Bloat

[Kat's Dogs]

Yesterday Dazzle got into her food container. She ate about 5 or 6 cups of food (she usually gets 1 cup or less a day). She found me and just layed at my feet - she did NOT want to move. She would just lay down and stay there, groaning occasionally.

 

I was having a hysterical fit thinking that she had bloat and I only had minutes to get her to a vet. I called the vet and after a talk they thought that she should be fine and not to give her any more food (OK, well that is obvous) and not to give her water for awhile (and no excersice). I was still very worried and kept a really close eye on her. Little by little the hours ticked by. She was getting better (less buldge, she pooped, and was much more comfortable). I didn't get any sleep last night and kept checking on her. The vet called today and asked how she was - I was happy to report that she was fine now.

 

My question is, have any of you had a dog that got bloat? What was it like? What about border collies? They can be very tuck waisted (Dazzle is) so are they likley candidates for bloat?

[Anda]

Kat, I'm glad Dazzle's ok. Guess she had the equivalent of going to a chinese buffet Been there myself, sat there like Dazzle did, then it all got better

 

My dog never tried to rummage through the dog food bags, but he did (repeatedly) steal chicken bones from our plates (after we were done eating) and from the garbage, and after panicking the first two times, I realized that he'll be ok, as long as he doesn't choke on them (according to him, he "doesn't have time" to chew his bones all the way :mad: ). Now I just have to watch him extra carefuly when we have chicken for dinner!

[Allie Oop]

Whoa! That sounds kinda scary! Glad that Dazzle is okay. Allie is such a sporadic eater that I haven't experienced anything like that yet (and, knock-on-wood, never will). Hope Dazzle recovers, and you too!

 

Regards,

[urge to herd]

We've never had bloat, and as far as I know bc's aren't particularly susceptible to it. Great Danes and Dobies are what I think get bloat more frequently.

 

BUT - Shoshone managed to get into the locked kibble/treat bin about 18 months ago. Hubby woke up after I'd gone to work, and there was kibble, chewy sticks, cow ears and hard rubber toys scattered all to Creation. Shonie looked like she'd swallowed a basketball and was moving pretty slowly for a while. I had no sympathy.

 

She had 3 enormous poops the next morning, I mean like horse sized, and she was right as rain.

 

Ruth n the BC3

[Zoe]

Oh, am I glad she is ok. When I read the title of your post I was worried. I didn't think bloat had anything to do with the size of their waist. Interesting. I just thought you had to be careful not to exercise after feeding.

I mean like horse sized

Ruth, you are funny !

[Pat W.]

Bloat from what I understand is far more common in deep chested dogs like Danes, Mastifs, Dobes ect. My Meg one time opened a cabinet and for some unknown reason decided to eat my box of bisquick pancake mix fortunately there was only a small amount due to it being a premix and containing baking powder. Needless to say her tummy looked like she had swollowed a football, but I was very concerned due to the raising qualities in the mix. Everything came out all right in the end though....pun intended

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

The thing to watch out for more in Border collies is pancreatitis. It shouldn't be an issue in a healthy dog, even when the dog overindulges (lol), but it can happen occaisionally in an older, overweight, or in dogs that have a tendency to it.

 

We just had an incident with Doug the Dog. He chewed open an airtight container and ate about six POUNDS of kibble. I have no idea how he got it all down, but I know he did because that's about how much was in the container - and he was the only one with access to the area! He had a very bad tummyache that turned the corner into pancreatitis and kept him at the vet for a couple days, poor guy. And yesterday he cracked a rib working - he just can't win lately.

[muddy bob]

Should one induce vomitting? I just heard from a client this week that her dog died of pancreatitis.

[Barb Scott]

My old BC Quest once got into a 5 pound box of Meaty Bones (Braised dog biscuits); the only reason we even had them in the house was that his full sister was the cover dog on the box. He was extremely thick-waisted for a day or so, but in the end he was OK. We put baby locks on the cupboards to prevent another re-occurrence.

