Multi dog households

[pammyd]

Hi all

As I have accidently become a 2 dog household I have now had the joy of a few dogfights (surprised me - Ben has never been in a fight in his life)

I am pretty much adopting a zero tolerance policy for any posturing, lip curling, guarding, bullying or long stares gets Mia a time out

But (although there has been no real injuries) it has left me unsettled - I truly wasnt expecting it at all and although it is early days with Mia it is making me worry if we will be able to keep her (they do love each other most of the time and have lots of play fights and things - its just that odd 1% of the time when she can fly at him - sometimes when he isnt even looking at her or touching anything!)

I mentioned this to my friends and they laughed and said they had fights all the time

 

am I living in a dreamworld not expecting fights?? and if these are a normal thing how can you trust the dogs to be left alone together?? and am I dealing with things the right way??

 

and I do mean fights and not playfights - had to pry her jaws off Ben one time!!

 

Thanks in advance

[TAC2]

I grew up in a multi-dog household and have never been without at LEAST two dogs...so I really don't know what it is like to have just one The key is to never let it get started. You are right on track with not allowing the small stuff, because it never just happens out of the blue. Most people miss the "build up" signs and are shocked when the fight starts.

 

That said, two intact females in the same household can develop a "hatred" for one another. When I was around 10 years old we had two females that could never be in the same room at the same time. It was a real PITA, but thankfully not my job to worry about. The younger one was eventually sold on to a new home.

[bsms99]

I voted never. However, most of my two dog households have been mixed sex with a significant size difference. One will sometimes growl or snap (not bite), and the other has always backed down. That includes the larger backing down if the smaller one feels strongly about something. However, I've never had any draw blood or go over 3-4 seconds.

 

Now horses? THAT would be a different story...

[border_collie_crazy]

fairly often, but its because I dont have 1 pack of 7 dogs, I have 2 packs, one of 5 and one of 2. Happy, Misty, Electra, Rusty and Ladybug are all mine, they are my pack, and follow me nicely, rarly fighting amungst themselves.same deal with my mom and Perky and Ripley. now between the 2 packs is a different story! we liley would not have any fights if my mom and I lived seperate!

[Dixie_Girl]

I voted never because I don't let Jackson and Skip get to that point. Skip likes to give Jackson "looks" that cause him to growl, or Skip will give a lip curl, and I simply yell "HEY!", and that ends it. They never do any thing while I am gone. So, maybe the whole thing is me. Gee, maybe I need to be rehomed?!!

[Raven Lenore]

I voted Sometimes. Even though my dogs are not together while I am gone, when they are together, a tussel sometimes happens. Usually, it is because Megan (instigator) bumped Willow (high reactor). If I am there, I can stop it. Once in a while, Mecca the old crabby GSD will jump in. It's never more than a few words.

 

Having this many, I really have to make them all work for anything. It keeps their minds busy and they don't think so much about causing trouble. The easiest thing for me, I open all gates and call them through one at a time. Anyone that runs out before they are called, have to go back. When they come out, they either go inside, wait at the door or come to me and sit. I do look pretty silly standing out there calling 16 dogs one at a time!

[MrSnappy]

We don't have fights here. Piper is a witch though, so sometimes she punishes Tweed for going too far whilst playing or something, but Tweed never fights back. Tweed bites Woo on the schnoz about 30 times a day, but it's a grip bite and it's obviously seriously tempered because Mr. Woo just stands there and does nothing.

 

Otherwise, we sometimes have some Mad Teeth from Piper, otherwise they don't argue.

 

RDM

[Sasha's Mom]

I have a pack of 5 + fosters. I can recall 3 dogfights since we've been a multi-dog household (um, almost 6 years), but only 1 of them involved two in my pack. The other two were both involving a foster I had some time ago, a nursing mother boxer mix. I don't think she spoke "dog" very well, because I don't usually have that problem and this girl had problems with several of mine. Or vice versa.

