New BC owner

[jftreefrog]

This is Finn. We haven't even been able to bring him home yet due to moving into our first house. He will be coming home in a week!!!

 

Huck "Finn" will be our first border collie. I have been doing extensive research for the last few months, but until I joined this board I had almost no idea about the large battle between working breeders and the AKC.

 

My breeder says she breeds for herding, but she offered to give me the paperwork to register him with the AKC. Is this bad? It seems from my reading here that it is.

 

I believe I have a reputable breeder, but even if I don't I have already invested money and my heart in Finn and can't turn back now.

 

I am interested in possibly training him in agaility, flyball, or maybe both when he is old enough. Can I do this without registering with the AKC?

 

I am sure I will have lots of questions in the coming months, but these are the biggest right now.

 

Thanks :confused:

[Beth G]

Awwww! How cute!!! Love the nose!!

[Allie+Tess&Kipp]

What an ADORABLE pup!! Congratulations.

 

There are lots of things you can do with your BC that don't involve the AKC (herding, for example! Hee hee!).

 

I don't know very much about flyball, but I think there is an organization for the sport itself and you get a number or something for your dog? So probably no AKC there.

 

For agility, there are a bunch of organizations that have trials. You'd want to see what is nearest to you. For some folks, all that is available is the AKC trials and that is what they do. I think you can get more information on that from http://www.usdaa.com/ and http://www.nadac.com/ and Clean Run's resource page at http://www.cleanrun.com/infocenter.cfm?CFI...FTOKEN=96239943

 

Also, don't forget sport tracking, SAR, rally obedience, obedience, therapy work, freestyle, disc dog competitions, freestyle, tricks, etc.

 

No jumping until your pup is at least a year old, though. Let those little bones grow up.

 

Lots of times you can find puppy agility or pre-agility classes that are no-impact, and those are fun.

 

Allie + Tess & Kipp

http://weebordercollie.com

[bc friend]

Most of us prefer not to support(financially or otherwise) the AKC because we believe that overall it will be bad for the breed and its ability to do the job it was originally intended for.

 

He is a lovely pup and you've already gotten some great suggestions for having fun with him. I would also recommend puppy kindergarten (obedience).

 

Welcome to the board!

[Root Beer]

I am interested in possibly training him in agaility, flyball, or maybe both when he is old enough. Can I do this without registering with the AKC?

You absolutely can. AKC doesn't do flyball, so that's not an issue.

 

And there are lots of venues that do agility.

[Dixie_Girl]

Welcome to you and your awesome pup!

Stay away from AKC! They suck the inteligence out of you and your dog! LOL

[Beth G]

Originally posted by bc friend:

Most of us prefer not to support(financially or otherwise) the AKC because we believe that overall it will be bad for the breed and its ability to do the job it was originally intended for.

 

HEAR! HEAR!

[AK dog doc]

What a cutie-pants! I have a Finn also - plain old B&W BC (although a pin-up boy, since a client of mine is a professional photographer and has gotten him in a few calendars.)

 

My dog is ABCA registered, but since he is neutered I could get an ILP number and do AKC stuff with him - but I won't, because like many other members here I prefer not to give my money to the AKC, as I feel they pose a threat to the survival of the BC as a working stock dog. However, by all means DO enjoy agility and dog sports or whatever else you find you like to do together... I'd add lure coursing to the list, since my Finn likes that.

[IronHorse]

Hello and welcome to the BC boards

 

Your pup is adorable

That being said I had a few questions.

 

My breeder says she breeds for herding

Was this just a statement made by the breeder?

Or did she offer any proof to back it up?

 

I believe I have a reputable breeder

What information about this breeder caused you to reach this decision?

 

 

How did you find this paticular breeder?

 

How many other puppies did this breeder have for you to choose from?

 

What were the 3 most important reasons that you picked this paticular pup?

 

What are the 3 most important reasons you chose this paticular breed of dog?

 

What was the price/conditions that this breeder charged you to obtain this pup?

 

Sincerly

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

If I'm not mistaken, your pup is already registered or will be registered with the AKC, just not in your name, or is supposed to be. AKC only allows litter registration from AKC registered parents (I'm right, yes?). Anyway, my point is that you don't have to hurry about a decision at this point because either way you have the lifetime of your new dog to make up your mind. Better to err on the side of caution.

 

As to your specific question, flyball has nothing to do with AKC registry - NAFA issues its own racing numbers called CRNs. Registry, breed, whatever, doesn't matter - you just request one, pay the fee, and go race with your team!

