Is he winning ? are we to soft ?

[dali]

Our little rascal has realized that when he cries at night we get up to let him out.

I don't make a fuss , I open his cage , open the back door and let him out. When he comes in , I don't play with him or give him treats , just put him back in his cage.

 

He did really well , and even slept through a few nights. But the last two nights he has tried a few times to get us downstairs , open his cage ...and then he heads for the stairs instead of the back door.

( He has just started climbing the stairs this week , only up ..not down )

He figures that if we get to go upstairs..why not him???

 

My husband let him walk upstairs to see what he would do , and ..you guessed it ...he wanted to be on the bed.

 

He has been up there for a morning cuddle so he knows his way

but now that he can climb the stairs he seems to think he's entitled to go up as he pleases...even at night.

 

I really want him to get used to his cage . Our previous dog used to sleep in there as well and it helped me sleep . ( I'm a light sleeper and I kept waking up when our dog went downstairs for a drink or just to stretch his leggs.

 

We've kept the cage downstairs because of the distance to the backdoor but also because I would like him to be able to stay in there on his own for short periods of time.

 

My son would really like him to sleep in his room . I have no problems with that but I suggested that we wait until Dali sleeps through the night.

 

We've tried to ignore the cries or wining but it's hard . Not only mentally but also because we can't sleep then. Our house is very open plan and we don't have a lot of doors. So noise travels !!

And my son has to go to school early in the morning...I feel guilty if he doesn't have a good night sleep.

 

so ..are we too soft ..is Dali winning ??? should he be sleeping through the night now ( 12 week old)

any suggestions ??

[gypsy84]

When I got Gypsy at 9 weeks old, it took about a week of sleepless nights to crate train her. It was necessary that she knew whining/crying did not mean she got to come out of her kennel. After she got used to it, she was fine, and then at about 8 months old I felt I was able to trust her enough to spend the night out of the crate. She now sleeps on my bed with me

 

I think it's fine that you want your dog to sleep with your son, however IMO he should be able to spend the night in his kennel alone first. A puppy should be able to sleep through the night without accidents, which the crate reinforces since dogs instinctively don't want to mess in their beds. You don't NEED to let him out when he cries, and it's only reinforcing that whining=freedom from kennel. Your puppy might occasionally have an accident in his crate, but it shouldn't really be a problem if you let him out right before you put him to bed and as soon as you get up in the morning.

 

I know it's hard "ignoring" puppy wailing, (Gypsy developed a pitifully heart-wrenching "Aaarrooooooooo..." that almost got to me) but stick it out and it'll be worth it.

[afrancis]

When we were crate-training Skye, the strategy was at 6-7 weeks to place the crate at the foot of our bed and then with time, gradually move it out of the room, into the hall and then eventually to the kitchen downstairs. There was much crying early on (she would have preferred sleeping on our pillows next to our heads ) but we were told to stay the course and that eventually she would settle down. Although I can't remember the time-line, she did eventually sleep through the night with the crate in the kitchen after having been weaned from our sights upstairs, but not before having a horrendous incident of diarrhea inside her crate one night (I should have caught on -- her wailing was much more pronounced that night -- it was actually the smell that got me up -- she had stopped crying, no doubt in shame , by that time) Poor thing, I think this incident traumatized her so that the crying stopped abruptly thereafter. But all of this goes without saying that upon settling into her crate in the kitchen, she was promptly graduated to the bed and/or couch.

I'd say listen to your instincts and give her time. This stage will be over in no time and then you'll wonder what all the fuss was about!

Ailsa

[RaisingRiver]

A. Don't let pup sleep with son until crate trained, potty trained, and reliable about having free roam of house (ie. not chew stuff). A crate trained dog is a valuable thing.

B. Let the puppy WHINE (see D for why). Put him somewhere you can close a door. A bathroom is fine. Put the crate in there. It doesn't matter if it's not where you will keep the crate eventually. At least you can shut the door.

