mattinky Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 My puppy, Kate, is really aggravating me... She sometimes ignores me when I call her to come to me, especially after we've been outside. I'll hold the door open and call for her and she'll come up on the porch but then seems to ignore me no matter what I do and just fart around like she does'nt even hear me. So, I go inside and close the door and after a few minutes she'll be scratching at the door and crying wanting in. Also, sometimes when I call her she comes within about 4 feet of me and just stops and won't come any further. 75% of the time she does very well and comes right to me, but it just seems like the other 25% of the time she just is'nt interested in listening to me. It's not a fear issue as she is very comfortable around me and I have not been mean to her in any way, I have not spanked her or struck her (I don't roll like that) nor have I been excessive in my corrections. She's just 7 weeks old, am I just expecting too much too soon? What do I need to do? Thanks Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Not a trainer, but I think you might be expecting too much from a seven week old pup. Mine came 90 % of the time at that age because I would be walking away when I called and he would scamper after me to be safe, but he wasn't really coming because he was called. He is now almost 12 weeks old and rockets to me when I call surprisingly even if he's with another dog. What did/do I do? When he was your pup's age whenever I put him out to pee in the front yard I would call him in and then treat him as he came in the door. I did this every time for a couple of days, carried treats to the trails where we walk off leash, treats in the house, etc. I also praised him, patted and scratched him etc. made a big fuss. Gradually I would only treat every second time, then every third, but always making the big fuss, What a good boy, etc.. I still treat him every once in awhile as I am asking more of him now. Coming running from playing with another dog on the trails as I mentioned. Coming up from the back yard where he loves to play. So far, so good. He seems very proud of himself, all pumped and waggy tailed. Flyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I think you have already answered a couple of your own questions but not noticed that the answer is right there. As Flyer points out, this is a very young pup and no pup will be 100% at that age. Use of small, soft, yummy treats is a reasonable idea. As you have said, NO SCOLDING or PUNISHMENT of any sort when the pup does come, no matter how frustrated you are. "Getting there" should be a happy thing, treats (if you treat), petting, praise, attention are all good rewards. Just an example (and I am sure you already know this principle) - our neighbor's dogs have a tendancy to come into one of our own (or rented) fields to bark at our dogs sometimes. Our dogs normally respond with some chasing of their own (all though I have to admit that they knock it off when I call). The other day, this happened again and both the neighbor and I called our own dogs back. I praised mine when they came right away. The neighbor hollered numerous times and, when they finally came back reluctantly, he said, "BAD DOG, BAD DOG!" Now, which dogs will come eagerly next time? Timing is everything. When the dogs finally did what they were told, they were scolded. Not good. Another idea to utilize is to call her to the door, and then take her back into the yard to play as a "reward" for coming to you at the door. If you only call her to the door to end the fun, she will associate coming to the door with the end of a pleasant activity and be reluctant to come. So, make it usually a good thing in her mind as just a minor interruption in a pleasant time outside, with more fun time as the reward. She may stop a few feet from you because she doesn't want to be "caught". So, when she comes, offer a treat or a petting, but don't take hold of her or her collar and never "grab" for her collar. Make sure that being near you is a very positive thing for her by associating it with good rewards. As you have noticed, turning your back and leaving makes the pup want to come to you. Trainers often use walking backwards as an enticement, all the while encouraging the pup with a happy voice and inviting posture on your part. Posture is another key - some dogs and pups are less comfortable with people bending over them and reaching out so, crouch down and open your arms to make yourself less intimidating and more inviting. These are all some techniques you can try to help improve the recall. One other thing that many trainers do is to put a pup on a long line (you can make one from clothesline and a small snap) so that, if the pup tends to ignore or walk off when you call, he/she has no choice but to come to you because you are "attached" and, while being inviting in voice and posture, the pup cannot get away from you. This is an excellent safety precaution when outside a fenced area. I would not go inside and leave Kate outside, though. There are two reasons for this - one is that she is no longer under your direct supervision, and that's not a good thing for any dog outside but especially not for a tiny pup. Secondly, she is learned to come to the door and scratch and whine, and you will reward that behavior (scratching and whining) with giving her what she wants (inside with you). I would not do that but would practice these other techniques to improve the recall. It is quite amazing how quickly these intelligent youngsters can learn good manners and obedience with consistent, early training. Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsms99 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I would just add not to practice it over much, particularly at that age. 7 weeks isn't training time, it is confidence-with-you building time. Use come when it makes sense (such as coming inside). Depending on temperature, I might let the pup stay outside past the whining to come in stage for 5 minutes or so, then open the door and say "Come!". They don't need training sessions at 7 weeks, but they can start picking up the meaning of come & sit. In a few weeks - maybe 3-4 weeks from now - I'd start SHORT training sessions. This is the time to convince the pup that you are the ultimate source of good ideas & protection. Commands will come fast enough after this critical base is firmly established. