Nosework

[mum24dog]

OK - you see BCs doing S&R and other jobs involving scenting ability. Is mine a freak?

I realised today that if I were ever to get him to use his nose I'd have to put just as much work into him as I did my lurcher.

He lost his ball in long grass and yes, he did look for it for a long time - with his eyes and way away from where it actually was. The will was there but not the brains.

Same situation with my other dogs -

The hound would get his nose down and find it immediately even if he didn't know what he was looking for.

My collie cross would scent out a ball but could get distracted along the way.

My JRT and my mongrel would just say "Nah - get it yourself. Not interested in balls. A rabbit - yes."

 

Just wondering if the fact that he has an extremely strong eye makes a difference. Do BCs with less eye make better scent dogs?

 

Pam

[Root Beer]

One thing I've noticed about my Border Collies vs. my mutts who are sniffers, is that they don't tend to sniff unless they pick up a scent in the first place.

 

Dean is like your dog. If he loses a ball he looks and looks and looks and it seems like he never stops to sniff for it.

 

But, if he is running across the lawn and he happens to catch the scent of a ball, he will stop, sniff it out, and grab it.

 

Speedy learned to sniff for things when we taught him a "find it" game in the house. He still tends to look more than sniff, but when he's looking for a lost toy, he is more inclined to use his nose than he was before we taught him that game.

[mum24dog]

if he is running across the lawn and he happens to catch the scent of a ball, he will stop, sniff it out, and grab it.

 

Our collie X is an air scenter rather than a nose to the ground type, but it's obvious when he's doing it.

Give him a line of scent articles and he'll run right over them all without even seeming to pay attention to any of them, then double back and go straight to the right one.

Our BC doesn't even do that.

Maybe he isn't completely dumb though. He often loses his ball in the water so he searched downstream for 50 yards or so looking for it. It just happens that this time he'd dropped right at the top of the bank!

 

Pam

[mtnbound]

I always wondered about this too. I would love to get Kona involved in SAR but he is TERRIBLE with his nose. I've dropped kibble on the floor right between his front paws and he has trouble. As he's sniffing behind his bum or between his back legs for something that is literally straight down from his nose, our Toller will walk across the room and gobble it up.

[jamesqf]

Dean is like your dog. If he loses a ball he looks and looks and looks and it seems like he never stops to sniff for it.

 

Consider yourself lucky: if Niki loses a ball, she stops and waits until the human fetches it for her. Which, the human being rather stubborn too, may be a couple of days later, if ever. I think we currently have 4 squeaky ones & two plain out there somewhere :-)

[Root Beer]

Our collie X is an air scenter rather than a nose to the ground type, but it's obvious when he's doing it.

Give him a line of scent articles and he'll run right over them all without even seeming to pay attention to any of them, then double back and go straight to the right one.

Our BC doesn't even do that.

 

Dean doesn't really air scent, either. Sammie does that, and like your collie mix, it's very obvious.

 

With Dean it's like he's traipsing along . . . la, la, la . . . and all of a sudden - BALL! I smell a ball!! Then he will usually spot it and grab it. If he does sniff, it's nose to the ground at that point.

 

It's rather comical. He often starts running across the lawn with one toy, but gets to me with another. He can't resist trading a toy out for one he happens to smell as he's running by!

[Boon]

I would love to get Kona involved in SAR but he is TERRIBLE with his nose. I've dropped kibble on the floor right between his front paws and he has trouble. As he's sniffing behind his bum or between his back legs for something that is literally straight down from his nose, our Toller will walk across the room and gobble it up.

 

That is absolutely my Blue, If I drop a snack and he is not paying attention its as if its invisible, I can point directly at it and he is looking around everywhere but where the snack is! However my wifes little JRT could sniff out half a Cherrio from 100yds with a 20 mile an hour crosswind in the rain! She is quite honestly the lightest vacuum I have ever owned.

[Maralynn]

All dog have scenting ability far superior to what we can comprehend, it's just that with some dogs you need to teach them how to use that ability. Just 'cause they're smart doesn't mean they know everything

 

Keep in mind that scent works a bit different than sight - it get tracked around and carried by slight air currents. Picture yourself standing near a grill with a stiff breeze blowing, standing 10ft upwind you might not be able to smell it, but stand the same distance downwind and you know for sure that it's there.

 

He lost his ball in long grass and yes, he did look for it for a long time - with his eyes and way away from where it actually was. The will was there but not the brains.

 

Maybe there was residual scent in the vicinity?

[mum24dog]

Maybe there was residual scent in the vicinity?

 

I don't think so in this case.

The ball was at the top of a steep bank leading down to a stream. He never looked anywhere but in the stream itself where the ball hadn't been for several weeks (with heavy rain in between raising the water level considerably).

