Scotimus Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 So I posted on this about 2 weeks ago. She got spayed months ago and then I noticed she was swollen and bleeding as if she were in heat. Her nipples got huge too (sorry if there is a better word to use other than nipples). So after 400 dollars in tests for bladder infection, urinary track, blood work, and hormones they've decided that there is probably some of her uterus still there, or possible an ovary. So tomorrow she goes in for exploratory surgery. I've been told that it'll be a different vet this time (thankfully where I go there are like 10 different vets), and that the surgery is at no cost to me. Though I'm really irked that I had to pay for all the tests to begin with, and of course at the fact that she has to be cut open again. So once we know for sure something was left intact, i'll be pushing for a refund of the tests. Sucks at this time of year to be paying for all this stuff. Hopefully this takes care of the mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Glad it wasn't something that can't be fixed, but I can understand how aggravated you must be. It'll be interesting to hear what reason they could come up with why they should not bear the cost of those tests themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 ^^What she said. I hope all turns out well, but if they screwed up the original surgery, I agree that they should be responsible for all subsequent tests and treatments. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotimus Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I feel the same way. Their screw up, therefor they should pay to fix it. I talked to the vet when I dropped her off this morning. Basically I was told they need to do the exploratory surgery first to make sure it was something they did. That didnt leave me feeling good at all. Now I'm convinced they will find some reason why it isnt there fault. Just so i'm sure when a dog gets spay they take everything out right? Uterus, ovaries, everything. It's basically a hysterectomy right? Leaving her there was so hard. She wouldn't go with the vet tech so I had to walk her to the back door, as soon as they closed the door and she couldnt see me I could hear her start to whimper. Broke my heart. I'm so pissed off I feel the need to hit something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Poor girl, and poor you! Hope you get some satisfaction and that Rahne heals fast. Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I'm sure there are procedures in place for complaints that involve malpractice. Is the hospital a member of the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA)? Are the vets members of the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA)? Either of those organizations probably has guidelines/standards that members must meet and probably also has reporting/complaint procedures. Vets must be licensed to practice in their state, so the state licensing board is another option. Don't forget the Better Business Bureau and Angie's List online as well. They'd be very foolish to try to find something else to blame this on. I'd watch very closely and make sure you thoroughly understand whatever explanation they give you regarding what they find. If it's something like a tumor, then I'd insist on sending it off for pathological exam, and so on. Be very proactive at this point, take notes if you have to, but make sure you know everything that was done and *why.* I'd also not hesitate to let them know that you are ready and willing to take this further if you are not satisfied with the outcome. I'm not usually the type to play hardball, but when someone makes a mistake, they need to own up to it and make it good. A spay is normally an ovariohysterectomy, so unless there was a reason to leave, say, the ovaries behind, it all should have been removed. And if they didn't do a complete hysterectomy, then they should have let you know that up front, including their reasons for not doing it as well. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotimus Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Thanks so much for all info. I'll definitely look into the things you've mentioned. Trust me when I say when I go back in today I'm taking a notebook and a pen to make sure I understand everything they tell me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 It is rare, but sometimes there is ovarian tissue outside of the ovaries. In that case it would be easy to miss during a spay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotimus Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 It is rare, but sometimes there is ovarian tissue outside of the ovaries. In that case it would be easy to miss during a spay. So if that were the case can something like that cause her to show all the signs of actually being in heat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 So if that were the case can something like that cause her to show all the signs of actually being in heat? Yes, it is certainly possible. It's a rare but known/recognized problem. If the vet cut right through an ovary and left half of it behind that is one thing, but if there is an extra ovary hiding behind the kidney you can't blame him/her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Yes but why would the dog be showing signs of a full blown heat? You'd have to have a uterus to have bleeding, wouldn't you? I could see an extra ovary or something simular but not leaving enough of a uterus to have blood and swelling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 Any word yet on how she is doing? And, how are you doing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotimus Posted December 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 OK so the vet just called me. he said he did find ovarian tissue left behind. He cut it all out and is having it sent off to make sure it is actually ovarian tissue and not some sort of a cyst since he said it had grown pretty large. He also said he's fairly certain it was ovarian tissue based on the results of the hormone tests they gave her. So I guess it's good it's all out at this point. I'll feel better when she's up and moving around and acting like nothing happened. So I guess I'll wait on the results they get back before I push on whether or not I should've been charged for all the testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 It's possible there was zero mistake here. Dogs can have extra ovararian tissue, and I've even known of one btch (?) who has 2 uteruses and a small malformed testicle. (she was spayed because of abnormal heats and infertility - go figure LOL) Since spays are done with minimal incision, it's very possible that extras (which 99% of the time probably aren't an issue) are there unless the vet does exploratory surgery. For the person who asked how the dog could bleed without a uterus the answer is the same way she could get a pyometra after a spay. When the uterus is removed the stump of it remains in the body. If stimulated by ovarian tissue it could definately go through a heat cycle. 