RoseAmy Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Sorry if this should be in the coffee break section..BUT I feel so strongly about this and I think it will be seen by more people here. Yesterday a 18 month old child was severely bitten in the face..she is in critical condition..The dog bit a huge chunk of her flesh off all the way down to the bone. She underwent several hours of surgery and will have to endure several more to restore her face. The dog? The family husky..the family and friends are in shock as this dog and baby played together everyday..and the dog had never shown any signs of aggression. According to the father here's what happen: The little girl was "sharing" some candy with the dog when the dog took all of it and ran to another room..the girl followed the dog to get her candy back. Next think they know they hear growling and a scream..The little girl came running back with her face gone. People PLEASE your dog is a dog not a little person..They are pack animals and behave as such. No matter how loving and kind your dog is, they see childern as their equals..Especially a small child on the floor..They react and relate to them as one of them..which is just what this dog did. Think of your dogs when one of them have food and the other dog goes for it. Child need to be taught this and to respect a dogs natural behavior..Childern too young (as this girl) should be supervised at all times when with dogs. The sad thing in all of this is the 18 month old was behaving exactly like an 18 month and the dog was behaving exactly the way a dog behaves. The child will be scarred for life and probably hate dogs. The dog..he has been put to sleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I so agree but don't know how you could mandate this in a feasible way I still have a scar on my face from chasing my family's miniature schnauzer around the house right after she was flown to us cross-country from my aunt. She was terrified, didn't know any of us, and her world had just been turned upside down. I was about 3 or so, shrieking and running and trying to hug "my" new pet. I vaguely remember my parents telling me to stop, but when they weren't looking I went after her again and cornered her under a bed where she bit my face in self-defense. Now, this dog was great around all kids for the remainder of her life, and there are 100s of later pictures of me and my little brother and friends having many, many wonderful times together with her. But in that instance she was pushed too far and pushed back as any animal might. Luckily my parents had the right idea and as soon as they patched me up *I* was the one in serious trouble for mistreating the dog and disobeying my parents. One of my close friends was in a situation much like you descrbe here and was viciously attacked by a doberman at a very young age. He required over 200 stiches, many on the face. That dog was also put down, again similar to your story. On perhaps a good note, neither of us are scared of dogs and actually love them, which is a testament to the true character of all the wonderful dogs we've both been blessed to meet throughout our lives (including the schnauzer, my Nena!) However, do you think there is a fundamental difference between a Nena-incident and one like my friend's, where he was bitten repeatedly, or one like you describe, where the dog bit a child to the bone to the point she must be hospitalized over some candy? The reason I ask is that I JUST heard that one of my other aunts, a slightly clueless but experienced dog owner, recently got a GSD rescue puppy. The puppy has been raised around my 2-yo cousin but has been exhibiting more and more aggressive behavior toward him and other people and dogs in the household. Last week, the new dog came into a room where the baby was playing on the floor near their older rodesian ridgeback, a very sweet dog I've also lived with and who would never hurt a fly on purpose. My aunt was supervising. The GSD (6 months) allegedly "went after" the RR and when the RR jumped up in surprise, the pup turned with allegedly no provocation and tried to attack the baby. My aunt swept the baby up in time, and they enlisted a behaviorist. However, this does not sound to me like clueless owners so much as a dog with some seriously bad wiring (??) Not only is the pup challenging an older dog at a very young age, but unprovoked aggression against humans is NOT normal, right? They are thinking they will need to rehome the dog but to me this sounds like a possible case where euthanasia might actually be warranted, although to be fair I was not there and have not met the pup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 That is an unfortunate tragedy and there was no reason to kill the dog. That's just societies reaction to a bad situation. I've never had an incident involving children except once when a puppy nipped my nephew and my brother went over the edge thinking a 6 mo old puppy was attacking my nephew. I've had my kids (when they were toddlers) grab candy and such from the dogs and never had a problem. I agree with you. The child and dog should have both been supervised. The dog should have also been taught that children grab things. But again unfortunately the vast majority of owners and dogs are not trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 My neice had the same thing happen to her. She was a toddler and saw her dog with it's head in a trashcan. She reached out and grabbed it's rear end and the dog turned around and bit her in the face. The parents were out of town. It was a horrible thing to have to go through and the Dad decided to let the dog live (well DUH) but they got rid of the dog ASAP to another family member. This was not an aggressive dog. Just a dog being a dog. I'd love to see classes for new owners of dogs that were mandatory but I don't see a way in which that could happen. IT's like outlawing guns...if that happens then only outlaws will have guns. If the smarter responsible pet owners out there take the class then what's left are the stupid owners that say "we don't need no stinkin class" and they are the ones that have this happen to them all the time anyways. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 That is such a sad tragedy for everyone involved - the child, the dog, and the parents. don't know how you could mandate this in a feasible way I don't either. It truly does sound to me like in this case, the problem was lack of supervision. I don't know enough about very young children to know if a child her age could be trained not to feed the family dog and/or to NEVER try to grab something out of a dog's mouth, but if any kind of class should be "mandated", the only kind that might have helped might have been some kind of toddler/dog safety class. Appropriate behavior of children toward dogs, and how to train that in the child, is not addressed in any kind of dog behavior class that I know of. Add in the fact that every household situation is different, every dog is different, every child is different . . . there is no real way to standardize a class for parents that would cover everything. But it would be nice of parents could be educated in this regard. Maybe it ought to be mandatory child supervision classes for people with children who own pets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansmom Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I so agree but don't know how you could mandate this in a feasible way The reason I ask is that I JUST heard that one of my other aunts, a slightly clueless but experienced dog owner, recently got a GSD rescue puppy. The puppy has been raised around my 2-yo cousin but has been exhibiting more and more aggressive behavior toward him and other people and dogs in the household. Last week, the new dog came into a room where the baby was playing on the floor near their older rodesian ridgeback, a very sweet dog I've also lived with and who would never hurt a fly on purpose. My aunt was supervising. The GSD (6 months) allegedly "went after" the RR and when the RR jumped up in surprise, the pup turned with allegedly no provocation and tried to attack the baby. My aunt swept the baby up in time, and they enlisted a behaviorist. However, this does not sound to me like clueless owners so much as a dog with some seriously bad wiring (??) Not only is the pup challenging an older dog at a very young age, but unprovoked aggression against humans is NOT normal, right? They are thinking they will need to rehome the dog but to me this sounds like a possible case where euthanasia might actually be warranted, although to be fair I was not there and have not met the pup. What happened with the GSD sounds like a redirect (aggression versus the jumping RR redirected at closest less threatening thing) as opposed to "unprovoked aggression against humans." Still, at six months - is the GSD male? - that's early. If s/he really "went after" the RR (as opposed to play which the RR might have responded to like a typical older dog might) that doesn't sound right, so I'm glad they have a behaviorist. From what I understand part of the job of a behaviorist is to tell the family when a dog must be euthanized or rehomed for safety's sake, so if that is what is necessary and it's a good (board-certified veterinary) behaviorist, then hopefully that is what s/he will recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRipley Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Personally, I don't believe that ANY dog should be unsupervised with ANY child younger than at least 4. That's why they make baby gates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Personally, I don't believe that ANY dog should be unsupervised with ANY child younger than at least 4. That's why they make baby gates. EXACTLY!!!! I also believe it should be up to municipalities to raise awareness on issues like this. No one thinks about accidents like that until it's in the news and even then those stories are almost always one sided making the dog some horrible monster, when in reality the child did something stupid like shove a crayon down the dogs ear. You can't make parents take dog behaviour classes any more than you can make them take child care classes, so this in where City's and their by-law departments should just take it upon them selves and talk about it every chance they get. Humane societies and rescues should also chime in on the cause too. When I was growing up, you simply did not stick your hand into the back of a truck to pet a strange dog, you ALWAYS asked permission to pet a dog and you sure as heck DID NOT torment any dog period. That included pulling on ears and tails and poking at said animal. Of course, I'm not saying every case is like this, but it is the case more often than not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRipley Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Of course, I'm not saying every case is like this, but it is the case more often than not. Sure, sometimes it's an instance of needing to educate the child on how to treat an animal (when they are old enough to follow