Barb

[silhouettestable]

I've had the unfortunate experience of loosing a Great Dane to bloat. As other posters have mentioned, the large and giant breed dogs that have narrow, deep chests are more at risk, especially the males since they tend to be larger than females.

 

With our Dane, we had been away for the day with a neighbour looking after the dogs, coming over to let them out periodically througout the day. When we got home late in the evening the dogs were all fine and happy to see us. I let them outside into the backyard and after about 10-15 minutes I let them back in. As soon as he walked past me coming in the door I could see that he was bloated, and he went and layed down in the hallway. He was groaning a bit and started trying to roll further over to expose his belly and I guess try to remove the pressure of laying on it. His tongue also was hanging out of his mouth. I put in an emergency call to the vet (Sunday night, about 12:30am by then), and the vet on call met me at the clinic. She examined him and took x-rays, and while waiting for the results started explaining more about the symptoms she'd expect to see if his stomach was twisted. She'd just barely gotten the words out of her mouth and he did exactly what she said, dry retching with nothing coming up since the stomach was in fact twisted (confirmed by the x-ray) and creating a blockage. He'd also been doing some panting and groaning. With the diagnosis confirmed our options were limited. That clinic doesn't normally perform operations for bloat, the on call vet suggested that if we wanted to have surgery performed that she could decompress the gas temporarily and we could drive him to Guelph University (which is about a 3-4 hour drive away from us). We were told that the cost of surgery would likely be $1500+ and that is is a risky surgery with no guarantees that the problem won't recurr. He was a young dog and it was a hard thing to do, but for a few combined reasons we had to have him euthanized. I took some comfort that we caught it early and ended his suffering as quickly as possible. I have a friend who has lost a few dogs to bloat (she blames a certain brand of food which she has switched off and had no more problems). I know from her experiences how excruciating bloat can be and I know our boy hadn't yet reached that stage.

 

I still have no idea what caused his bloat. I know that Danes are prone to it, but we followed all the recommendations re: no exercise before and after eating, feeding good quality giant-breed food, more small meals vs. one large one, elevated food and water bowls etc. Why it happened I guess we'll never know.

[Kat's Dogs]

I am sorry that you lost your Dane - but thank you for explaining your expirience with it - it really helps to hear it from someone who has seen it before.

 

After the large amount of research I did in those first few hours with Dazzle's problem I was reading that they are now thinking bloat might be caused not only by the reasons you stated but by stress (excited, scared, etc). Any kind of "stress" in a deep chested, lage dog, increases the chances of bloat - or so they say. I thought that was interesting.

 

I am also glad to hear that Dazzle isn't the only crazy (and maybe not so smart ) border collie to eat WAY more then she should. Hopefully she will associate that pain with the eating and not do it again.

 

ETA: She is doing WAY better now (some horse-sized poops later ) - just a little tiny bulge rather then the huge one she had at first. Only, now she is acting like she is starving all the time! :confused: Crazy dog.

[trailrider]

I`ve lost Collies to bloat. Each time, the dog had food in the belly, and something exceptionally exciting occurred. One, I put a horse tube with two openings into her stomach and released the gas. She was OK. One was bloated when I came home, and found out later that people(ignorant) had stood at the gate with children and called and whistled to get the dogs to show themselves out in their pen fences. The vet could not save him. One had surgery and was fine for 7 more years. I soak all food so that there is no swelling when they drink. I feed smaller more frequent meals. No big meals when work or excitement is on the menue.

[silhouettestable]

Originally posted by trailrider:

I`ve lost Collies to bloat. Each time, the dog had food in the belly, and something exceptionally exciting occurred. One, I put a horse tube with two openings into her stomach and released the gas. She was OK. One was bloated when I came home, and found out later that people(ignorant) had stood at the gate with children and called and whistled to get the dogs to show themselves out in their pen fences. The vet could not save him. One had surgery and was fine for 7 more years. I soak all food so that there is no swelling when they drink. I feed smaller more frequent meals. No big meals when work or excitement is on the menue.