C. When you let the puppy out either in middle of night or in morning, NEVER let him see you or open crate while he is whining. Wait for the sec of quiet while he's taking a breather and rush in say "Good Quiet" and immediately open the crate and praise - then take outside. This way your dog is only rewarded for being quiet. Eventually he will also learn what quiet means. My dog did and it works great whenever she whines or barks about anything unimportant as an adult, I can say quiet.

D. You should know how long your pup can hold it. You know this because you take him out during the day and how that goes. Also make sure your puppy has playtime before bedtime so he'll start out the night tuckered out. Don't give him water in his crate and very little in the early eve to cut down on peeing. Having something safe to chew on in crate will help him from being so bored in there if he wakes up. It actually helps to write down every time your dog pees or poops. You will see a pattern and it will help you figure things out - but keep in mind as he grows it does adjust (ie. poops less often, etc).

 

Every pup is different. When I got River at 8wks she whined for the first week and a half just because she didn't want to be alone. And I did get up several times a night to take her potty. But with my new 8wk old pup, the 2nd night he went until 5am without needing to potty. Again, his whining woke me up and I only let him see me when he was quiet. He pottied, and went back in crate and I went to bed.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm different, I know. Maybe it's because we kind of live and breathe dogs here, I've gotten much less uptight about this. Also, I don't need my puppy to be crate trained from day one - I have the luxury of easing him into it.

 

My pups sleep with us the first couple of weeks. I figure, pup's already dealing with one stressor - leaving the litter - why make it two or three or many multiples if it's not needed?

 

That way, he gets comfort from me in a natural way (not petting or fussing, but just natural nestlike snuggling), and I feel they gain confidence from that. And I get to know pup's habits and personality without going through the Great First Night Battles. And I have motherly instincts that tell me when pup's sniffing around, needing to go out - I don't mind getting up then. Note: since I started doing this, nightly visits outside are cut in half or more - often no more overnight potty sessions are required at all after the first week (pup about eleven weeks old)!

 

During this time I crate periodically through the day. Matter of fact, no big deal. I follow the same schedule and if pup happens to be whining when I need to get him out, I don't worry about it. Next time, he might not be and he'll still get out. He'll learn the routine and quickly stop trying to create one himself.

 

At sixteen weeks old, pup starts spending the night in his crate in the bedroom. There's usually at least one "big dog" also in a crate, plus all the rest of us, so the only thing that's changed is where he's staying. Many times, pup has already abandoned the bed and joined the big dogs on the floor. I think Zhi may intimidate them.

 

Pup's now usually sleeping through the night, and this doesn't change once he's in the crate. The crate is way no big deal now.

 

The other way works fine too, and many people have no choice because of schedules.

[kajarrel]

I agree, Rebecca. We did much what you describe with our current pup - she slept in bed with us when very young and then was transitioned to crate (usually after waking to be pottied). No crying, no whining . . . Previous pups were NOT crate trained, simply told to go in crate when necessary, when older. But like you, I (or my husband) have the luxury of being home for large parts of the day.

 

All of the dogs now go into the crates periodically of their own accord and have never been a problem at the vet's (benefits/problems cited for crate training early). Aforementioned pup is currently in last week of 6 weeks of crate rest s/p surgery for shoulder OCD. She's been a trooper. Going easily into crate and no fussing while in crate most of day.

 

Dali, I personally wouldn't worry about being "soft" -- the relationship with your dog doesn't build by crating (or being "hard"), it develops through being clear, consistent, fair, yada, yada . . .

 

Kim

[2 Devils]

I had a MAJOR Whiner. I have never had a dog whine so much in my life and so loud. I finally decided to bring the crate back to the bedroom and changed my routine at bedtime. Riot was out the crate until the very last minute. I slept with my hand in the crate door. Once I changed my routine life was much better. Once he fell asleep he was good for about 6 hours. When I let him out to potty (on leash only) he just brought him into the bed with me. Sometimes it was just easier than starting the whole routine over again.

 

A dog can usually hold it longer at bedtime than during the day from what I have found. They say 1 month of age equals 1 hour of bladder control - for some dogs this is about right and others it is not.