directions), and sometimes bites happen when the child unknowingly does something to set the dog off. I don't have children, but I am extremely cautious when I have visiting small children in my home. My dogs are not used to kids, and I often keep them crated in another room. Better safe than sorry. I have heard that many dogs don't see kids as "small humans" like we do. Kids move, sound, and act differently than adults. Lots of dogs don't know how to deal with it. I wouldn't want people to fear having dogs and small children at the same time -- tons of dogs love kids. I just know I wouldn't leave them unattended in the same room, period. It would be a matter of discretion at what age I would feel comfortable doing so, as every situation is different. But certainly not an 18 month old, no how, no way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ooky Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 What happened with the GSD sounds like a redirect (aggression versus the jumping RR redirected at closest less threatening thing) as opposed to "unprovoked aggression against humans." Still, at six months - is the GSD male? - that's early. If s/he really "went after" the RR (as opposed to play which the RR might have responded to like a typical older dog might) that doesn't sound right, so I'm glad they have a behaviorist. From what I understand part of the job of a behaviorist is to tell the family when a dog must be euthanized or rehomed for safety's sake, so if that is what is necessary and it's a good (board-certified veterinary) behaviorist, then hopefully that is what s/he will recommend. I suppose, but isn't the redirect aggression still very odd? And I still think that it was technically "unprovoked", in that from the story I was told (again, wasn't there but I do know my family and the RR in question), the GSD pup had taken to harassing the older dog frequently for no reason, absolutely not for play. In this instance, the RR was laying on the floor and the pup came into the room and rushed him, causing the RR to jump to his feet, not jump on the pup or anything (which should also be ok, since the young pup was at the very least exhibiting rude behavior towards the older dog). It just doesn't seem like this pup might ever be "safe". Even according to the behaviorist, this 6-mo pup (actually just under) is very, very aggressive. I know my aunt, and she would never leave small children alone with dogs. And it was a very good thing in this situation, as the child would likely have been mauled if my aunt wasn't right there. Actually, having been a nanny, I question why anyone would leave an awake child under 4 unsupervised, even without a dog in the picture. It is such a sad and scary situation when stuff like this happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenajo Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Mandatory classes haven't helped much with parenting or planned parenthood either. When I was working at a pediatric clinic I was really impressed with the power of simple educational hand outs. A "pets and babies" sheet went with each new parent and discussed briefly about prevention of injuries and illness through hygiene and supervision. The docter discussed a different preventative issue such as that at each well baby visit. Very little time spent, and a lot of good done. If you have the means and the time design a professional one and gift it to your local pediatric or well baby clinic. I have to disagree with euthanizing the dog in the op incident. Even if it was 100% mistake, the fact that the dog had that little bite inhibition sends chills down my spine. And if you can't live with it, and you can't rehome it, what do you do? Could you really look at your child's face after that and pet your dog with the other hand? I don't think I could. Call me silly or mean, but I just couldn't. I've seen such injuries as a nurse and they broke my heart even when it wasn't my dog, or my kid. As country children, we grew up with numerous pets. The few times I was hurt it was my mistake and after I was checked to be non-permamently damaged I was soundly punished. That's fair. It's also fair that my parents never left us alone with an animal until we were old enough to understand the concequences of our actions. Equally so, our dogs were expected to be tolerant of us. Snapping at a stumbling toddler was unheard of. Sharing the dog food with old Bo happened too, and there was some laughter and time elapse before we were scooped out of the way. Were they different dogs than now? Perhaps. I have some now that were as good as Bo and our other dogs were then. I trust children less I think, because normal mistakes -snipped fingers for poking for example - are no longer tolerated and expected. It's sad that children must be kept away from dogs like they are both loaded pistols. It says something sad about the whole modern situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.DaisyDuke Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 Very little time spent, and a lot of good done. If you have the means and the time design a professional one and gift it to your local pediatric or well baby clinic. You know I may even do something like that. I don't have kids and frankly going to a pediatric clinic would drive me up the wall, but giving them to tother places moms and babies go would be a good idea.