 

We do make a concerted effort to minimize jealousy, and we feed in groups in separate rooms to prevent the bully from stealing the littler ones' food - this is our biggest trigger. Still, everyone is neutered and gets along pretty well. Grumpy-butt snarls a lot, but he'll just gruff.

 

Danielle

[Lizmo]

I also put "never". We used to have one once in a blue moon when we just had Lizzie and Major. But something seemed to "click" and they know the pack order now and dont try to mess with it.

 

Now that we've added two more pups, though, we do get alot more correcting from the older dogs. But thats really to be expected. Jake is starting to be more and more of a male, though. So he's getting fixed soon - or broken as my brother calls is

[momtotwo]

No fights but a pecking order is definately defined as each dog is added. Funny thing at our house it's the 3 pound chihuahua! The border collies eat when she says it's ok.

[SoloRiver]

I have three dogs and one of them is slightly mentally unstable. So yeah, it happens. However, this is assuming that every tussle is a "fight." If you mean knock down, drag out fight, no, we don't have those. If you have more than one dog, sometimes they are not all going to get along. If a loud "hey!" doesn't stop things and you find yourself frequently pulling dogs apart, there may be a problem.

[Shetlander]

am I living in a dreamworld not expecting fights?? and if these are a normal thing how can you trust the dogs to be left alone together?? and am I dealing with things the right way??

 

I don't think you're in a dreamworld. Or at least, if you are, I have the same dream. Quinn and my Lhasa do not care for each other. They haven gotten into small fights in the past. I seriously considered rehoming the Lhasa at one point. Instead, I took a zero tolerance approach like you to lip curls, growls, hard stares, etc. I don't allow one to steal the other's toy. I feed them in different rooms. I would never leave them loose together when I leave the house. I try to be very proactive in intervening before actual hostilities develop. For instance, they would snark about a dog bed or open crate. So no dog beds are out and crates are closed up at all times. That sort of thing. Knowing their triggers, knowing the subtle signs that are easy to miss (9 times out of 10 people have no idea what I am correcting Quinn for) can go a long way to creating a peaceful household.

 

It seems to be working but I will always need to be careful and mindful with them. I doubt they'll ever be friends and would be quite fine if the other dropped off the face of the Earth. But for the most part they coexist comfortably, which is all I really ask. They didn't request to be in a pack with each other, so I do my best to keep both feeling relaxed and safe. They are not allowed to work things out for themselves.

 

How long have you had Mia? If she is relatively new, I'd really want to make sure they could settle in together before I got too attached to the newcomer.

 

Have there been any puncture wounds or cuts? How do the dogs act after a fight? Scared, hostile, or shaking it off and going on their way? That is important information actually.

[Bo Peep]

I chose "sometimes" because of Bliss' problems with Usher fetching. Since we remove Bliss- outside- while Usher fetches at the park or in the house- no problems. So, now it would go to never. I think you just have to KNOW your dogs.

[theshine]

I voted "sometimes", but I would say very rarely. Probably a total of four in the last two years, and each time it was easy to break up and there were no injuries, but it was still definitely a fight. It's fresh on my mind because we just had one tonight between the two shelties over an empty kong. I had crated them seperately and given them stuffed kongs while we ate dinner, and when they were done I let them out. Ripley went into Frosty's crate and got the empty kong, and bam. I had to physically break them up for the first time ever, in the past I have just clapped or stomped. I learned something though, it's easily preventable in the future. It's all kind of a learning process to me, I watch them and learn what they're grouchy about, then manage that thing or situation. But for the most part they all get along, really well I'd say for being all males, the same age and roughly the same size.

[Kathy H.]