 

I know many people who don't or can't do AKC agility and still are very active in the sport. The AKC won't allow mixed breeds or certain unaccepted rare breeds, to compete, so these people have plenty of fun in other venues that are more welcoming and sport-centered.

 

You don't have to worry that not registering AKC will shut you out of the fun. You'll have plenty of options with your new pup. Not to mention involvement in herding - you live in a great area for that, down the road!

[Meg's mum]

jftreefrog...the issue goes beyond AKC vs. anti-AKC. AKC is an institutionalized and culturally supported form of what most of the members of this board are trying to prevent:

 

- The breeding of Border Collies from non open - trial proven parents.

 

A second important issue related to but not necessarily the consequence of even well intentioned non AKC breeders is:

 

- The outcome of a dog abandonned to an overwhelmed rescue system because of breeders that do not take ownership of the placement process a) to insure the greatest probability of success and to provide a rehome for a failed placement.

[jftreefrog]

Thanks everyone for your great responses to my questions.

 

Was this just a statement made by the breeder?

Or did she offer any proof to back it up?

This was a statement from the breeder. Unfortunately, I did not know enough or was smart enough to ask for proof. I have since found out that she doesn't have any.

 

How did you find this paticular breeder?

Internet. She is registered with ABCA.

 

How many other puppies did this breeder have for you to choose from?

She had 5 pups in the litter and a blue male and Finn were available.

 

What were the 3 most important reasons that you picked this paticular pup?

He was laid back, yet affectionate. He was not jittery like the other male pup. He would play with me, leave to play alone, and return to play with me again. Although, coloring doesn't matterto the breed, I think he is gorgeous.

 

What are the 3 most important reasons you chose this paticular breed of dog?

Although this is my first experience with Border Collies, I have done quite a bit of reading on this and many other breeds. (Unfortunately, it appears I didn't read the right material on picking a breeder)

I found that I have a propensity for the hearding breeds(farm raised, myself). I was deciding between ACDs, BCs, and Welsh Corgis.

I decided on border collies because I work from home, was not intimidated by the time constraints, and wanted a challenging, intelligent companion. I am also hoping that I enjoy the breed to a point where I become more involved in its future.

 

Unfortunately, it appears that Finn may not be the best choice for aiding the breed's future, but he will be a member of my family regardless of his heritage. Who knows, we may be able to prove his worth to the breed together.

 

What was the price/conditions that this breeder charged you to obtain this pup?

$400, puppy contract, I had to agree to return him if I was unable to care for him at any time in the future.

 

Unfortunately, this is where I was fooled. Every thing I had read about choosing a good breeder said that these things indicate a good breeder. Unfortunately, I had not discovered this forum before it was too late.

 

Finn IS the dog for me. If BCs turn out to be the breed for me, then I will use this experience to make a better decision for my next BC.

 

Thanks again, everyone for your help.

[IronHorse]

jftreefrog,

Thank you for answering my questions so throughly.

Unfortunatly there are more then a few breeders who use the various registries as means to assist them to sell dogs.

I have had my personal share of dealing with such breeders but I won't bother you with the details other then to say it was a very educational and eye opening experince for me.

 

I have BCs pretty much for the same reason as you, I work at home,have alot of land and love a dog with brains.

 

And by the way I agree with you that Finn is an absolutely Gorgeous pup.

[Joe Anne]

jftreefrog, sounds like you did your homework. We can't always learn everything all the time. Finn is beautiful and I am sure you will not be sorry for choosing a BC. Coming on these boards is the single best thing you can do now. There is a wealth of information, experience and plenty of advice to go around. If I were to give you only one single word of advice, that would be "training". Start as soon as you get him home. By the way how old is he? he looks really young. BC's are very, very intelligent and often will out think you! Keeping that in mind, do your best to try to stay a least 1 step ahead of Finn, you must establish that you are the "boss". In the training field we BC trainers say, "you show a Border Collie once, then she/he decided whether they want to do it or not!" LOL..

But seriously, very basic obedience is a must. Check around to find a trainer that trains using positive training methods. Such training as agility, flyball etc.,that include jumping, will come later, after he is between 1 to 1 1/2 yrs. old to let the little legs grow properly.

A couple of ???

1. Is he your 1st dog?

2. Do you plan on crate training? (highly reccomended)

3. Do you have other dogs or small children?

(I ask this because first introductions are very important.)

