Preference: Short flat or long rough coat?

[UMANOODLE]

1 hour ago, GentleLake said:

2 of them were dogs I'd raised. The ~10 month old came to me as an 11 week old puppy. He was great until he began becoming randomly aggressive at about 8 months old. By 10 months he was so bad I returned him to the rescue, where despite a veterinary behaviorist's medical and behavioral intervention for several months became so aggressive that he had to be put down. This was extreme, probably a neurological issue akin to sudden rage syndrome. Not typical and I certainly don't mean to be alarmist, but things like that can happen despite doing all the socialization and training in the world right.

The other is a border collie mix I adopted at 6 months. Again did all the socialization and training and she'd begun working as a therapy dog. At about 14 months old she became very reactive to many situations (sounds, etc.) and very fear reactive with unknown dogs. She never had a bad experience with another dog that would explain this. She still lives with me 7 years later but it takes a lot of management -- including daily medication -- to keep her from going out of her mind at the least little thing.

So sorry to hear that, and must have been so hard and heart breaking to deal with. I will take this on board. Thank you for sharing. xx

[2bc4me]

SusieW. I use rough coat and long coat interchangeably.  I am wondering now if others use the terms differently.  

I currently have one of each, a rough, medium and smooth.   Coat wise, I prefer the medium coat.  Just enough feathers without catching every burr.  

[GentleLake]

I think a lot of people use rough and long coat interchangeably, though my understanding is that border collies come in 2 coat types, rough and smooth. There are variations in both type, some rough coats are more medium in length while others can be pretty long, especially in some males' chest and mane areas. Smooth coats can be either slick, i.e. very short, smooth and sometimes harder coats, or denser and a bit fluffier, but still short. Both have what I refer to as self-cleaning coats and some call Teflon. Once it's dry, mud and dirt just falls off of them.

I prefer the appearance of medium rough coats but it's true the smoothies can be easier to take care of. You might think they'd shed less, but they don't. It's just shorter fur to pick up. The harder coats can leave fur that actually would embed in the soles of my feet when I'd walk barefoot in the house. It can be pretty painful.

 

[SS Cressa]

Oooo I love the man mane! Was so sad Val never got as manly of a mane as his dad had or his brother. All that fluff like  

As stated before I do love how sleek slick coats can be. Also how it shows off their muscles and body. 

[alligande]

I have had 4 long haired male tris, all by chance not planning. The first I fell in love with a pretty face on a local shelters website, I spend 4 months persuading my husband to go look at him, we had him 2 years for before we admitted he was a border collie! When he died I started my search for middle aged border collie as my GSDx cross was miserable as an only dog, we got a referral from a local breed rescue and adopted Brody straight from his previous family, all we knew when we went to meet him was that he was 3 and male (his owner had died suddenly in early 70s and his widow could not cope with him) and now we had another long haired tri. A couple of years later our GSDx died and I was on the hunt for a young dog, under a year to be my agility partner, the same rescue was contacted by a family in PA and a week later I had a 4 month old long haired tri. Move on a few years and I start my search for a well bred ISDS registered puppy, I select the breeder and choose a smooth haired black and white boy, but it wasn't to be, health problems with the liter meant that they wouldn't sell registered and to a pet home, BUT I was given a lead on another liter of the same age but privately bred, when the breeder sent me photos of the liter, I just laughed all 7 were long haired Tris! I live in a climate and location where a smooth would be nice, but tris seem to be attracted to me 

 

[UMANOODLE]

2 minutes ago, alligande said:

I have had 4 long haired male tris, all by chance not planning

Hello Alligande  I LOVE this story - thank you for sharing. I love long hair tri males, had 2 so far. Since my boy passed I have been looking at rescue and ISDS pups as well. Are you in the UK? I have recently passed on an ISDS well bred pup. SO the search continues. xx

[UMANOODLE]

15 hours ago, SS Cressa said:

All that fluff like

All the fluffffff 

[UMANOODLE]

18 hours ago, 2bc4me said:

SusieW. I use rough coat and long coat interchangeably.

Lovely dogs Susie. Yes I think I do use them interchangeable, although Harry my first boy was more curly, and Olls was more long straight. x

[SusieW]

41 minutes ago, UMANOODLE said:

Lovely dogs Susie. Yes I think I do use them interchangeable, although Harry my first boy was more curly, and Olls was more long straight. x

Thank you so much! And thanks everyone for the clarification it's so interesting how different Border Collies can be- we know a lot where we live and if you lined them all up on the park I don't think they would look like the same breed of dog at all! 