I didn't vote but would have to say sometimes. We have a 6 dog household and two of the females (border collies) truly hate each other. If they are in the same area, it is a fight and it can be nasty. So they have to be separated all the time, preferably visually as well as physically. The problem child is pretty unstable and she doesn't get along with females period, except the bouvier who is remarkably stable. They get along fine. She's fine with males but tears into females (except the bouvier)/

 

I can't rehome the problem child (she has too many problems to even think of that as a solution). At one point, I also had 2 male dogs who truly hated each other. They would spend all their time trying to find and kill each other. If you've never seen this level of hatred, count yourself lucky. The one dog figured out how to open a door knob to get to the other and attack him. In this case I was able to rehome one of the boys.

 

Otherwise, I've had multidog packs for many, many years with no real issues but it's one of those things where "never say never" applies. I used to think I could prevent all altercations with good pack management but sometimes you get 2 dogs who really, truly hate each other and then all bets are off.

 

This is not squabbles that you can end verbally; this is a whole different level of aggression (really obvious, you'd know it if you had it) and it seems to be personal (applies only to the two dogs who hate each other).

 

Kathy/Iowa

[Soda-pop]

I voted "sometimes" but I haven't had a fight, knock on wood, in many months. My two girls would get into it. I, like everyone else, took a no tolerance to any ugliness. I also would come UNGLUED at the fighting and put the fear of Jesus into both of my dogs.

 

I think, for them, it was a space issue, and a bossy issue. And Soda had a history of fighting with females in her previous home.

 

I also live in that "dream world" and expect my dogs not too fight but also know if they do, I need to manage the situation better.

[border_collie_crazy]

However, this is assuming that every tussle is a "fight." If you mean knock down, drag out fight, no, we don't have those.

 

yes I should probably metion that I am not refering to trying to kill each other fights lol, we had had those, but mostly that was caused by Rusty, he had been NASTY, I could not predict him, one minute he would be fine, the next he would start wailing on a sleeping dog, it was at the point that he had to be leashed and muzzled or crated at all times, because he did do damage that would have required stitches(we treated them ourselves, but a vet likley would have stitched them) Ripley still has a scar on his cheek from last year! Rusty is fine now though, once I said to heck with the "positive" stuff and showed him what for. we havent had any drag out fights since then, just self regulated "fights" or tussles whatever you wanna call them..basily if one of the other doesnt step in and sperate the fighters, then the attackee probably had it comming lol

[pammyd]

Thanks guys

 

It is really early days for Mia, she has been here 2 1/2 weeks with no real history known so I know that I really cannot tell how she is going to turn out (at the moment we are fostering but she might become perm- if we can sort this out)

 

There has been no dammage but lots and lots of noise and its hard to seperate cos she wriggles out of your grasp to go and get him again

I am feeding seperate and avoiding as meany trigger points as I can - and it is getting better, day 1 she was snarling at him thru the crate bars

Now they play together happilly or snooze together most of the time, only had one fight this week - totaly out of the blue - I honestly dont know what the trigger was, and a couple of times a day she will try and bully him - not let him down the stairs or something

She also spends a bit of time trying to hump him (which he thinks is just playing and loves)

 

She is under a year old so I am guessing she is trying to find her place and isnt confident enough to be dom but Ben is far to submissive a dog to take charge

[Wendy V]

10 dogs (6 females, 4 males with 3 being intact), no fights. All can be in the backyard or in the house together. Good pack management, as most were acquired as adults, but I agree with Kathy H that a bit of luck is involved. I truely wouldn't know how I would deal with a dog that developed a "hate" for another pack memeber. A dog such as that would unstabilize the entire household.

 

Otherwise, I've had multidog packs for many, many years with no real issues but it's one of those things where "never say never" applies. I used to think I could prevent all altercations with good pack management but sometimes you get 2 dogs who really, truly hate each other and then all bets are off.

[Colton's_Mom]

At our household there's 3 Rottweilers and 1 small dog. When I added Colton the two female Rottweilers got into one huge fight and then it was settled. I put in 'never', however, because I've seen 1 fight between my dogs since I've owned/grown up with Rottweilers (14 years). Our females might posture but it never turns into a fight. The little dog thinks she's above Colton and might snap at him but as far as real fights we get nothing.

