all of which thrive on manufactured conflict and drama. They're just extending the format to dog training. Kill your television. It's the only thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 TV is the last place you're going to see good dog training because, well, good dog training is kind of boring and takes a longish time -- certainly more than the 18 minutes of programming that's available in a 30-minute network time slot. Hear hear! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pammyd Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I like victoria stillwell But sad to say Ch4 have stopped making it cos they got a new director and he decided to get rid of some shows I thought its me or the dog had started being screened in the USA because the last series did get a bit more showey - if you can find old episodes its much better But that means that now we are stuck with bullies Mainly we have Cesar and dog borstal - which is only slightly better - but cos they are on TV that is how everyone thinks dogs should be trained But all you get is a scared robot dog There is a dog at Bens agility class like that - does exactly what it is told when it is told it with no enjoyment of anything I much prefer my daft little mutt who is always trying to figure out if I really ment what I said (like - 'down' 'now do you mean right down, how about my butt in the air? sneaking forward any good??) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I didn't see the episode the Aussie that got attacked, but I'm sure I would have cried. I have seen a couple of other episodes that made raise an eye brow. One with a 4 dog house hold and the youngest looked like what could have been a black sheppard and he had zero manners and no self control. Which yes, some obedience classes would have cured with WAY less stress. He gave each family member a dog that was to be their dog for the show, you know feed it, walk it etc. and he gave the mom the crazy dog. So the mom is a total push over and has no control over the other dogs, so why would she have chance in hell with the "bad" dog, she actually got into a fight with Brad and was crying. I couldn't believe it! Needless to say, I think he's nuts and would never train my dog that way, and I kinda figured he was in Calgary but hoped he wasn't, I don't ever want to run into him on the street. I would probly stomp on his foot and tell him he's a mean, mean man! Unfortunately, TV is all about ratings, so if Brad and Ceasar have GREAT ratings because of some silly, under educated people, then so be it. I just give those people my honest opinion when they ask for it and hope everything works out in the best interest of the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
border_collie_crazy Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 wow, I am actually suprised to hear all that about the end of my leash guy, I have only seen like 2 episodes but I didnt see a single thing that was even negitive, nevermind bullyish I suppose I would have to see more of him to figer him out lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Look at "What not to Wear" or "Queer Eye" or any of the scores of home organization shows, all of which thrive on manufactured conflict and drama. They're just extending the format to dog training. Kill your television. It's the only thing to do. Okay, so I actually like What not to Wear and Queer Eye. I guess you won't be my friend anymore, eh Bill? Please don't make me kill my television....At least not until after Survivor is finished Ailsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 wow, I am actually suprised to hear all that about the end of my leash guy, I have only seen like 2 episodes but I didnt see a single thing that was even negitive, nevermind bullyish I suppose I would have to see more of him to figer him out lol I know -- I was skeptical but reserving judgement until I saw the Aussie episode. Then I couldn't believe it! You just somehow think that if its on tv, and he's an "expert", it must be ok ... WHAT? who said that???!! It wasn't me... (same as "slap upside the head") A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Bill says, "Kill your television. It's the only thing to do." Save some money, and don't buy one in the first place! I actually love it that I have no idea what any of y'all are talking about. Haven't had a TV in a house I've lived in since college (which was a looooong time ago), don't miss anything about it (OK, there are some good things, but....), and would MUCH rather spend time training (or just lovin' on) my dogs. No luddite, just happy.... diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fosher Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 Alisa, Hate the sin, not the sinner, eh? The difference is that the worst that could happen if people misunderstand the advice on QE or WNTW is a fashion faux pas. With these dog training shows, a lot of harm can be done to a dog and a family. Diane, I admit to being hooked on television, but because there's no reception or cable available where I live (and I'm too cheap to spring for sattelite) I'm perfectly happy watching DVDs for an hour or two a couple of times a week. I've never seen an episode of Survivor or any of the shows that the world was so recently worked up about losing due to the writers' strike. Three years ago we were living at a place with cable and Lynn got hooked on the home fix-up shows, and then she was house-sitting for a neighbor a couple of weeks ago and I watched a few with her. Seemed to me they'd have had a lot more time to show useful things if they would have spent less time on drama and manufactured conflict. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiegirl Posted February 19, 2008 Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 I watch mainly discovery, animal planet, tlc and reruns of matlock, murder she wrote and golden girls. NCIS when I get the chance. I love the hallmark channel because you get all those old shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted February 19, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2008 With these dog training shows, a lot of harm can be done to a dog and a family. Yes, Bill, I completely agree. People get themselves into these fashion messes but the dogs have no say in how their lives end up. They rely completely on us and when a family/person takes the initiative to get help (this in itself is good, but I can't even speculate on the process and compensation -- not to mention humiliation -- involved in signing on to a dog-training tv show!) and decides, however misguidedly, to allow a "tv personality" trainer to help them, I'm not sure whether its help they really want or notariety. I don't think we can discount all of the dog-training shows on tv or even the positive value of exposing some of our most basic misconceptions about the realities of owning a dog on such an accessible medium ("You walk your dog TWICE a day?" or "Careful of your mitts! He'll steal them and I won't be able to get them back!" -- these are things I've heard on my walks); but I agree tv is all about so-called entertainment and viewership, and that these shows are no substitute for getting a trainer "in person" (or sometimes on this Board )to help with your individual issues. What's dangerous about "end of the leash" man, IMO, is his Napoleon complex -- and his audacity about "curing" people AND dog issues. I'm actually not sure about his credentials, but it appears as though you don't need a PhD or, even more importantly, any kind of animal (not-to-mention human) sensitivity to have this kind of show. And that's not right. P.S. If any of this is not coherent, blame lack of sleep. Up all night with poopy borrowed dog. I know, TMI. Ailsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Peep Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 I have NEVER seen Ceaser or anyone else but Victoria Stilwell. I liked her. I do have to admit, when she is greeting the new pups, she sits on the couch and when she is training she stands over them. That is a dominance factor. So in some ways, she is showing she is submissive when she firsts enters the house. Then, when she takes charge, takes the more dominant role. I like her. She shows both positive training and re-enforcement training. What my trainer is and what I hope to be is called an "all- balanced" trainer. IMO, if your dog has know "sit" for awhile, no more treats for him-(treat Nazi) he deserves a correction, in some way, verbal, whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 So, in my previous post on this topic, I said that I hoped I never ran into Brad on the street. Well, almost is close enough. There is a couple down the street from me who what a white boxer (she is a doll) and a wiemeraner (SP). From what I can tell, they seem like your typical high energy large breed dogs, and they take really good care of them, but who knows what happens inside the house! I had just come home from work one night and all I hear is "What the hell?!" from my bf. I look out the patio door and there is Brad walking down the street with the two dogs in tow. The part that got me? Well, there is no doubt in my mind he was not training them since the entire time he was outside with the doggies attached to him he was emailing away on his blackberry.....adding a little hip jerk here and a hip jerk there... Thought I would just add my little celebrity siting... julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted April 2, 2008 Report Share Posted April 2, 2008 Never saw the show. We like Divine Canine but it isn't on any more. It is about monks in upstate NY who raise GSDs. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted April 3, 2008 Report Share Posted April 3, 2008 Divine Canine...I tried, I really tried to watch that show but it was so boring that I could never keep my eyes open long enough. VS.. scares me with the stern look and her boots. If I was a dog I'd be good too! I do wish I could do her little happy bipbip noise, my voice is to low to get the same upbeat sound, but my dogs seem to know the difference so I guess we're all right. CM.. I just like the dude. I like his balanced ideas. Not all his training ideas but his balanced dog thing is good in my book. When he takes a new dog to his center it's very close to what happens here when a new dog comes around. If the dog knows doggy manners things go smoothly, if not, I have to keep a close eye on my crew, or they will take the training of doggy manners to the new dog in their own hands....and you think CM is rough! I also enjoy figuring out who watches CM as you can see them walking their dogs doing the ssssstttt noise, expecting the dog to get it. I've never seen the other end of the leash, is it on in the US? I like to watch the doggy shows, I'm bored when I work and I'm always amazed or entertained at watching stupid people do stupid stuff. It's the dogs in the show that set them apart from reg. dumb TV. Kristen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afrancis Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 I've never seen the other end of the leash, is it on in the US? I like to watch the doggy shows, I'm bored when I work and I'm always amazed or entertained at watching stupid people do stupid stuff. It's the dogs in the show that set them apart from reg. dumb TV. Kristen Boy am I late to respond to you Kristen, sorry! I think someone mentioned before that it might not be available to you guys in the US...you don't want it! Everytime I see him now I cringe ... even the opening to his show with him striding arrogantly with a pack of dogs running and barking alongside him is irritating. They should be running in the opposite direction...He isn't actually stupid, he's arrogant and self-righteous. And watching the interactions on the show is actually embarrassing. I feel sorry for the poor dogs. I also quite like CM. I love it when he tells an owner quite matter of factly, "well you have to walk your dog" as if it was the most obvious thing in the world --except to the owner! And Julie, ugh - he was in your neighbourhood. Maybe he's run out of people to visit because word has gotten around and he's now "training" dogs that have absolutely nothing wrong with them! Ailsa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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