[afrancis]

My pups sleep with us the first couple of weeks. I figure, pup's already dealing with one stressor - leaving the litter - why make it two or three or many multiples if it's not needed?

 

That way, he gets comfort from me in a natural way (not petting or fussing, but just natural nestlike snuggling), and I feel they gain confidence from that. And I get to know pup's habits and personality without going through the Great First Night Battles. And I have motherly instincts that tell me when pup's sniffing around, needing to go out - I don't mind getting up then. Note: since I started doing this, nightly visits outside are cut in half or more - often no more overnight potty sessions are required at all after the first week (pup about eleven weeks old)!

 

Rebecca and Kim, I find this really interesting. The first weekend we had Skye, we had to leave town so I was lucky to be able to leave her with friends of mine with a veritable menagerie of animals. That weekend she slept in their bed by their heads and had no accident. I wonder if this was helped by the fact that she was so small she couldn't jump off the bed by herself so was reluctant to leave the nest to go to the bathroom (aka pee on the floor). I would really, in many ways, love to try this with a pup (if and when there is another) since I am a very light sleeper when it comes to having a dog stare at me or whine softly. And your note that this method has actually cut the nightly outings in half or more is fascinating. Maybe much of the peeing through the night is related to the level of anxiety being experienced?

Ailsa

[Laurae]

When Taz was a baby puppy, he slept in a crate that was right next to my bed, which at the time was just a futon on the carpeted floor (I had just moved into the apartment I lived in then). When he whined at night, my first line of defense was to put my fingers between the slats of the wire crate. Sometimes, he really had to go and I had to resign myself to getting dressed and going outside. But most of the time, just having that contact was enough to quiet him back down.

[Mboat7]

I think it helps to keep the crate in the bedroom with you. Dogs are pack animals and they feel more secure near the rest of the pack (which would be you). My dogs sleep in the bedroom in their beds for the most part. One had the master bath with baby gate as his crate for potty training when he was a pup. That way he was still near us but in a small enough area that he would not potty. The master bath is now his safe room for thunderstorms or when the vacuum is out. Once potty trained he was moved to a dog bed in the bedroom, but still frequently will sleep on the tile in the bathroom. My other dog came potty trained plus she jumped the baby gate the first day. They do use crates for traveling in the car and at agility events without any whinning. Of course, they were introduced to the crates slowly. Initially, just a few minutes at a time. And we have a crate that stays in the dinning room with the door removed that my aussie uses for some peace and quiet away from BC boy. They rarely sleep on our bed. However, they do like to play on it so I have a protective fleece blanket I can throw in the wash if needed.

 

 

 

Mel, Bonnie, and the Baxter

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I agree with most previous comments. It seems that having the crate in the room with you at night works out much better. I never really had a problem with Daisy, she took to the crate right away. During the day it took 2 week days, but her first night she slept in a box(I did not have a crate yet), the second with me(I felt HORRIBLE about the box) and the third the crate in my room, she did perfectly. However at about 1 year old, ms.daisy decided that she no longer wished to sleep in her crate at night, 2 nights of BARKING not crying almost drove me insane. I had to go to the pet store and get a puppy gate as she was not trust worthy alone yet. She got a little 4x8 area to sleep and that went well for a while until my room mate moved out and my bf moved in (he works nights). She then moved into the bed room with me so that I could actually sleep at night. I hated being alone at night!

[2 Devils]

I have crate trained all my dogs in different ways. I have to figure out what works for them.

 

My acd - took to it right away but later had issues crated at home with separation anxiety and was given first floor access when she was 1.5 yrs old. Yes we did receive damage to things back then but it was better than losing more teeth. Never woke us up before 6:30am (she still likes to sleep).

 

My toy poodle - he HATED the crate but got used to it within about a week (also never woke us before 6am). Will sleep as late as we want.

 

My borderjack - well hated the crate but like I said we changed things with him. From the beginning all meals were fed in the crate, I crated him periodically when I was home, gave him frozen stuffed kongs, etc... and he hated it. During the day he dealt with it fine it was bedtime where the whining came into play and I did what I said in my earlier post. OK - we started off with putting his crate out in the garage so we could ignore him but we still could here him which is when we switched things up. Now will sleep as late as we want.