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topnotchdog Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I am really sorry that happened to that family and their child and dog. If it's any consolation, there are indeed classes that prepare parents for how to help their kids and dogs have a successful, injury-free relationship (I teach such a class at the local hospital, for free). In fact, in talking with my dog trainer colleagues across the country, these classes are spreading and are very well-attended. Sure, those parents are self-selecting, but it's of great comfort to me that so many parents are seeking out this info these days, and that many dog trainers are now offering such classes in their communities. Given that nearly 80% of dog bites are to kids by their own dogs or friends' dogs, I am hoping this information eventually becomes as common sensical to parents as preventing their kids touching the stove or hitting other kids. What I have found over the years is that all the supervision in the world will not prevent a dog bite (or worse) to a child. A person is never as fast as a dog, and I have heard stories from parents who were just a few feet away, watching, when the event unfolded in the blink of an eye. Instead of supervision, therefore, my perspective is that kids and dogs require active coaching through their interactions. So I teach parents what kid behaviors are dos and don'ts, what behaviors in their dogs signal that stress is building, and how to guide things in the right direction. When they can't be doing that, the dog should be in his or her Safety Zone (someone mentioned in a post they confine their dog when kids come over, and I applaud that ounce of prevention). If the dog's daily needs are being met, there is no need for people to feel guilty about using the Safety Zone (and teaching kids to respect it as off-limits). Anyway, it is a topic near and dear to me, so I could go on and on (when that kept happening I wrote a book on it), but suffice it to say anyone on these boards is more than welcome to link to, print out, hand out, or otherwise use any of the PDF's I have under Dog Warning Signs on my links page (Dos and Don'ts List, How to Create a Safety Zone, ABC's of Dog Safety, Warning Signs etc.) that you think would be useful for preventing injury and promoting empathy. Barbara P.S. Oh! And there is a *terrific* new children's book for kids ages 3-8 that teaches all the right things. Even what to do with a dog who jumps up, is shy, or gets growly when touched. And on top of that it's funny. It's called Don't Lick the Dog by Wendy Wahman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRipley Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 And there is a *terrific* new children's book for kids ages 3-8 that teaches all the right things. Even what to do with a dog who jumps up, is shy, or gets growly when touched. And on top of that it's funny. It's called Don't Lick the Dog by Wendy Wahman. I think I've found a new gift for all my friends' children! Barbara, that's great you are working so hard to educate people about kids and dogs. Do you find that the people who take the classes are "dog savvy" people to begin with, though? I'm the one who confines my dogs when toddlers come over. I didn't mean to make it sound like I think kids and dogs can't get along at all... if I had my own children of course I would not keep them separated 100% of the time. I'd be one seeking your information! I love it when we meet kids who ask permission to pet my dogs. You can tell that their parents taught them well. I cringe when children come running towards my dogs screaming "dogs!!!" I've attempted to politely tell parents that they shouldn't allow their kids to do that and should always ask permission before petting strange dogs, and usually get an annoyed response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topnotchdog Posted June 4, 2009 Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I think I've found a new gift for all my friends' children! I feel like Santa, I have been giving them to everyone I know under 4 ft. tall. Barbara, that's great you are working so hard to educate people about kids and dogs. Do you find that the people who take the classes are "dog savvy" people to begin with, though? No, in a way that is the beauty of it. They really love their dogs and sometimes think of them as their first "kid," some have taken a class when the dog was young. And the vast majority of them have as their goal that their dog and child grow to be friends (I surveyed the class participants early on). But most of what we cover is new to them, especially the dog body language info. In a recent class I taught, there was a man who knew lots of subtleties about dog body language. It turned out he worked for the electric company and they had taught their employees how to avoid dog bites! I'm the one who confines my dogs when toddlers come over. I didn't mean to make it sound like I think kids and dogs can't get along at all... if I had my own children of course I would not keep them separated 100% of the time. I'd be one seeking your information! I totally understand. One of my dogs can be out and interact with kids who visit, the other can't. Tons of kids live with dogs and visit dogs and it goes well. Just a smidge more info would really help most people who don't know how to avoid becoming part of the statistics. I love it when we meet kids who ask permission to pet my dogs. You can tell that their parents taught them well. Me too. I always thank them, it makes my day. I cringe when children come running towards my dogs screaming "dogs!!!" I've attempted to politely tell parents that they shouldn't allow their kids to do that and should always ask