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinky Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Thank you all very much for the tips, I appreciate it. It's been nearly 13 years since I've had a puppy and I've forgotten at what age they start to respond to training, guess I was expecting too much too soon. And, you've brought up some good points I had'nt thought about. On the plus side she's doing very well with her house training, I'm being very patient and spending lots of time with her so I'll give it a while and keep your tips in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailrider Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 My puppy, Kate, is really aggravating me... She sometimes ignores me when I call her to come to me, especially after we've been outside. It scares me that you could be aggravated by a 7 week old baby. I do hope you will become more prepared for life with a dog. When this baby starts to mature she will naturally behave in some undesirable attitudes, so I am concerned for her innocence resulting in unfair consequences. Help her grow and learn how to communicate kindly as you teach the pup. Go with the flow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ziggzmom Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 My puppy, Kate, is really aggravating me... She sometimes ignores me when I call her to come to me, especially after we've been outside. I'll hold the door open and call for her and she'll come up on the porch but then seems to ignore me no matter what I do and just fart around like she does'nt even hear me. So, I go inside and close the door and after a few minutes she'll be scratching at the door and crying wanting in. Also, sometimes when I call her she comes within about 4 feet of me and just stops and won't come any further. 75% of the time she does very well and comes right to me, but it just seems like the other 25% of the time she just is'nt interested in listening to me. It's not a fear issue as she is very comfortable around me and I have not been mean to her in any way, I have not spanked her or struck her (I don't roll like that) nor have I been excessive in my corrections. She's just 7 weeks old, am I just expecting too much too soon? What do I need to do? Thanks Matt Hi Matt, Remember Kate is just a baby....She's a blank page and needs you to show her in a kind, patient way what your rules and expectations are. At this point she has no idea what come means. Just think about it from her point of view....There are soooo many wonderful smells to smell and things to see. She has no attention span yet and I wouldn't take it as ignoring you, she doesn't know that's not ok, she's only 7 weeks old=) Their noses catch a wonderful scent or they spot a fascinating leaf or scrap of paper and that's what their already short attention span zeros in on. I always keep my puppies on a long line and will give one come command and don't repete the command. If I need to, I have the long line to enforce that command. That way they learn that there is no other way than to come when called. I let them drag a long line for months and months, depending on the dog. I'd rather not have my dog learn that come is an optional command. Have patience with your baby and you'll be surprised at what an amazing dog she will become=) Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherrip Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 my wiskey is only 15 weeks old and we are also hit or miss with our recalls, she will generally always start coming but how far can be debatable at times. what i do that works like a charm is i squat down and throw my arms out like i was going to get a big hug and say come and wiskey always comes to this it is very inviting for her and i praise her like crazy once she gets to me. once she sees me squat there is generally no hesitation because i am at her level for kisses and good pettings. i would recommend this. i bet it would work. this is how i taught wiskey to come to me when i first started training her and sometimes she just needs the reminding by me squatting still. i do think you are expecting a bit too much from her to come at 7 weeks old everytime, but she will come alot more by doing this i promise ps i expected alot off wiskey too when we first got her and pushed her too much too soon but i found with this technique she was always happy to come to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinky Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 My puppy, Kate, is really aggravating me... She sometimes ignores me when I call her to come to me, especially after we've been outside. It scares me that you could be aggravated by a 7 week old baby. I do hope you will become more prepared for life with a dog. When this baby starts to mature she will naturally behave in some undesirable attitudes, so I am concerned for her innocence resulting in unfair consequences. Help her grow and learn how to communicate kindly as you teach the pup. Go with the flow. I've had dogs all my life, Kate is the 6th BC that I've had and I know all about life with a dog. I assure you that there won't be any "unfair consequences' with her. Just because I get aggravated with her at times does'nt mean she's going to be mistreated as I would never do anything like that, in fact she's lying in my lap asleep as I type this. She's getting lots and lots of love, kindness, attention and play time. I'm ignoring her boo boos and praising her for the good things. Like I said, it's been years since I've had a puppy and I'm a little rusty and just don't remember when my other dogs started to learn, that's why I asked for advice - I want to get it right. That's the reason I joined here, to learn more about what to do and what not to do so please don't think I've got a heart like Hitler LOL Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kylebrk Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Matt, I just wanted to let you know that Piper did the same thing. It frustrated the crap out of me. I eventually had to come to the realization that I was in fact asking too much out of a 7-9 weeks old pup. She eventually came around. I just didnt want you to feel bad or alone. Sometime on these boards it's easy to feel isolated pretty quick. I just