 

Pam

[urge to herd]

Shoshone can't find a ball to save her soul, when we're actually playing fetch. I used to think perhaps her close up vision and/or sense of smell were faulty, but after observing my quirky girl for a couple more years, I think it's a combination of being OH! so EXCITED!!! when playing fetch that she can't do anything methodically, and being a very rigid sort of personality. If she last saw something in a certain place, that's where it should be when she looks for it again. No discussion, no options. As DH observed once, Shonie is a dog of very clear and certain opinions about just everything.

 

The main reason that I think it's more a behavioral thing with her than a defect in her schnozz is that a couple times, she has found things at the park and at home that were in no way visible to her, and she wasn't engaged in ball playing or or anything, just sniffing around and not hyper focused. The two times at the park, we'd left misplaced a ball a day or two earlier and left it behind. Shoshone found one under a trash can, wouldn't leave it until I came over and lifted the can up and she could grab it in triumph. The other was very similar.

 

Buzz loves to sniff and will check out the ground on command, quartering sort of to find something. So I don't think it's necessarily breed related, more quirk related.

 

Ruth n the BC3

[Root Beer]

This is what I did to teach Speedy to find the ball when it's lost outside.

 

1. Indoors (this is a great winter indoor game!!) I had my husband hold him and put his hands over Speedy's eyes (Speedy did not mind this). I took his ball and placed it on the floor. He could hear me place it and he knew where it was. Then I sat down and said "Find it!" and then my husband let Speedy go. At first, of course, the ball was right there in plain sight so it was very simple for him to find it and grab it.

 

2. Once he knew the game, I started to hide it in places where it would be very easy to find. Also, at this point, I made sure he heard where I was putting it. Then I sat down and said "find it!" The first few times we did this, he would stop and look to me for help, but I waited him out. Since it was very easy to find, he found it immediately when he did look for it.

 

3. Once he had that down pat, I threw in the twist that makes it fun. After I hid it, I would move around the room a bit so he wouldn't be able to tell where I had put it. I might hide the ball behind the chair on the right side of the room and then I would go and touch wood in the wood box (so he could hear), and then walk over near him, etc. Now he couldn't be sure of the exact area in the room where it would be, so he really had to start looking.

 

He almost always goes to the last place he found the ball to look for it, but once he knows it's not there, he starts to search. This was the point where I first saw him start to deliberately sniff for it.

 

I also started to hide it in more complicated places at this point. Sometimes up on a window sill or a low shelf, so he had to search more than just the floor. Sometimes I would put it under a pillow or something.

 

4. After doing that, I would leave him in a sit-stay in another room while I placed the ball, and eventually we took the game outside.

 

Now if he loses a ball outside, if I say "find it", he starts to look and sniff for it.

 

I haven't gone through the process with Dean, and he has had the benefit of Speedy when we play outside. 9 times out of 10 if a ball is lost in the grass, Speedy will find it and point his nose at it for Dean. Dean hasn't had to learn to search it out himself. Maybe next winter we will take the time to teach him the game. I know he'd love it.

[mum24dog]

That's exactly the way I taught my lurcher.

First it took about 3 years to teach him to retrieve. Being basically a sight hound, if it wasn't moving it wasn't of any interest, or if it was moving it had to be killed, not retrieved.

(The purists amongst the lurchermen want a dog that brings back live game to hand, but he wasn't one of those.)

 

I don't think it would take that long to teach Kye, but as long as I have a scent hound I don't really need to.

 

All the other dogs I've had have needed to see the point of something before considering doing it. Kye doesn't need to and so ends up doing lots of pointless things. I still have to be convinced that BCs are as smart as people believe. (Sorry to those who think they are.)

 

Or maybe he is smart letting the others solve problems for him?

 

Pam

[WyoBC]

Mine doesn't use his nose either. When I first got him I thought all dogs know how to find stuff with their noses, since all of our other dogs (not BC's) used their noses. But I learned soon after getting him that he's the most nose deaf dog ever. If I throw the ball somewhere he can't see it forget him ever finding it. I have tried teaching him "find it" and other nose tricks but nothing works. He can find a piece of kibble under the fridge a month after I lose it though.

[SS Cressa]

Mine doesn't use his nose either. When I first got him I thought all dogs know how to find stuff with their noses, since all of our other dogs (not BC's) used their noses. But I learned soon after getting him that he's the most nose deaf dog ever. If I throw the ball somewhere he can't see it forget him ever finding it. I have tried teaching him "find it" and other nose tricks but nothing works. He can find a piece of kibble under the fridge a month after I lose it though.

 

 

Dunno- but you may be glad they DONT use their nose. Our 4 are extremely particular- they will only fetch THEIR toy, wait for THEIR toy to be thrown, etc. They will ignore if i grab a different toy and throw it- its not the right one. And each will only go on their turn- ignoring other throws waiting for their toy/ their turn. WHY- its fun, just go get one!!! lol- finesse is lost on us humans...