What kind of food do you feed? It was collies that the friend I mentioned lost as well. Many years ago she lost a male, then just a few years back she lost 2 more males and a female as well. She's always fed 2 meals a day and wet down the food, but after that she switched brands.

 

I understand that now there is a preventative surgery that can be performed on dogs with a high risk factor. If a dog is already in surgery for something like a spay, they will sometimes put a stitch or two in the upper part of the stomach to prevent it from being able to twist.

 

Kat's Dogs - Glad to hear that Dazzle is feeling so much better.

[trailrider]

The surgery stitches down the stomach to prevent torsion when bloat occurs, but it does not prevent the actual bloating effect, just stops the deadly torsion. No problems here with the border collies. They all live to be oldsters.

[heartdog]

I have a Doberman that bloated and tortioned but I managed to get his stomach to flip back before we got to the ER. The x-rays and sonogram showed a displaced spleen from the tortion which eventually went back to it's proper place. I keep two homeopathic remedies on hand for any sign of bloat, Carbo Veg and Alumina- When my Dobie bloated I gave 3 doses of Carbo veg, 15 minutes apart and it relieved the gas and we were able to avoid surgery...

It has been 3 years now and he happily lives on the Volhard diet with no more bloat issues..

 

Deborah

 

 

HeartDog Studio Art of the Dog~For the Love of the Dog

[AK dog doc]

Things to know about "bloat", which is more accurately called gastric dilatation and volvulus (GDV):

1. This is an EMERGENCY. Wake up the vet if you have to. If you're not sure, err to the side of caution and (if you have to) wake the vet up to ask. If it IS a GDV, it's serious enough that it's justified to ask the question even if it's 3 a.m. (IMO). Be prepared that you may have to go in and pay the emergency fee to find out for sure, and an Xray is almost a foregone conclusion.

 

2. Signs of GDV are (in no particular order): distended abdomen, restlessness, shock, panting, belly pain, repeated attempts to vomit without producing anything (sometimes a very small amount of white foamy material is produced; this would be coming from the mouth and/or back of the throat, not the stomach, since GDVs occur when the esophagus is pinched off and traps gas in the stomach.) Abdominal distension may be subtle, expecially if it just started, or it may be severe and obvious; the distension is usually hard/tight and tympanic (sounds/feels like a drum if you tap it with your finger) and may be palpable right behind the ribcage. If food or yellow or green bile-stained fluid is coming up, there is no torsion.

 

3. The "cause" question is often difficult to answer definitively in a given case, but risk factors include deep-chested dogs, aerophagic dogs (ones who bolt their food and thus ingest air along with their food), a wet heavy meal followed by high activity (anything which involves a lot of panting and/or running), and certain gas-producing or fermentable foods (bread is a major culprit, as are certain grains like barley, which can sometimes in some dogs produce a foamy slime in the stomach which can't be burped up effectively.) There is some speculation that there may be subtle underlying disorders in a given dog which predispose it to GDV (such as motility disorders which allow gastric retention of the food long enough for fermentation to occur.) This, however, is not entirely clear yet. There does appear to be some genetic componant, (though this is also not clearly understood), since certain breeds and certain families within a breed seem to have greater incedence.

 

4. While you probably can't avoid all GDVs in all cases, things you can do to decrease your risk include: NOT allowing a lot of activity for at least an hour after eating; feeding smaller meals two or three times a day rather than one large meal once a day; avoiding abrupt diet changes; avoiding large amounts of foods which make your dog "burpy"; avoiding excessive grain loads all at once; avoiding fermentable foods in large quantities; and if you have a dog which bolts its food, try to slow it down by either feeding with obstacles in the dish (perhaps feeding from a muffin tin so the dog has to pick food out of the little cups and thus go more slowly, feeding out of a Kong, etc.) or give the meal in several small "courses" with some time in between to empty the stomach. (This is a pain, but not as big a pain as a GDV is. Usually this last one is more trouble than most owners need to go to to slow the dog down.) Some dogs are less aerophagic with food that is soaked prior to feeding; ditto wet type foods.