[Shetlander]

She also spends a bit of time trying to hump him (which he thinks is just playing and loves)

 

She is under a year old so I am guessing she is trying to find her place and isnt confident enough to be dom but Ben is far to submissive a dog to take charge

 

That makes the situation trickier when there isn't a clear dominant one. True Alphas don't pick fights. They often control other dogs with a brief, calm look. They don't need to be in control of every little thing because they are confident and secure.

 

I would not allow the humping. Especially not for these two. She is trying to declare dominance. At this point, you should make it clear to her you are the Alpha and you are not looking for a Second in Command. This can really reduce the tension because it allows the dogs to relax and not worry about rank order.

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

In my personal home. There really arent fights but, Genie and Maddie dont care for each other. They usually group up in 3's with either girl.

 

As for the rescue. I do my best to prevent arguements. I agree though one agressive dog can destablize things. It's like a fight fight mentality.

 

There is really never bleeding or even serious injury but, the noise level is terrible. I think age plays a part.

 

Right now we have a large number of 6 to 8 month old boys so it's like the testosterone boys club. a higher mix of both sexes and ages makes it easier.

 

Oh and I forgot that certain breeds of dogs dont mix well with border collies. We wont take any cattle dogs as I swear they think their physical stance is agressive. We dont take american eskimo type dogs because the young border collies would snatch out hair on the way by. Like they are toys.

oh and no jack russels.

[Carson Crazies]

Before December of last year I was having fights quite frequently. My husband left and took the troublemaker WITH him, and suddenly I was down to NO fights. There were a couple of residual toussles right after she was gone, but that was easily broken up.

 

The situation boiled down to two spayed females jockeying for... everything. They didn't hate each other's guts to the point of not ever being able to be together, but would fight at the drop of a hat - often with little to no warning to my human eye - and neither one of them was EVER willing to back down. I had to be very diligent in my management to avoid problems.

 

The second issue was that I couldn't get them to stop short of beating them both over the head with the swiffer mop, or physically pulling them apart. It was really a situation of most likely having to rehome one of them, had the husband not taken care of that for me. Thankfully the dogs I have now and I have all been quite blessed by said exodus, and we've all breathed a sigh of relief.

 

With the pack I have now they not only rarely even look at each other cross-eyed, but if *I* even look at them cross-eyed they'll stop whatever they're doing, but that's rarely even an issue anymore. BUT, nowadays I only have two females (and an occasional female visitor) and those two females get along nicely.

 

I will say this - I expect there to be good behavior on everyone's parts. When Bree and Ginger started scuffing I was able to control things enough to get fights down from once a day to about once every four to five months, and that was progress. But as it is now, I expect there to be NO fights. I do, however, allow appropriate communication between all of the dogs.

[2 Devils]

My dogs have squabbles but blood is rarely drawn. When blood is drawn is a scrape and once in a blue moon it is a puncture. That has happened rarely.

 

My acd and toy poodle have more freedom when we are not home and are not crated. They are confined to the family room/kitchen area. The border collie and borderjack are crated when we are not home. When all the dogs are out a quick "HEY" usually stops all squabbles. If not, one dog ends up crated for a short time for a calm down period.

[Debbie Crowder-BaaramuLuke]

Sounds like half the 'Never's" are actually "Sometimes", which I voted. In truth, yes, some of my dogs aren't crazy for each other's company, mostly Simon and Turk having this thing for each other, and I stop the eyeballing and posturing while I'm in their company when we go for walks as a pack. They are civil and I've never had to pry them apart. Like Melanie, a good "HEY" stops it in a flash when they go at it if I miss the start of a fight.

I know of folks who have lost dogs to fighting, and it was in situations where they were unsupervised, uncrated (or at least not contained separately) and nobody there to break it up. They can do it, so I'd have a management plan for keeping the peace. Everybody rests easier.