permission before petting strange dogs, and usually get an annoyed response. I body block those kids! And then I deal directly with the kids. "You guys really seem to like dogs! Let me show you something most grownups don't know, how to make friends so the dog won't feel afraid," or something to that effect. If anyone breaks the "one at a time" rule, I body block again. I have to look out for my dog. And in a way it is looking out for the kids, too. For dogs who don't like kids, the coaching turns into "He gets nervous and if you try to touch him might bite, but would you like to see him do a trick?" Barbara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoseAmy Posted June 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2009 I was only joking about manatory classes...Just wishful thinking that people would educate themselves and their dogs more so things like this wouldn't happen. Barbara I teach a puppy class and we do work with food and kids and dogs. and proper behavior on everybody's part. The sad fact remains that an 18 month old child was left alone with a dog that had food. No one knows what if anything she did to set the dog off. The fact also remains that the child ran back without the dog attached to her. So again no one can say how bad of bite he gave he, at that age their little skin would rip easily. I also agree that the parents made the right choice in regard to the dog. I don't see how they would ever mistake or not have "nice" feelings towards the dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 Personally, I don't believe that ANY dog should be unsupervised with ANY child younger than at least 4. That's why they make baby gates. That I don't agree with. If that were the case I would have raised 3 kids not two. I had a BC named Surra that saved the life of my daughter when she was 2. As I said before I've never had a problem with dogs and kids. I even introduced both dogs to toddlers considering my grandkids. 2-5 year old only know dogs as their friends and playmates. You have to teach the same thing to the dogs. Historically dogs have protected our children from the time they're born until the dog passes. Incidences like this one do happen and it is not just confined to incidences betwen children and dogs but adults as well. As responsible dog owners it falls on us to try to teach those not in the know about dogs. Especially when you consider how many people know nothing about our best friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbc1963 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 We had yet another in a long recent line of dog bites here: http://www.eagletribune.com/archivesearch/..._148194125.html These do really scare me - all the more since I had my little "incident" getting between Buddy and a loose dog as they snarked and ending up with three stitches. Three stitches to the hand is no small thing, I now know - between the shots and the rxn to the antibiotic and the very slow healing, it's been a little traumatic! I am fearful now when I think I see a loose dog approaching us as we walk. ::Sigh:: So, reading this story of a little girl who required 50 stitches to her face really upsets me. I would never, ever let my dog be near a small child unsupervised. Yet, when I was a kid, we were always around dogs unsupervised. They were all "local" dogs, though, neighborhood pets who had grown up with us and who ran free through our yards all day. Maybe that was part of it - the fact that the dogs were basically free creatures, who could come and go as they pleased. Now, they're all captives - stuck with kids whether they want to be around them or not! And maybe I'm only remembering the dogs from my later childhood - age 8 and up - when I was old and smart enough to read their body language and back off if they snarled or gave a warning glare. Mary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted June 5, 2009 Report Share Posted June 5, 2009 I do think it depends on the dog but I think it's my old age, I"d never let a toddler alone with a dog anymore either. I did when my kids were younger and nothing really bad happened but I"m just to parnoid now. My sister lets her grandbaby around her rottie all the time. The baby was born into the family with the rottie already being there. THey just rescued a standard poodle and I think he's going to be a rude awakening to them about leaving the baby alone with a dog. Hope they learn it before something happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G. Festerling Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 Small children are never to be left alone with any dog. Dogs that show no bite inhibition need to be put down for the most part. Despite the best supervision, accidents will happen. I understand "real" accidents. That is life to a normal extend! That does not mean we have to end up traumatized or unable to live life. We try to avoid letting the kids touch the hot stove, run with scissors etc. Some of it is a learning experience. No warning from a parent will ever have as much impact on a kid as the reprimand of someone/something else! Sad but true. But, it is the responsibility of the parent and or dogowner to make sure that the learning can take place without endangering either party! On the mandatory dog behavior classes, there is no way to reinforce that. However, maybe a reward system like a coupon for spays or neuters, vaccines or other stuff would encourage good folks to take the time and interest to look into it. Bad folks will not be enticed either way. They should simply not own