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Gold Border Collie Pup?


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Last night while eating dessert outside of a restaurant we saw a couple walking an older black/white border collie and a golden border collie puppy (3 months maybe). I asked if it was a sable (which I knew was not right but didn't know that there was a name for the lighter color) and she said yes. Said the pup came from Ohio and both parents were black and white.

 

Here is a link of what the pup looked like:

http://www.gforcebordercollies.com/gold.html

 

Clearly it was not a sable, it was such a little cream color with a pink nose.

 

I did a little reading just now but can't find much evidence that the gold color can appear in a breeding with two black/white dogs. Can anyone shed some light on this? Most sites talk about the presence of the merle gene.

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I have seen two dogs like that in my life. So beautiful! One lives down the street from me, and the other is a gorgeous rough-coat (thick lassie-coat, but great BC face) who lives near where I walk the dog. The kid who walks the second one had no clue what breed - I had to tell him to Google "border collie." Imagine just picking a random pup, and getting one of these beauties?

 

(I guess I'm partial to the gold!)

 

Mary

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Funny, the link for the gold puppy came from a breeder in Louisana named GForce Border Collies. A few years ago when I decided to invest my time and energy (HA HA) in a border collie, I looked at breeders first.

 

I contacted GForce by phone and she explained I would have to get on a list and put a deposit down before the pups were even bred.

 

I was interested in a black and white. She mentioned that everyone requesting border collie's at the time were looking for "Golden's". She would let me know about the black and whites.

 

Must be a market for them.

 

I think the link for GForce always shows the parents of the pups.

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It is recessive red (or ee red). Since it's recessive it can be carried without being expressed for quite some time. It's the same coloring that gives you a light red or lemon in a lot of breeds. Although some really light sables can look like ee reds in some breeds. The tell is whether or not that dog has any black hairs in the coat.

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We have had quite a few "Aussie Red" border collies come through rescue, one was even a smoothie. My understanding is that the colour is more common in conformation dogs than working dogs, and certainly the ones I have met that were no rescues were all AKC registered.

 

I have an "Aussie Red" dog - he is not a border collie, but rather some kind of Australian Shepherd mix. I know he is not a pale / washed out chocolate because for starters, he's definitely just ... orange and secondly his nose leather is black not brown. Standing next to him is his biological brother, who is a tri.

 

7612149296_73e018d809_z.jpg

 

Both have one blue eye.

 

RDM

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The pup I saw had no black hairs. It was a very light cream color, just like the young pups in the link I posted. That link for the breeder GForce breeds conformation and AKC dogs and appears to breed for color. Can someone actually breed for the gold color? I didn't know if it could actually show up with both parents being black/white, still see no evidence of that (most seem to say it was a merle/red cross or a red/black cross on their breeder sites). I find color genetics confusing but interesting.

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Imagine just picking a random pup, and getting one of these beauties? (I guess I'm partial to the gold!) Mary

 

 

This pretty much describes how I acquired Kit. When I adopted her from the shelter, I figured she had some bc in her, but not knowing this coloring was present in the breed, I assumed she was a mix. She was about a year old and had been surrendered twice, to different shelters in her young life. This is how she looked the day I took her home.

 

 

newgals0002-1.jpg

 

 

Here she is more recenlty:

IMG_2778.jpg

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Virtually all of those dogs are coming from show lines. The color is extraordinarily rare in working lines. I've heard it does exist in ISDS lines but have yet to see a dog with a purely working pedigree of that color. As with anything, breed for color and you lose the essence of the breed.

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I am not a math and/or science geek and just looking at the cover of a text book for either subject can reduce me to tears, but my understanding of the ee / Aussie Red (yellow/lemon/gold/cream) is that it is carried recessively, sometimes for many generations, and then can randomly express provided both parents carry the colour recessively, which is why it can show up from two black parents - or parents of any colour, actually. It's similar to why black and white pairings sometimes throw red (ie liver/chocolate) puppies as well. Breeding FOR it would require the person arranging the mating to know that both parents carry it recessively.

 

RDM

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I love goldens and would some day love to find one in my pack. Just making sure i am on the right page. Goldens are a color of uts own. Its not a variation of red/chocolate right?

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I love goldens and would some day love to find one in my pack. Just making sure i am on the right page. Goldens are a color of uts own. Its not a variation of red/chocolate right?

 

Color genetics are confusing because the same color in one breed is called something else in another breed. Red in border collies is actually 'chocolate' or 'liver' in most breeds. The ee 'red' is the same thing as gold, lemon, or just plain red in other breeds. In papillons what we call red, you call Australian red. What we call liver, you call red. And then you have lab people that call the same thing chocolate... Very confusing sometimes.

 

But yes.. chocolate/liver/red is different than Aussie red/cream/liver/yellow/red.

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We have had quite a few "Aussie Red" border collies come through rescue, one was even a smoothie. My understanding is that the colour is more common in conformation dogs than working dogs, and certainly the ones I have met that were no rescues were all AKC registered.

 

I have an "Aussie Red" dog - he is not a border collie, but rather some kind of Australian Shepherd mix. I know he is not a pale / washed out chocolate because for starters, he's definitely just ... orange and secondly his nose leather is black not brown. Standing next to him is his biological brother, who is a tri.

 

7612149296_73e018d809_z.jpg

 

Both have one blue eye.

 

RDM

 

I know looks are not supposed to count but your dog sure is pretty I like the color :)

 

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I love goldens and would some day love to find one in my pack. Just making sure i am on the right page. Goldens are a color of uts own. Its not a variation of red/chocolate right?

 

But to do that you will need to buy a dog from show lines.

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I am convinced that this Ee red colour exists in the Australian BC due to an infusion of Australian dingo way back. Our kelpies also have the same Ee red colour known as cream. The BC show people would never accept this, despite early Australian records of breeding the dingo to the BC & kelpie, but the kelpie people are often proud of it.

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And how does getting one from rescue mean it wasn't from show lines, even if maybe not from dogs actively shown in the parental generation? Rather than calling it "show lines" it might be called "something other than working lines".

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There are a number of gold BCs doing agility here, we always joke about them being ditzy blondes. I'm not sure if they are all related, but they are all similar crazy fast hurdle bashers.

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And how does getting one from rescue mean it wasn't from show lines, even if maybe not from dogs actively shown in the parental generation? Rather than calling it "show lines" it might be called "something other than working lines".

 

I think her point was most likely made to indicate she wasn't going to support a "show line" breeder by looking for one in rescue? (since it was in response to Liz saying "buy a dog from show lines").

 

I probably should let her answer, but that's how I took it. (and good for you, SS Cressa, if that's what you meant!)

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