 

My bc - never a day of problems - always fed incrate etc... - her only issue arose when she was 7-8 months old and she would wake us at 3-4am and if we did not get up would be pee in the crate. She did not have a UTI or any medical issue at the time. By accident one night we left a light on over the sink and voila no more early morning wake up calls. It seems she needed a night light. Tempe will sleep until 8-9am most mornings if we want.

[FoxgloveBC]

I didnt get Foxy until she was 12 weeks old, so she was able to hold it a little longer than a 6-8 week old puppy so I got lucky. What I did was put the crate in my room by my bed at first. I could distinguish the "I need to go out" or the "I want you to wake up and play with me" whines pretty well. Normally when she would whine would be right when we were settling down to go to bed. If she started whining, I had a 1/4 full water bottle that I would tap on her crate. After about 3 times of this, she quieted down and it really worked like a charm. After a couple of weeks, I was able to move her downstairs where my Sheltie is as well. Since he was right around the corner, she adjusted fairly quickly to this change. Now if she tries to whine, all it takes is a "foxyyyyyy!!" and then she knows its not time yet. She has come a long way! =)

[Samantha J]

I have only quickly read over your answers but with Zac i did much the same as Kim and Laura, he had a cage by my bed and when he awoke i had one of the doors really close but i could just open it enough to slip my hand in. After a few strokes he would settle back down. Then be fine for a while again. If he didn't settle quickly i would take him outside with a lead and then we went straight back to bed. After a few weeks we moved the cage to bottom of the bed where it is now and he actually goes in there to sleep a lot with the door left open now.

 

 

Holly was very different she was in the hallway downstairs, she had a cage but the door was always open and she only cried once i think for about 2minutes and that was it. She had two tags on her collar which jingled and when i heard her if it had been 4hrs or more or she was walking about a lot i got up let her out on lead and then back to bed for me. That worked with her and once she was about 6months or so she slept upstairs on the bed or on her own floor duvet just like she does now.

 

We had planned to put Zac in the kitchen for the first few months like Holly's set up was. He had a poorly paw though as a pup which meant i wanted to keep my eye on his movements and so that is why he had a cage upstairs. I am not personally a cage lover to be honest, i don't leave my two in one when i leave the house but with Zac it has been handy to use one at bedtime.

[dali]

Thank you for all your words of wisdom.

 

We will try moving the crate to the bedroom over the weekend.

 

 

This leads me to another question ....how do you crate them during the daytime ? I want to train him to go in there for a while .....but ...would I have to move the crate downstairs every time ...what do you do ? crate in the bedroom during the day ?? or Buy a second crate for downstairs ?

 

He will never have to be alone for long periods of time , but I want to get him used to the crate so that if needed we can trust him at home for a while .

[2 Devils]

I just moved the crate up and downstairs since the crate was small. You could also just buy a 2nd crate to make life easier.

[bc4pack]

Even though I never leave my guys crated I have skykennels around the house and usually come home

to one or another curled up, soundass asleep! Yeah well, they aren't LGDs

[notailabigail]

I have a horrible Ryan-puppy crating memory! I used to crate him overnight but I put his tiny crate on the bed with me since that seemed to keep him somewhat more quiet (he was a *very* loud puppy). He had to be crated overnight until he was about 4 months since he got up to all kinds of mischief while I was sleeping. But anyway, I also restricted his water in the evening because he would drink and drink and then have to pee all night long.

 

One night when I first got him, he was whining but I was half asleep and ignoring it since it was before the usual 4am pee time. Then I heard the sound of him peeing ... mind you the crate was right next to my head. And *then* he started to drink his pee. I guess he was thirsty. Oh, it was an unpleasant thing to have happen a few inches from my face. I'm glad it was a vari-kennel and not a wire crate! That only happened once but the memory is there forever

[Lizmo]

I'm thankful, Blaze took naturally to his crate. He cried/howled all night the first night home except for 3 hours. He still cries at night when he needs to go out (he goes straight out, then usually comes back to me when done) but since he's getting older and can hold it longer, he only gets up at 6am to go out. So he sleeps now from 9:30ish to 6am. Also, Im still half asleep when I get up and walk down stairs to the back door, so I really don't talk to him much during that night time break.