Even if its a STICK- and we throw a STICK in the middle of a bunch of other sticks, each one wants THEIRs- the one they picked out, they will find it, and bring back. Even in water- there will be 10 very nice sticks, but if its not THEIRS, its not good enough.

Its definitely scent too- its their nose thats working.

all 4 are border collies. I do not know about the EYE aspect tho.

[Tassie]

I do competition tracking with mine. and I think they do naturally tend to use eyes first, then air scent and only then ground scent - so you need to teach them to change that order when you want them to track. Some get it quicker than others . When you think about what they were bred for, it makes sense - their first method of finding sheep would be sight, then air scenting, and ground scenting only maybe to find a single or separated sheep.

[Guest SweetJordan]

Riley doesn't use her nose at all either. I have taught her "find it." She doesn't use her nose to play that game either, but it never takes her long to find the object regardless if where I hide it. Once I told her to find her "soccer ball"(it's soft and about the size of a softball), because I couldn't find it. Riley looked everywhere. Behind the couches, under the couches, behind the T.V., in her crate, upstairs, downstairs, etc. Every nook of the house got an inspection. She even looked up at the places I put it when it's out of her reach. When we couldn't find it I got a new one out. The next day I found the old one. It was on top of the refridgerator behind a water jug. I have no idea why I put it there. I learned not to have her find something when I don't know where it is myself.

 

A while back on a rainy day I played a game where I hid little tiny treats. But because Riley didn't use her nose, and my lab did he ended up with all the treats (except for the times I cheated to help Riley out). She knew what she was looking for, but would walk right past the treats. Due to the size of the treats they weren't easy to find without using the nose(which I didn't even think about at the time). We didn't play that one again, not with Riley anyway. I thought to myself "Riley why wouldn't you use your nose?"

 

My first dog I realized when I read this would use her eyes only to find something say during a "find it game, " or if say her ball was lost in the grass. But would use her nose to find fallen food, and to track on walks. She would also sniff deeply at the front door as I unlocked it or at the bathroom door if I was in there. So she liked to use her nose, just not for finding an object. She had a herding instict that wasn't fully developed though her gentic makeup was unknown. I could only guess as to what she had in her. I do change my mind from time to time as to what she had in her with the exception of beagle which was pretty obvious.

[mbc1963]

I think I've got a pretty good scent hound, for a BC. My dog loves to sniff for his squeaker. He stays in one room while I hide the toy in the next room, and then his job is to find and retrieve it. During that game, he's entirely about scent, though he uses his eyes as well. (If the toy isn't really covered, he'll spot it and get it right away.)

 

If we're out walking, Buddy will often get a sudden, bright, interested look, and pull in a certain direction. Several times he's tracked one of his doggie buddies that way. It's kind of fun to watch - and I get the thrill of finding out later who were are tracking.

 

But he never does that really intense, nose-to-ground thing you see bloodhounds doing. He sniffs air, mainly, and seems to follow invisible scent tracks that trail along, only occasionally putting his nose down to the ground to more firmly direct himself.

 

Mary

[ziggzmom]

OK - you see BCs doing S&R and other jobs involving scenting ability. Is mine a freak?

I realised today that if I were ever to get him to use his nose I'd have to put just as much work into him as I did my lurcher.

He lost his ball in long grass and yes, he did look for it for a long time - with his eyes and way away from where it actually was. The will was there but not the brains.

Same situation with my other dogs -

The hound would get his nose down and find it immediately even if he didn't know what he was looking for.

My collie cross would scent out a ball but could get distracted along the way.

My JRT and my mongrel would just say "Nah - get it yourself. Not interested in balls. A rabbit - yes."

 

Just wondering if the fact that he has an extremely strong eye makes a difference. Do BCs with less eye make better scent dogs?

 

Pam

 

Hi Pam,

 

I haven't noticed that 'eye' makes any difference, at least with mine=) They all LOVE tracking and get very excited when they know it's their turn to put the harness on!

 

My BC with the strongest eye initally wanted to look for the track and articles, but once he understood that he was supposed to use his nose he has developed into quite a good tracker. He's a very timid, soft dog that gets really worried about just about everything and tracking has been a blessing for him. He's so focused on the track that he forgets to be afraid. It's such a thrill for me when he will confidently lean into his harness and show me which way the track goes! For a little while he's a brave dog=)

 

Happy Tracking~

 

Janet

[ziggzmom]

I don't think so in this case.

The ball was at the top of a steep bank leading down to a stream. He never looked anywhere but in the stream itself where the ball hadn't been for several weeks (with heavy rain in between raising the water level considerably).

 

Pam

 

 

Scent will 'roll' downhill and water is a trap for scent(at least in my limited experience). So the rain was washing the scent downhill and it had most likely pooled at the bottom of the hill. Scent work is so interesting=)!

 

Janet