I too strongly advise staying away from AKC registration. If your breeder is registered with the ABCA she should send in the papers to register you and Finn with them. I think the rules changed from sending in the registration papers yourself ????, which I did in 2004. Someone on these boards can probably speak to that better than I.

Welcome and enjoy your new pup!

ps... love your sign in name!

[IronHorse]

If your breeder is registered with the ABCA she should send in the papers to register you and Finn with them. I think the rules changed from sending in the registration papers yourself ????, which I did in 2004. Someone on these boards can probably speak to that better than I.

I believe what has changed since 2004 is that as of Jan 2005 the breeder is required to register the litter.

Any person/persons aquiring any of the pups are then required to submit the approperiate registration forms if they desire to register the dog in their name with the ABCA.

[nancy in AZ]

You've got yourself a gorgeous little pup there. We all started out at the beginning of the learning curve at some point, so don't beat yourself up over whether or not this breeder was the right one to do business with. It's obvious you made a thoughtful decision and this wasn't an impulse purchase. The important thing is your obvious willingness to educate yourself in order to make a great home for Finn. Congrats on your new boy.

[jftreefrog]

Thanks everyone. I guess I was beating myself up just a bit.

 

Joe Anne, thanks I've had the nickname for over 10 years. Goes back to the submarine days.

 

As to your questions about Finn. He was born 4/13/06.

He is my second dog as an adult(kinda funny since I'll be 31 in 12 days). We had many dogs growing up and I wanted to wait until we were out of apartment living.

Unfortunately, we adopted Mona(Bassett mix) several months back and had to put her to sleep three weeks later due to distemper.

We are definately crate training and clicker training.

We only have a cat. No other dogs or kids(although we hope it won't be too long for the later).

 

I have already greatly enjoyed the discussions here and find myself checking them regularly for updates.

Thanks again everyone.

[juliepoudrier]

Originally posted by IronHorse:

I believe what has changed since 2004 is that as of Jan 2005 the breeder is required to register the litter.

Any person/persons aquiring any of the pups are then required to submit the approperiate registration forms if they desire to register the dog in their name with the ABCA.

IronHorse,

Are you sure about that? Lark's breeder waited till she had the appropriate information on each pup/owner in the litter and then sent the registration in, with each new owner listed as owner, and presumably with each pup duly named. I haven't received Lark's papers yet, but I expect that my name will already be on them. We'll see, I guess!

 

J.

[IronHorse]

Julie,

No I am not 100% sure about it.

perhaps Eileen or someone who is 100% sure can chime in and clarify it.

[laurie etc]

Originally posted by juliepoudrier:

quote:

---

Originally posted by IronHorse:

I believe what has changed since 2004 is that as of Jan 2005 the breeder is required to register the litter.

Any person/persons aquiring any of the pups are then required to submit the approperiate registration forms if they desire to register the dog in their name with the ABCA.

IronHorse,

Are you sure about that? Lark's breeder waited till she had the appropriate information on each pup/owner in the litter and then sent the registration in, with each new owner listed as owner, and presumably with each pup duly named. J.

Julie /Ironhorse - you are both right- - If the breeder waited til after the pups were sold, then submitted the ABCA application with owners names and puppy names; the set of registration papers will come back to the breeder with individual new owner names and dog names already listed, and the breeder just mails them out to each new owner - no additional charge. Or, the breeder can initially register all the pups in his own

name, then give the papers "signed over" to the new owners and they send in the additonal $8.00 fee and the original papers to change over the dog to their ownership. Costs twice as much that way, but the papers are available earlier.

[Jodi]

On the website, it says:

 

"REGISTRATION POLICY CHANGED

 

On November 16, 2004, the Board of Directors voted to change the existing policy of the Association for accepting registration applications. Effective for pups born on January 1, 2005 and later, all applications must be submitted by the breeder of the litter. Applications for entire litters, partial litters, or individual dogs must be submitted to the association by the breeder."

 

When I bought Kiva in December, the breeder waited until she had all the buyers' information, and then sent the papers in. When I got her papers, it already had all my information on there.

 

But ... I wonder if you could register a litter as the breeder, and just have "Pup 1" "Pup 2" "Pup 3" in place of the names, and then let the buyers pay a few bucks to transfer ownership or whatever.

 

Anyone know?

 

Jodi

[Jodi]

Oops. Thanks Laurie. Looks like we posted at the same time.

 

Jodi

[laurie etc]

Actually, Jodi, I think the breeder can send in for ABCA papers and leave the name as _________ and the papers will all come back with no name at all.