[GentleLake]

And yet, even though there's much more variation in border collies than many breeds of dogs, for the most part they're pretty recognizable as a breed.

I find the cookie-cutter sameness of most breeds pretty boring.

 

[alligande]

20 hours ago, UMANOODLE said:

Hello Alligande  I LOVE this story - thank you for sharing. I love long hair tri males, had 2 so far. Since my boy passed I have been looking at rescue and ISDS pups as well. Are you in the UK? I have recently passed on an ISDS well bred pup. SO the search continues. xx

I am actually in Mallorca but my pup came from Scotland, we drove from Mallorca almost all the way to Aberdeen to get him it was one of the reasons we got him, I had booked our ferry tickets and hotels on the Friday and on the Sunday the breeder of pup 1 told me about the problems, while my husband and I debated what we should do, I was told about pup2 who was only 3 days younger so all our plans would still work, and so after lots of research and careful  selecting breeder 1, I ended up just taking a chance and we got pup 2, he is the smartest dog we have ever had, but he is challenging to train as he is an over thinker, he is though a great pet as he is really mellow at home. All my previous border collies were American. 

 

[D'Elle]

Hey, Umanoodle.....with rescue sometimes you just have to be patient. And you may have to be willing to travel as well. I am very sorry to hear that the rescues you have tried so far have rejected you because you want to take the dog to work with you. I have worked in rescue a lot and to me, that would be a good thing.  I do have the feeling, at least for myself, that when the time is right the right dog comes along. It has happened every single time. And I think it will happen for you too, do don't get discouraged.

[UMANOODLE]

10 hours ago, D'Elle said:

Hey, Umanoodle.....with rescue sometimes you just have to be patient. And you may have to be willing to travel as well. I am very sorry to hear that the rescues you have tried so far have rejected you because you want to take the dog to work with you. I have worked in rescue a lot and to me, that would be a good thing.  I do have the feeling, at least for myself, that when the time is right the right dog comes along. It has happened every single time. And I think it will happen for you too, do don't get discouraged.

Hey D'Elle, Thanks for your reply on this, really appreciate it  I do feel discouraged, am speaking to the bc rescue I helped set up later today, as she is obviously keen for me to rescue as well. How long were you looking for yours? For me it's been 6 - 7 months, is that normal, short, long? I am not restricting myself to area either am looking all over the UK, as I am happy to travel. I have been in touch with 3 more places (more sheep dog farmers)... BUT they also do failed sheep dogs, which I am quite interested in. I would be an active dog, that could fit in and I could have years left with him and still do all the training and classes I would like also.

Yeah I would think bringing the dog to work with me would be good as well, who knows. I think as I work away from my house, like I live in another area m-f when I am on a contract and home weekends, they would want to see the living situation when I am away, and that varies job to job! 

Have you got any pointers, or tips, where, how to look, how long to wait, perhaps stop looking for a while... dunno anything you think extra could help?

Thanks in advance. xx

[D'Elle]

On 5/15/2020 at 1:34 AM, UMANOODLE said:

Hey D'Elle, Thanks for your reply on this, really appreciate it  I do feel discouraged, am speaking to the bc rescue I helped set up later today, as she is obviously keen for me to rescue as well. How long were you looking for yours? For me it's been 6 - 7 months, is that normal, short, long? I am not restricting myself to area either am looking all over the UK, as I am happy to travel. I have been in touch with 3 more places (more sheep dog farmers)... BUT they also do failed sheep dogs, which I am quite interested in. I would be an active dog, that could fit in and I could have years left with him and still do all the training and classes I would like also.

Yeah I would think bringing the dog to work with me would be good as well, who knows. I think as I work away from my house, like I live in another area m-f when I am on a contract and home weekends, they would want to see the living situation when I am away, and that varies job to job! 

Have you got any pointers, or tips, where, how to look, how long to wait, perhaps stop looking for a while... dunno anything you think extra could help?