2 dogs in this area died this year with stump pyometras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted December 8, 2009 Report Share Posted December 8, 2009 I personally knew a Border Collie with a uterus, ovaries, testes (abdominal) and uterus masculinus. It was not discovered until the vet tried to spay her. Imagine how shocked the vet who did that surgery was. There was a debate for awhile about whether or not to change her name since the better developed organs were male, but since she was outwardly female they kept her name. About 4 years ago I discovered a true hermaphroditic goat in a herd. I found some abnormalities when I examined her as part of a teaching lab. We discussed the findings and even theorized that she might be a hermaphrodite. When she was older she was put in with a buck but never did get pregnant, which resulted in her being culled. I was lucky enough to be involved in her necropsy and see first hand just how abnormal she really was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 For the person who asked how the dog could bleed without a uterus the answer is the same way she could get a pyometra after a spay. When the uterus is removed the stump of it remains in the body. If stimulated by ovarian tissue it could definately go through a heat cycle. 2 dogs in this area died this year with stump pyometras. I asked Wendy. Glad you explained. I guess I never really knew what a stump pyometra was. I can't get a visual in my mind. What is left, I know you say a stump but I just can't figure out what that would be. Just curious. So gald she sounds like she's gonna be better now. Keep us posted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotimus Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Any word yet on how she is doing? And, how are you doing? She's doing ok, or as well as can be expected. You can see she is in pain, her eyes are all watery. I hate seeing her like this. I'm doing much better now that she's home. She's sleeping on the bed with me tonight and hopefully tomorrow she is feeling better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerfulgazelle Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I remember thinking it odd at the time, but perhaps not... When I was a teenager, we lived in Germany; we had a smooth fox terrier we "inherited" from one of my dad's employees when the lady's health failed. The dog had several "false pregnancies"...her milk would come in, she'd take after one of her toys as if it were a pup, and get more irritable than her baseline (She was not a friendly dog anyhow.) We had her spayed, and as we were picking her up from the surgery, the vet gave us a little glass specimen container with the uterine/ovarian tissue...he said they do that to demonstrate that they had removed everything they were supposed to. As if I could tell from what was in the jar...but you get the point. I hope your pupster's soon well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 I asked Wendy. Glad you explained. I guess I never really knew what a stump pyometra was. I can't get a visual in my mind. What is left, I know you say a stump but I just can't figure out what that would be. Just curious. So gald she sounds like she's gonna be better now. Keep us posted. The stump is the cervix area of the uterus that remains after a hysterectomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotimus Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 So they didnt even give me one of those cone collar protector things, which seems odd. I really cant complain though since she always eats them in under a day anyways. I think I'm going to swing by petsmart and see if they have something I can use. Any suggestions? I'm just paranoid she'll pull out a staple or some such. Oh and on a side note today is Callie's birthday. She's 2 today. Man how time flies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urge to herd Posted December 9, 2009 Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 So they didnt even give me one of those cone collar protector things, which seems odd. I really cant complain though since she always eats them in under a day anyways. I think I'm going to swing by petsmart and see if they have something I can use. Any suggestions? I'm just paranoid she'll pull out a staple or some such.Oh and on a side note today is Callie's birthday. She's 2 today. Man how time flies. Google ComfyCone. You'd have to mail order it, but I just saw it in action on a friend's lab. The dog is much happier, the collar itself is much easier on human knees and painted walls and such, and it takes up less space and stores folded. Glad to hear she's home. Rescue Remedy helped Sam out a lot after her spay. Ruth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotimus Posted December 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2009 Google ComfyCone. You'd have to mail order it, but I just saw it in action on a friend's lab. The dog is much happier, the collar itself is much easier on human knees and painted walls and such, and it takes up less space and stores folded. Glad to hear she's home. Rescue Remedy helped Sam out a lot after her spay. Ruth That Rescue Remedy stuff looks pretty interesting. I checked it out on Amazon.com. I may have to give it a try, thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotimus Posted December 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 So the results of the tissue sample came back today. It was indeed ovarian tissue, and thankfully they refunded me the money for the xrays and tests and everything else that was done to figure out what the problem was. So that's close to 500 bucks I'm getting back. I'm just glad Rahne is doing much better, I was definitely very worried about her. The swelling is finally going down and I know she's feeling better because she keeps dropping the ball at my feet to play. Ha, and being a little less broke this time of year is nice too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Journey Posted December 14, 2009 Report Share Posted December 14, 2009 Great news! Thanks for the update and I am glad she's feeling better. This will be a Merry Christmas indeed for your household! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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