 

5. Surgery (gastropexy) can decrease the risk of a GDV in predisposed dogs, but as pointed out already, they can still distend (bloat) the stomach; the surgery prevents the volvulus portion of the program, which is generally more serious. Distension is still serious, but less likely (though not impossible) to be fatal. I've treated dogs who have been pexied and have still bloated but not torsed. These dogs are in distress, sometimes serious distress, and may be shocky and unstable. The distended stomach puts pressure against the vena cava, the huge vein that runs down the center of the body (the aorta being the partner artery that goes with it.) The aorta is a higher-pressure vessel than the vena cava and is harder to occlude, hence will continue to carry blood away from the heart even in a pretty marked distension. If enough pressure is put against the vena cava, however, it prevents blood from returning to the heart for recirculation. As you can imagine, this is Very Bad; there isn't enough blood volume making ot to the heart to supply the body, so the heart is straining to push what little there is out faster. Also, a very significant amount of blood may be trapped in the torsed spleen. Though there has been no blood lost from the body, there is in effect a hypovolemic shock (similar to what might happen with blood loss.) Thus, two front-leg IV catheters are advised for these dogs if they are going to be anesthetised. (Rear-leg catherters are putting the needed fluid into the BACK of the body, and remember, that pinched-off vena cava is unable to return that blood volume to the heart. Thus the fluids need to be run into the FRONT end of the body to up the blood return to the struggling heart.)

 

6. Even if surgery is performed on a GDV victim, the condition can still be fatal via shock, necrosis (tissue death) of the spleen, esophagus &/or stomach, and arrythmias produced by something called "myocardial depressant factor", which is released from the damaged stomach and may cause cardiac arrest for up to 2 weeks post-op from a sucessful pexy. Surgery is expensive and not always successful. Sometimes a temporary decompression is done to allow the dog time to stabilize so a more definitive surgery can be done. I personally will not do these procedures after hours since the dog REALLY needs to be in a fully-monitored 24-hour care facility, IMO. Plenty of dogs do fine with nary a hitch, but if you have one of the ones throwing arrythmias left and right, that needs to be watched like a hawk - and there's no way to predict which dog is going to be that very one.

 

7. Surgery is NOT always needed to decompress these, but the condition can recur even after it's either spontaneously resolved OR after decompression via stomach tube. Sometimes these dogs have enough fermentation going on that gastric lavage is needed to wash out the fermenting substance(s) on order to stop the process.

 

I have a deep-chested (whippet-mix) dog who tends ot bolt his food. Even though he's the only one, ALL my dogs are crated for at least an hour after eating, in order to avoid this very problem, and I feed smaller meals twice daily (for the adults- more often for the puppy). So far, so good - touch wood. If one of my dogs DID do a GDV, I'd go for the surgery, since most do well; however, there is significant cost and risk, so it's not for everyone.

 

I think that's the main thrust; maybe we cn do pancreatitis later. I have to go treat a parvo puppy (OH so much fun, and extra-exciting given that I have an incompletely-vaccinated puppy at home... sigh.)

[Tassie]

Doc, as usual, thank you so much for taking the time to spell this out. Maybe this is another thread that should be pinned - to save you having to do it again!

 

Don't know how you have time between working and puppy-raising - but again, thank you.

[Kat's Dogs]

Thanks Doc!

 

That is more informative then ANYTHING I could find. Hope that poor Parvo pup gets better, and your pup doesn't get it.

[BCjetta]

Its usually deep chested dogs that get GDV, but at our work we've had several smaller large dogs with it. We've had 1 great dane, 1 chow, 1 dalmation, 1 standard poodle, 1 ibizian hound and 1 yellow lab since I've been there. The dane was euth'd before surgery, the chow had surgery and lived, the dalmation had surgery and died due to heart complications, the standard poodle had surgery and was ok after that, but bloated a second time a year later and died before the owner could get him in because his signs were subtle, the ibizian hound was just euthanized because it was the second time he bloated and he was very old, and the lab died right after it got to the clinic. There have been more but not that I can remember offhand.