dogs or have children. Both gifts are wasted on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pansmom Posted June 6, 2009 Report Share Posted June 6, 2009 It's sad that children must be kept away from dogs like they are both loaded pistols. It says something sad about the whole modern situation. But in the pre-modern situation, wouldn't a dog that showed ANY AGGRESSION toward ANY HUMAN whatever simply be taken out back and shot? ETA: I don't know. I guess I do think it is true that dogs that are free-ranging and can run at the sign of something they are scared of, are less likely to feel cornered, and thus less likely to bite. Most of Pan's incidents have occurred when she felt confined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerfulgazelle Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Oh, the poor child. Our dear, dumb English Bulldog (who was well down the path of having "issues" come up---health, cognition, chronic pain...I have posted about Molly before) sealed her fate when her escalating behavior/aggression problems included: walking up to and challenging DS (who was a toddler at the time) for a toy he was carrying and, not long after, putting her feet up on his high chair/booster and snarling/snapping, trying to take a soft breadstick away from him as he ate it. Molly was euthanized within the week. I simply was not ever going to be making a visit to our local pediatric hospital to have my son's hand or face put back together. DD, 6 yrs old, knows how to behave around the dogs. Still, she gets supervision with them---now mostly reminders not to mess with them when they are eating or get in the middle of "bitey-face" dogplay. However, her little next door friend, who is 7, almost 8, has not a clue, no matter how much coaching I give about how to conduct himself around our dogs. He is not mean, doesn't poke or grab at them---more often, he is skittish and darts around them alot. (I don't think he's actually fearful of them, just sorta nervous. He's a tiny little thing, much smaller than my 6 yr old, and seems to act as if he thinks the dogs might knock him over, altho they never have.) So, now we crate them when he's over, because even supervised, it was just clearly not a good mix. I can't think of an acceptable reason to have an 18 month old + candy + dog in the same space. Heck, I can't think of an acceptable reason for an 18 month old to have candy in a room separate from adult supervision/while walking around---just from a choking hazard standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 On the mandatory dog behavior classes, there is no way to reinforce that. However, maybe a reward system like a coupon for spays or neuters, vaccines or other stuff would encourage good folks to take the time and interest to look into it. Bad folks will not be enticed either way. They should simply not own dogs or have children. Both gifts are wasted on them. I'm beginning to think that trained dogs are a rarity. I go to the pet store, out for a walk anywhere and I get compliments and comments like "I wish my dog would do that." I respond you can and try to steer them to classes. What I get back is they don't have the time. Granted I spend more time than most with my dogs but it doesn't take that much time during the day to work on training and it can be done the way we do it while out for a walk or while just watching TV. But in the pre-modern situation, wouldn't a dog that showed ANY AGGRESSION toward ANY HUMAN whatever simply be taken out back and shot? Not always. I thinik one of todays problems is while owners say they want to have an obedient dog but aren't willing to invest the time. After all it is like raising children. ETA: I don't know. I guess I do think it is true that dogs that are free-ranging and can run at the sign of something they are scared of, are less likely to feel cornered, and thus less likely to bite. Most of Pan's incidents have occurred when she felt confined. On the subject of behavior and dogs I have always considered myself an above average trainer. Especially having trained several champions in Frisbee and obedience as well as SAR, trail dogs and more. I have never read any books on training and just seem to have a knack for it. For the last week I have been reading "The Other End of the Leash" By Patricia McConnell PhD, it was recommended by people on this and other forums and by my trainer. Confession: Aft6er reading 108 pages, about half, I am amazed that my dogs over the past 35+ years ever did anything I wanted them to do much less turning out to be wonder dogs at anything except crapping in the yard. What I have learned and applied to Jin is incredible. The results were immediate amd I am asking myself how did I ever get my dogs to do what I wanted? Jin starts intermediate obedience next week. I am going to approach this class with a whole new perspective and the understanding that the instructor is not training my dog but is in fact training me. Somehow I don't think most people realize this simple but important fact when taking a class. If you haven't read Pat McConnell's book I do highly recommend it. Very insightful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaileytheCollie Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I also agree...any dog should be supervised with a young child....I believe they shouldn't have put the dog down, but instead found a home for her with no kids...but they might not have had much of a choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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