Thanks in advance. xx

There's no answer to "how long should I wait" except to say that you will obviously have to wait until the right dog for you comes along. That could be tomorrow, or months from now. This isn't something you should put a deadline on. Getting a dog in my opinion is like getting married: a serious commitment.  It needs to be the right fit or it may result in sorrow or harm. Don't stop looking, but don't allow yourself to get frantic or discouraged about it either. When the time is right the right dog will come to you. Tell yourself each day that you are one day closer to getting your dog, because that is undeniably true. Your dog will come to you, maybe in an unexpected way, you never know. I walked into my vet's office one day and met a dog who became my beloved Kit and lived with me for many years until she died at the age of 17. Have faith in the process.

 

[juliepoudrier]

Even smooth can come in varying degrees, from slick with no undercoat to pretty darn thick and fluffy. For example (not the best photo, sorry) the red dog Kite in front is much smoother than the white dog (Pip) behind him, who has a big old ruff around his neck (which has gotten thicker with age, he’s couple months shy of 14), but has more coat than the two slick dogs (one barely visible, often referred to as “bare skinned” in the UK) behind the white dog (Birdie and Dove). A couple dogs further back (behind the two smiths who are side by side) is another type of smooth: Corbie is slick on his sides but quite rumpled down his back!
 

J. 

[juliepoudrier]

Here is the rough coated puppy, Wren, at 5 months. Rather fluffy in my opinion.

[beachdogz]

On 5/12/2020 at 4:51 AM, Lawgirl said:

.

The only thing they have all had in common is that magical teflon quality of shedding dirt once it dries.

 

Now that someone has brought this up, I have always wondered if this is a trait related to the breed?  My BCs have all been like that.  They could go out and get filthy, and hours later, they were clean and bright...especially the white.  And I had not witnessed them overly grooming their entire bodies.  We have always marveled at that.

I also would like to know the difference between a rough coat and a long hair BC. 

[GentleLake]

14 hours ago, beachdogz said:

I also would like to know the difference between a rough coat and a long hair BC. 

As I mentioned above, the 2 seem to be used interchangeably, though some rough coats do have longer cots than others.

[Lawgirl]

Okay, here is a test.  Photo is of my red merle Bailey.  How would other people classify his coat?

To me he is a mid-length rough coat - definitely not smooth, but he is not what I think of as a long coat (which is more the show dog long coat).  He has a super fluffy butt and tail, minimal feathering and thick but not long ruff.

And just for fun, Bailey as a 20 week old puppy:

 

 

[SS Cressa]

I think most people use it interchangeable also.

I would think a rough coat would be the fluffy dog vs long coat would just be the coat that’s straighter.

Cressa coat unless blown dried or dirty always lies flat.

Valek coat unless wet is never flat or I groom him. He is not a curly dog but his coat doesn’t just lie flat. I would call his coat a rough coat. It’s still soft but since it doesn’t just lie flat it’s consider a rough coat. Idk if that helps.

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by SS Cressa

[GentleLake]

Bailey's a rough coat. His tail is certainly long.

[D'Elle]

I would call Bailey a rough coat, myself, going by the photo. I have never had a fully rough coat, nor an actual smooth coat. All of my own border collies have been what I would call semi-rough, meaning they didn't have fluffy coats or tails and their hair was not long, but not slick-short either.  Jester did have a bit of a fluffy butt, which I tended to keep trimmed. 

As far as I know, the "teflon" coat is a breed trait; all the border collies I have had or have been fostered in my care (so that adds up to quite a few) have had dirt-shedding coats. VERY convenient. I don't think I bathed my dogs more than two or three times in their lifetimes. They also wore down their own nails, and never needed me to trim them.

For me, because I live in a desert where it gets pretty warm in the summer, and there's a long and nasty burr season, the shorter coat is more practical by far.

Although I did own one dog who would go out hiking with me and get covered in burrs and then take care of herself. When I first had her I tried to comb out the burrs and she absolutely refused to let me do it.  I was living in a very remote location then, and could leave her outside, so I just told her that until she let me take out the burrs she wouldn't be allowed to come into the house. Went in, closed the door.

An hour later she scratched at the door, and when I opened it she was standing there completely burr-free, with all the burrs and surprisingly little hair in a tidy little pile on the porch. After that, when we returned from our long wanders she'd just sit down on the porch and take care of it all by herself and let me know when she was done. All I had to do was pick up and dispose of the neat little pile she left.

Now, that was a helpful dog.

[beachdogz]

I know simply by the two pictures that juliepoudrier posted that I would LOVE to come and visit her!!