wanted you to know that I've been in the same boat. The dog will come along as will your ability. Take Care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinky Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 Matt, I just wanted to let you know that Piper did the same thing. It frustrated the crap out of me. I eventually had to come to the realization that I was in fact asking too much out of a 7-9 weeks old pup. She eventually came around. I just didnt want you to feel bad or alone. Sometime on these boards it's easy to feel isolated pretty quick. I just wanted you to know that I've been in the same boat. The dog will come along as will your ability. Take Care. Thanks for the kind words, it's reassuring... I guess I should have said frustrated instead of aggravated. I was totally crushed when I lost my last dog and Kate is like a little furry ray of sunshine in my life right now. I just don't want anyone to think I would ever mistreat her, that does make me feel bad... Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diane allen Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 I'm going to respectfully disagree with Sue - but not really, methinks. She wrote, " So, when she comes, offer a treat or a petting, but don't take hold of her or her collar and never "grab" for her collar. Make sure that being near you is a very positive thing for her by associating it with good rewards. " I had a bit of a "collar grab shy" dog. So what I did was just the opposite: when he did come, I grabbed for the collar, THEN treated. Did this a few times, THEN let him go again! He learned pretty quickly that coming was good, and my grabbing for the collar (which of course sometime you'll have to do!) was good, and the fun didn't end there! Agree with the age issue - my guy came when I called quite readily until he was about 8 months old. That lasted several months, and I thought it was hopeless. If I hadn't done lots and lots and lots of fun/treated recalls when he was younger, he may not have ever grown out of this. But now, as someone else mentioned, I can call him away from the fence when he's barking at the neighbor's dog playing on the other side - and there ain't much more fun than that for him! Enjoy puppyhood! It just doesn't last long enough... diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattinky Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Kate is doing better, I've been squatting down to her level when I call her and it really seems to be helping. It's funny but she seems to have no interest in treats so I've given up on that for the time being, maybe I just have'nt found something she really likes yet. I'll try the treat thing again when she's a little older. She's a real sweet girl, and doing better every day with her house training and fetching her ball, I'm very happy with her at this time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Diane made a very good point and it illustrates that there is often more than one way to train a behavior or deal with an issue. Don't worry about a lack of interest in treats - that can be due to your using items that are not interesting to her or you may just have a pup/dog that isn't food oriented. That's okay because many trainers don't use treats, and praise, petting, and voice can be excellent rewards for the right behaviors. And, yes, your pup is very little. Training sessions will necessarily be very short but you also can realize that training isn't only happening in training "sessions" - it's happening to some degree or another any time you are interacting (and sometimes when you are apparently not interacting). Sure, you may have used a word that gave a wrong impression - don't we all? Best wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eileen Stein Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I have moved this thread to the General Border Collie Discussion Forum, because this thread is for training dogs to work livestock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllieMackie Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 My Finnegan is 12 weeks, and I'm lucky if he comes when called half the time. The puppy mind is too busy and all over the place, and while some may disagree, and have a solid recall at 12 weeks, I'm sure some will also agree that not having a solid recall at 12 weeks is normal. Finnegan is currently trained to stop what he's doing and to look at me when I call his name. If I call his name and he's not in sight, he comes to me to look at me. This will be worked into a recall, of course, but it's baby steps. I'm happy with that at the moment, as it still gets his attention when I need it, and diverts him from things he may not be supposed to be doing - and it works 95% of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyer Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 My Finnegan is 12 weeks, and I'm lucky if he comes when called half the time. The puppy mind is too busy and all over the place, and while some may disagree, and have a solid recall at 12 weeks, I'm sure some will also agree that not having a solid recall at 12 weeks is normal. Finnegan is currently trained to stop what he's doing and to look at me when I call his name. If I call his name and he's not in sight, he comes to me to look at me. This will be worked into a recall, of course, but it's baby steps. I'm happy with that at the moment, as it still gets his attention when I need it, and diverts him from things he may not be supposed to be doing - and it works 95% of the time. This cracks me up. I love your pup. Do you have any video you could download? Can a person even download vid on this site? I think your pup is the antithesis of mine. If they were a standup act like The Smothers Brothers (probably before your time) My Colt would be Dick and your Finn would be Tommy, Martin/Colt and Lewis/Finn, you get the picture? To the OP glad to hear things are going better with your gal. Flyer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Try teaching "Come on" it means follow me. I have it working on a 9 week old puppy who is currently being lead trained. After they have learned "Come on" han learned to just walk aroiund on a lead (no heal training) then you can work on come using the lead and chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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