sea4th Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 she keeps herself immaculate? I don't even know what that means. You say "Immaculate". They say "Emmaculate", so their way takes away any religious connotation. I'm not quite sure what "E-mmaculate" means except that that word is followed by ABCA & AKC, so maybe their E-mmaculate dog or dogs are dual registered --- either that or they have had to go to hygiene classes. [shrug] Just guessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conner22 Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 haha! I'm sure everyone else noticed, but I love the fact that Santa has one of their puppies and sent a review in! Also, a nice vet named Dr Tom Cat was nice enough to provide a quote too. Do you suppose the entire thing is just a big joke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 DR, do you know anything about Arthur Allen? I hope you aren't dissing him in some fashion with the above comment? I know more about Arthur Allen and his dogs than I care to. I had one about 15 years ago. We got Chelsea at 9 wks. She turned into a maniac, hard to train, totally reactive toward anyone. I could never take her out in public. Over 4 years we worked on her and thought we were getting somewhere then... No.. I won't discuss it any further other than to say that her end at 4.5 yrs was sad and tragic. I talked to Allen a number of times after we got Chelsea about her problems with no satisfaction. As far as I'm concerned we got nothing but BS from him. It was a very expensive and emotionally charged lesson to learn. It's a case of one rotten apple spoiled the barrel as far as I'm concerned. It was a very bad experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchemist Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 We got our first Border collie geez, probably over 40 years ago, as a young puppy from a small farm on the outskirts of Los Angeles. While I can't be certain that he was from "Arthur Allen" lines, and goodness knows what happened to his pedigree (if we ever got one), I remember being told that his parents (grandparents?) had been in some Disney movies. He was certainly a wonderful dog. I was as awkward a junior high school student at the time as they come; he became my best friend in the world. I took him through obedience classes and spent hours after school each day playing with him and training him. I always felt that he'd do anything for me that was in his power, with great joy and boundless enthusiasm. It broke my heart when he was killed by a car while I was off at school. So, with all respect to Desert Ranger's experience with an Arthur Allen dog, mine was very different. Of course we never dealt with Arthur Allen directly. That being said, no one in their right minds should buy a dog from the place advertised by the OP. I see no evidence at all that they are breeding for the right reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 I know more about Arthur Allen and his dogs than I care to. I had one about 15 years ago. We got Chelsea at 9 wks. She turned into a maniac, hard to train, totally reactive toward anyone. I could never take her out in public. Over 4 years we worked on her and thought we were getting somewhere then... No.. I won't discuss it any further other than to say that her end at 4.5 yrs was sad and tragic. I talked to Allen a number of times after we got Chelsea about her problems with no satisfaction. As far as I'm concerned we got nothing but BS from him. It was a very expensive and emotionally charged lesson to learn. It's a case of one rotten apple spoiled the barrel as far as I'm concerned. It was a very bad experience. DR, I don't get it. The man died 13 years ago, did you actually buy a dog from a 90 yo man? Did you even buy this dog from him? I can understand the frustration, to an extent, but if you seriously think all you got from him was BS when he was 90 yo I would have to question "you". I am sorry that you had such a bad experience I just truly wonder if the pup came from Arthur Allen or if some of the pedigree had his dogs in it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 she keeps herself immaculate? I don't even know what that means. Well, isn't that appropriate at Christmas? But does that mean that all her puppies are truely divine? Well I guess that each could be "the son of doG'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 I asked DW, Chelsea was bought directly from the Arthur Allen kennel but it was longer ago than I thought, some time in the early 80s. DW dealt with Allens' wife and Chelsea was shipped here live animal air freight at 12 wks. DW was very distraught over the entire incident considering we paid about twice what a regular BC would have cost. It's too bad because Chelsea was brilliant when her head was working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted December 19, 2009 Report Share Posted December 19, 2009 Ya know, Arthur Allen had a nighbor right next door. His name was/is Dallas Nelson. He inherited most of AA's dogs. I think he thought he was going to make a mint breeding these famous dogs. Right after I started working dogs, I bought one of this man's puppies. They went right back to AA except the neighbor had owned them for at least one generation so it showed his name on the parents of my pup. That was Raven. I knew where all the pups out of that litter went and unfortunately the were all put down by the various owners but mostly for the same reason, fear and aggression. I don't think it was AA's lines that had that many issues but I do think the breeding by an amature is what caused the disasterious results. All those pups and some more from the same man who was breeding from AA's dogs had personalitiy issues. Fear and aggression was horrid. Some of you may know that Raven has had lots of issues. I wouldn't trade her for the world but she retired from working sheep before the age of 6, she had no power to speak of. I often wonder if I knew then what I knew now, could I have helped her gain a bit of courage on sheep? Also still to this day wonder why she can be such a horrid mean B to other dogs and not ever open her mouth on a sheep. Go figure. What I learned from Raven was all about picking the parents of a dog is not something to be done by just anyone. i guess someone could get some solid dogs and things could turn out ok but here is a prime example of what can happen when someone who shouldn't be breeding does. Could it be from these nighbors that you got your dog from DS? Raven is about 11 and AA had been dead a few years before I bought her. If I remember correctly his wife was still alive at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted December 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2009 Well, not surprisingly, I've asked for the pedigrees of the parents several times, and while she sent me the pedigree of the sire (who has no relation to Arthur Allen lines) and sent me the pedigree of the supposed grandsire on the dam's side whose pedigree does show Arthur Allen lines in the 4th generation, she somehow can't manage to get me the dam's pedigree which would complete the connection. Imagine that. One thing she did say that I find really surprising is, not only are people buying her puppies, but they don't care about pedigrees. Having done this long enough now, I'm not surprised by the "breeders" I run into. What does surprise me is how stupid the general public is, who they feel is a "good" breeder, and what they will spend money on. As long as there are morons, there will be "breeders" for them, I guess. Thanks for the info on the Arthur Allen lines, though. Interesting discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea4th Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 As long as there are morons, there will be "breeders" for them, I guess. Morons WITH money. Broke morons don't do them and their profiteering any good. It would be interesting if these profiteers -- oops, I meant "breeders" would show up here to tell their side of the story that we've got the wrong impression of them. Naw. Ain't gonna happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdarling Posted December 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I invited her. She hasn't responded. Imagine that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted December 21, 2009 Report Share Posted December 21, 2009 I invited her. She hasn't responded. Imagine that. She must be too busy selling improbably-bred pups at inflated prices to ignorant people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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