 

The first week, I would let him sleep in bed with me for a few hours, but now he sleeps in his crate the whole night.

 

That first night that Blaze cried so long, I barely got any sleep, as with the rest of my family. But it was worth it, he doesn't cry any unless he need to use the bathroom. I completely ignored the crying (except I did get up at 12, 4, and 6 to let him outside).

 

I think you're going to need to ignore Dali. It might take a night or a week, but thats the only way he'll learn that even though he cries during the night, you aren't going to come take him out of the crate. Just make sure that you take him to the bathroom like normal even though he's crying. Ohh, and always wait for him to stop crying (even if he's just taking a breath) before you get up to let him out of the crate.

 

Oh, Blaze will be 12 weeks Monday.

 

ETA: About the crate training during the day: Blaze actually did fine (not a peep) during the day in his crate, LOL. I don't know what it was, but he'd just go right to sleep. I did, though, feed him a meal in his crate once. By tossing food in their.

[dali]

I have been thinking. Our previous dog had an extreme separation anxiety problem.

Perhaps we have also become to sensitive to cries and wining.

My heart hurts when I hear Dali cry ... I cannot let him cry all night .

And I also want my son to have a decent night sleep before he heads for school.

 

The past few days we have spend extra time with him , playing and tiring him out in the evening...he slept untill 6am ..yeah !!!!!!

 

I wish I could just let him sleep on the bed ...but hubby will not have it

[Ruger's Dad]

I am one of those softys too. Our dogs always started up in our room in a crate or tied next to the bed. This was done until they could be trusted. Now one sleeps on the floor and the other with me. Dogs are indeed pack animals and should be treated like one of the family.

 

On the weekends I have my son and daughter-in-laws dogs. They are kept crated at night. I don't trust them and three dogs on the bed is a little too much. However, when I first started keeping them I crated them downstairs. They hated it and made a bunch of racket. Now they are in the room with me. They are much better behaved and I don't hear a peep out of them at night any longer. It took a little work and a few "shutups" but it was worth it.

[dali]

we've moved the crate to the bedroom....but the first night was very strange for him. Just after we put him in we received a phonecall. My father-in-law had just passed away...so we jumped in our clothes and put everyone in the car to drive an hour to the hospital.

He stayed in the car on his own for the first time ( we had no choice ) but he did fine.

We spend the night driving around and got home in the early hours.

He did was so tired , he just passed out in the crate.

But last night he had a tough time in the crate and I wonder if our behavior the night before had upset him.

 

Everything will be a bit different this week until after the funeral when things will slowly return to normal for him.

 

I hope it works after a few nights.

[urge to herd]

I'm so sorry about your father in law, what a tragedy. Losing a parent is one of the hardest things in the world.

 

As for Dali, the commotion and your strong emotions last night may well have an unpleasant effect on him. The best thing for him and you is to be as consistent as you can, establish a bedtime routine and stick to it, etc. IF there's anyone else he knows and likes that could come play with/walk him a couple times, that might take the pressure off you humans somewhat.

 

Again, my condolences on your loss.

 

Ruth n the BC3

[dali]

I'm so sorry about your father in law, what a tragedy. Losing a parent is one of the hardest things in the world.

 

As for Dali, the commotion and your strong emotions last night may well have an unpleasant effect on him. The best thing for him and you is to be as consistent as you can, establish a bedtime routine and stick to it, etc. IF there's anyone else he knows and likes that could come play with/walk him a couple times, that might take the pressure off you humans somewhat.

 

Again, my condolences on your loss.

 

Ruth n the BC3

 

thank you for your kind words.

 

Dali will be ok , we have a friend who has offered help.

[dali]

he's spend two night in the crate now....this is how we found it the first morning

 

( we had paper underneath the blanket in case he had an accident)

 

 

but not a peep last night ...so far so good